Consensus on what to do with Russ Ortiz

[devilfan02]

After todays outing by Ortiz (1.2 IP, 5 BB's, 4 H's, 4 ER's), it is apparent that he can no longer remain in our rotation. We still have a chance to win the NL West so the Ortiz problem must be fixed. I can't remember the last quality start he has had and he continues to get worse each time out. What's even more frustrating is that his miserable starts completely run down our much improved bullpen. Grimsley had to pitch 3 innings today and because of it won't be available for the Padres series. What may be the worst part of this whole situation is that I don't think he can be effective as a reliever. He walks TONS AND TONS of batters and is in trouble every single inning. I have many friends that refuse to watch Dback games when Ortiz takes the mound. How do you think Byrnes should handle this issue??? Here are some of my options.....

A) Put Ortiz in the pen. Melvin could move Cruz to the rotation and see how that works. As I said above, I think Ortiz is simply a horrible pitcher and won't find any success either as a starter or a reliever. Plus, Cruz going to the rotation would hurt our bullpen but I guess thats the price we have to pay.

B) Bring Nippert up. Not sure if I like this either. I recently watched a AAA game in which Nippert started against Colorado Springs and he didn't look too good. I'm unaware of how he has done in his other starts this year but I thknk he still needs more time (his control looked very shaky in the game I saw).

C) Trade for another pitcher in the coming months. You can nearly gaurantee that Zito will be traded and extended and won't be available on this coming years FA market. IMO, his price tag for the trade is way too high(Beane wants 3 elite prospects) so we'll have to look at other SP options. If we are still competitive in the weak NL West it might be a good idea to make a deal for a young gun.

D) Simply cut him and eat the contract. Not sure of the ramifications of this move but it could be coming soon. When is enough enough?

Overall, I think Byrnes/Melvin need to put an end to this crap. They should give Ortiz one to two more starts MAX and then make their decision. If this crap continues, put him in the bullpen and give Nippert or Cruz their shot. If Ortiz is good on the pen, great. If not, then cut him and suffer the consequences

 

[AZZenny]

I agree, maybe put Cruz in the rotation. Give Ortiz a shot at the bullpen, and if he pulls a Bruney there, just freakin' cut him. No use throwing good money after bad, so to speak -- bad enough we have to pay him, we shouldn't have to watch him.

If we make room by dumping Ortiz, I'd first bring up Kevin Jarvis from Tucson for a shot. 4 starts, 3.00 ERA. He looked pretty good this ST -- a heck of a lot better than Ortiz did.

We may also have to decide what to do with Vargas, I suspect. --

 

[Kolo]

If we bring up another pitcher to replace Ortiz in the rotation, we'll have to send another down, and I can't imagine who it might be (Mulholland). I'd imagine there's some way to release him from the 25 man roster, let him clear waivers, and reassign him to Tucson--but I don't really know. Maybe somebody can help.

Also, Nippert missed his last start (three or four days ago), and I haven't heard why. Anybody know?

 

[Forrestham]

At his point they don't have a whole lot of options. They are paying that bloated contract and we need to watch him pitch. The problem they have is he needs to pitch well to consider trading him. Can he go to Tucson? I would give him 2 more starts. If no improvement he can go to the bullpen. If all else fails they may have to just cut him

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Stick him in the bullpen. Hopefully, they get ANY kind of return on his contract, because as of now it's been wasted money.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I braved the Dodger faithful today, to take my wife to her 1st D'Back game...Oh my, what a nightmare! Ortiz must go...just cut him...don't bother with the bullpen, he'll just stink that up, too. It was so sad to see the players in the field today...I was about 50 ft from Gonzo and he looked so deflated everytime Ortiz gave up another hit or walk...It was just crap! This team deserves better! Oh, and while we're debating Ortiz, Shawn Green needs to go to the bench and become a role player and late inning defender! 'Nuff said!

