Dammit Bibby

[Errntknght]

why'd you have go help out the Heat.

I was afraid he'd be just what the Heat needed - steady, smart, and good 3pt shot. He's never been a huge assist guy but he doesn't have to have the ball in his hands all the time to make a goodly number. Damn, his assist/TO ratio has been great the last three years - over 3/1. I don't remember him being a great defender but I seem to recall him being quite tenacious.

His first game with the Heat was okay but in the one today he went 5/5 from the field and from 3pt range, 4 assists, 0 turnovers in 25 minutes. Chalmers played 23.

 

[Michael]

why'd you have go help out the Heat.

I was afraid he'd be just what the Heat needed - steady, smart, and good 3pt shot. He's never been a huge assist guy but he doesn't have to have the ball in his hands all the time to make a goodly number. Damn, his assist/TO ratio has been great the last three years - over 3/1. I don't remember him being a great defender but I seem to recall him being quite tenacious.

His first game with the Heat was okay but in the one today he went 5/5 from the field and from 3pt range, 4 assists, 0 turnovers in 25 minutes. Chalmers played 23.

Good on him! I'd much rather see the Heat winning the title than the Celtics or Lakers (I can't believe I don't automatically include the Spurs...).

 

[ninous26]

Yeah, I knew he was still good. Everyone that I talked to and mentioned him coming here said he was expired and garbage.

 

[Chaplin]

Yeah, I knew he was still good. Everyone that I talked to and mentioned him coming here said he was expired and garbage.

He is garbage. Just because he has one good game for the Heat doesn't make him worth much. He was never going to come here anyway. He's yet another of those vets riding shirttails to a championship.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He is garbage. Just because he has one good game for the Heat doesn't make him worth much. He was never going to come here anyway. He's yet another of those vets riding shirttails to a championship.

Yeah, I don't know about garbage but he is a shadow of the player he used to be. He wouldn't have helped us and I doubt he would have even considered coming here.

Steve

 

[ninous26]

I don't see how you can call someone garbage when he had a perfect game that included 5-5 3pt shooting.. You calling a fluke on that?

 

[Chaplin]

I don't see how you can call someone garbage when he had a perfect game that included 5-5 3pt shooting.. You calling a fluke on that?

Yep. What in his recent history tells you it's not a fluke?

 

[Errntknght]

He is garbage. Just because he has one good game for the Heat doesn't make him worth much. He was never going to come here anyway. He's yet another of those vets riding shirttails to a championship.

He's not what we needed and he's not going to give anyone 20 points in 38 minutes any more but thats not what the Heat need, Chap. They need a vet who can nail 3pters if unattended and will step up when its called for - make the solid play. I bet he becomes their finisher at PG and I'll also bet they finish games stronger because of it - something thats been fairly weak for them so far. Given your knowledge of the game, you calling him garbage is a fine endorsement.

 

[Chaplin]

He's not what we needed and he's not going to give anyone 20 points in 38 minutes any more but thats not what the Heat need, Chap. They need a vet who can nail 3pters if unattended and will step up when its called for - make the solid play. I bet he becomes their finisher at PG and I'll also bet they finish games stronger because of it - something thats been fairly weak for them so far. Given your knowledge of the game, you calling him garbage is a fine endorsement.

I went to school with the guy--he lived in my dorm as a freshman. And he's as dumb as a box of rocks. His skills are highly diminished, so when he goes 5-5 from 3 in a single game, excuse me for not jumping up and down and clamoring for him to sign with the Suns.

Bibby is not a clutch performer, and this performance excepted, he's not a reliable guy. He simply isn't. Is he better than Chalmers? Sure, I'll concede that it's debatable. But to sing his praises is simply overreacting to a rare good performance. Patrick Patterson had a career night against us, and while he's a nice player potential-wise, you don't see multiple teams clamoring to sign him. And Bibby doesn't even have the "potential" tag in his favor.

 

[ninous26]

I was going to say we but I guess I'll speak for myself.. I see your point man, but no one is raging about this guy like crazy.. Its more of an aww, damn.. Coulda had him type thing.. He's nowhere near as good as he used to be but I'm sure he's better than brooks, and like you already said. Better than chalmers.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was going to say we but I guess I'll speak for myself.. I see your point man, but no one is raging about this guy like crazy.. Its more of an aww, damn.. Coulda had him type thing.. He's nowhere near as good as he used to be but I'm sure he's better than brooks, and like you already said. Better than chalmers.

Wow, I sure hope you're wrong. If Brooks (once he fully heals and learns our offense) isn't MUCH better than Bibby is currently I'll be hugely disappointed in our recent trade. I'm not saying you're wrong but the Brooks that I watched play in college had a lot of potential and I'm still holding out hope we'll eventually get to see that guy.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

He is garbage. Just because he has one good game for the Heat doesn't make him worth much. He was never going to come here anyway. He's yet another of those vets riding shirttails to a championship.

He has been a 15 and 5 guy for most of his career. That is garbage? What scale are you using? His skills might be diminishing but in his defense he has had some injury problems in 09-10. He struggled in 09-10 season but still managed 9 and 4.

Since then he has had spotty minutes for whatever reason but when Atlanta upped his minutes towards 30 again, he got back up to 9 and 4.

Not saying this guy is a star and I can't speak to his intelligence. However, with the buckets of PG's in this league that can't pass, most teams would take 4 assists per game with their PG throwing in 10 points.

If the Suns had the opporunity to get that kind of back up "garbage" to backup Nash, they would have in a heart beat. Especially, when comparing the real garbage the Suns have had in the Nash era backing him up.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Its just one game and he looked like a corpse his first two, but just the same there is only one reponse to this thread:

 

[Chaplin]

He has been a 15 and 5 guy for most of his career. That is garbage? What scale are you using? His skills might be diminishing but in his defense he has had some injury problems in 09-10. He struggled in 09-10 season but still managed 9 and 4.

Since then he has had spotty minutes for whatever reason but when Atlanta upped his minutes towards 30 again, he got back up to 9 and 4.

Not