 

[devilfan02]

Oh, and while we're debating Ortiz, Shawn Green needs to go to the bench and become a role player and late inning defender! 'Nuff said!

Exactly, nuff said!

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Also, Nippert missed his last start (three or four days ago), and I haven't heard why. Anybody know?

Knee stiffness, it supposedly isnt very serious as they expect him to make his next scheduled start.

 

[BC867]

Ortiz' quote in today's Republic is priceless.

It was just one of those days where you hate to say you just didn't have it today.

One of those days?

Just didn't have it today?

Not being able to pitch at the Major League level is one thing.

Lying to yourself, and thinking that the fans are gullible enought to believe it, are insults to his intelligence.

Let's go, BoMel. Take charge.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

It's simple. Juan Cruz should take Ortiz's spot in the rotaion sooner rather than later. Let's not forget Cruz was once an elite starting pitching prospect and since we have exactly none of those anywhere close to being ready, we might as well give the guy a shot.

 

[Espo]

Knee stiffness, it supposedly isnt very serious as they expect him to make his next scheduled start.

He threw a bullpen session after yesterdays Sidewinders game here in Tucson. And Kevin Jarvis looked great on Saturday. He went 7 innings giving up 2 runs 1 earned. He deserves to get the call up and take Ortiz's spot. He has been very solid this year.

 

[FinleyLover]

Well I think that we should just cut our losses with him as well. Why would he do any better in the pen than starting. Hie gives up runs/hits/walks from the first inning.
I say cut the losses and start looking for his replacement. If BoMel is any kind of manager, he has talked to Ortiz already and given him some sort of warning or heads up. Surely this wouldn't come as any suprise to Ortiz.
Jarvis looked pretty good and I was kinda surprised he went to Tucson.

 

[devilfan02]

Supposedly Ortiz has been sent to the bullpen! My friend called and said Thom announced on air before tonights game. If true, it's a great move and will give someone who can actually pitch a shot at our rotation

 

[Espo]

Down on the Farm

Edgar Gonzalez threw a complete game 5 hitter, giving up 1 run, earned, striking out 6, walking no one and throwing 103 pitches in Tucson 7-1 win. His fastball looked good and his location was pin point tonight. Quentin went 4-5 and Chris Young had two doubles and a single in the game.

 

[devilfan02]

Edgar Gonzalez threw a complete game 5 hitter, giving up 1 run, earned, striking out 6, walking no one and throwing 103 pitches in Tucson 7-1 win. His fastball looked good and his location was pin point tonight. Quentin went 4-5 and Chris Young had two doubles and a single in the game.

Good to see Young start coming around, Q's up to his usual form, and Edgar is a pleasant surprise. I still think I'd rather see Jarvis or Cruz in the rotation before Gonzalez but that's still great news! Lets sweep this series!

 

[FinleyLover]

Yes Thom announced it just before the game. I knew when he said that they had a major announcement to make that it was probably about Ortiz. I suspect that they will let him throw a few innings in the pen, and if he still struggles, he may be looking at unemployment for the first time in years (although with an extremely large paycheck to go along with it).

We can't afford to leave him in, even in the pen, if he continues at this rate. Something's gotta give...

 

[Espo]

Good to see Young start coming around, Q's up to his usual form, and Edgar is a pleasant surprise. I still think I'd rather see Jarvis or Cruz in the rotation before Gonzalez but that's still great news! Lets sweep this series!

I would agree. I think Jarvis or Cruz deserves the shot but its nice to see Edgar on. By the way Nippert will make his next start tomorrow i believe. When talked to during batting practice today he said his knee is ok.

 

[green machine]

Great news about Edgar, so inconsistent, but he seems to have great stuff.

 

[devilfan02]

Ortiz taken out of rotation
Starter has 1 win in past 16 outings

Bob McManaman
The Arizona Republic
Apr. 25, 2006 12:00 AM
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SAN DIEGO - After earning just one victory in his past 16 starts dating to last season and working only 14 1/3 innings in starting 0-3 this year, Russ Ortiz has been banished to the bullpen by the Diamondbacks.

For how long?

Apparently, for as long as it takes.

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"This is a results-based industry," manager Bob Melvin said. "We've given it some time. We just don't feel like we're getting the results."

Ortiz wasn't immediately available for reaction to the news. After being told of the decision by Melvin, he participated in regular pregame workouts and when returning to the clubhouse at Petco Park, he met again privately with Melvin and General Manager Josh Byrnes in Melvin's office.

The door stayed shut for quite a long time.

After the game, Ortiz showered, dressed and left before reporters could talk to him.

"I feel for him because he's worked so hard," second baseman Orlando Hudson said. "I've seen him win 18 games. . . . I've still got faith in Russ and I know he does, too."

It's a gutsy decision by the Diamondbacks, who are acknowledging that signing Ortiz to a four-year, $33 million deal a year ago might have been an expensive mistake.

Ortiz was 5-11 with a 6.89 ERA in 2005 and was looking just like that same pitcher again, sporting a 6.91 ERA with little command (13 walks) and not much velocity (most of his pitches have been in the 87-88 mph range).

"He's walked the tightrope most of his career," Melvin said, referring to Ortiz's penchant for having to be ultra fine with his pitches and not relying on power.

With a day off Thursday, Arizona will skip Ortiz's spot in the rotation on Saturday and start Brandon Webb, Monday's starter in San Diego, in San Francisco. Ortiz won't be scheduled for his next start after that either, Melvin said.

"He's out of the rotation," the manager said.

"We have time to figure this thing out," he added. "We're going to analyze this thing, (evaluate if it is) mechanical, health. There are a lot of things we've got to think about, and we're trying to do the best thing for us and for Russ."

Melvin said he isn't planning on sticking with a four-man rotation beyond this week, meaning a roster move of some sort likely will have to take place. The team could consider using Juan Cruz as a starter, but Byrnes said the hard-throwing right-hander is too valuable in relief.

The top candidates to replace Ortiz in the rotation are right-handers Dustin Nippert, Kevin Jarvis, Edgar Gonzalez and Enrique Gonzalez (no relation), who form four-fifths of the rotation at Triple-A Tucson.

"We want to get through the next three days or so, and then we'll reassess how our staff is put together," Byrnes said.

Though Ortiz initially took the news like "a professional," Byrnes said, it wasn't known how well the second meeting went inside Melvin's office.

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-Some pretty blunt statements made by Melvin. I didn't know he had it in him to be straightforward and honest as opposed to his usual optomistic bullcrap. I would like to see Cruz get a shot in the rotation. I think our pen will be just fine wothout him. Has anyone else noticed that we haven't used Aquino much lately?? Kinda wierd

 

[Espo]

I hope it Jarvis. He is a veteran guy and you know what you will get with him. Edgar is hit or miss, Enrique is still too young and you don't want to stunt the growth of Nippert if he comes up and gets shelled. He should be a mid to late season call up.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

I hope it Jarvis. He is a veteran guy and you know what you will get with him. Edgar is hit or miss, Enrique is still too young and you don't want to stunt the growth of Nippert if he comes up and gets shelled. He should be a mid to late season call up.

I'm honestly not too fond of Jarvis... It seems that he's nothing more than just one of those AAAA career Minor Leaguers.... He had one decent year for the Padres as a starter in '01, but absolutely nothing other than that.. which is pretty much why he's content on pitching for AAA team at the moment opposed to being on a Major League roster now...

However, I do agree that the Dbacks dont have too many other options now.. Daigle (aka Mr. Finch) struggled as a starter in '04..I wish Cruz would get a chance, but hasnt started at the ML level and it might be asking him too much at this time... Bill Murphy has struggled at Tucson... Perhaps Edgar Gonzalez should be taken into consideration?

Also.. it appears that Vargas might be pitching himself out of the rotation as well, so soon the Dbacks will have 2 voids to fill.... Or would they actually consider making a bold risk taking move and promoting eiter Micah Owings or Ross Ohlendorf from Double-A? Because there arent any good quality pitchers available except for Roger Clemens, but I obviously know that Dbacks wouldnt pursue him.....

Also.. if the Dbacks did decide to promote someone from AAA or AA, who would be removed from the 25-man roster? Would they just simply put Ortiz on the DL and claim he has some injury that is causing his ineffectiveness? Or perhaps they'll send Andy Green down.. it shall become interesting very quickly....

 

[Espo]

The problem with Edgar is he didn't get any work in spring because of the WBC and i think only pitched 3 and 2/3 innings in the WBC. Yesterday was the first solid start and going into yesterday he had an above 5 ERA. His control was there yesterday but hadn't been in his previous starts. I would be hesitant to call him up especially seeing as he usually implodes when he goes up to the bigs. I think he needs at least 2 or 3 more starts in Tucson before he would be ready.

 

[BC867]

Ortiz' quote in yesterday's Republic was

It was just one of those days where you hate to say you just didn't have it today.

Today he's saying that he's angry that he's being removed from the starting rotation because he's had

a bad couple of games

Luckily management is giving him the dose of reality that he's lacking.

 

[IndyDevil]

A "couple of bad games" ?!?! Jeebus, what is that moron smoking?? He has been a total bust since signing with the D'Backs last year, and we should applaud Byrnes & Co. for finally yanking him out of the starting rotation!!

I would like to see Nippert get a chance in the rotation, but all I can think about is what happened to Mr. Finch in his debut against St Louis - - ugh!

 

[AZZenny]

How NOT to win fans and influence General Managers.
This is SOOOO Albie Lopez!

What does he not get about two starts lasting less than 3 innings each? 'Hey, It's called a START,' insisted Ortiz, 'not a complete game.' (in the time-honored New York press fashion, this is a 'paraphrase and interpretation of what he would have said, if he'd said it.')

They offer him an all-expense paid summer vacation in lovely South Tucson, and he thinks he'll hang around the clubhouse and bullpen and sulk instead. Give him two weeks max of that, and send his arse packing.

SAN DIEGO - A day after being removed from the starting rotation and placed in the bullpen, struggling pitcher Russ Ortiz could be headed for yet another move, this one to the disabled list.

His second-to-last outing abbreviated because of a cramp in his right calf, Ortiz might be best served in the Diamondbacks' eyes by going on the DL and working out his problems at Triple-A Tucson during the course of a multiweek rehabilitation assignment.

Ortiz, however, would have to agree to such a move and upon making his first public comments about the situation on Tuesday, that probably isn't going to happen. Ortiz said he was "surprised" and "confused," among other things, and thinks he was judged too quickly.

"They're basing it on two starts," said Ortiz, who is 0-3 with a 6.91 ERA in four starts, the last of which saw him pitch only 1 2/3 innings Sunday at Dodger Stadium. He said he had been making progress with pitching adjustments in recent side sessions and never saw this coming.

"I never claimed to be anything other than the type of pitcher that I am, which is to go out and battle as hard as I can to get a win. And it worked," said Ortiz, who went 5-11 for Arizona last year but has a 108-74 career record. "Everybody wants to harp on last year, but I was gone for the heart of the year, hurt."

Ortiz, who missed two months with a rib injury in 2005, isn't sure whether he will make it back to the rotation. Triple-A Tucson pitcher Kevin Jarvis appears to be the top candidate to replace him.

"Right now, and this is as honest as I've ever been, I'm not happy with the situation. I'm not happy having to go through this," Ortiz said. "There are a lot of things I don't have answers for."

He later added: "I realize I haven't gotten off to the greatest start in the world, but am I the only one (struggling) in the league? No."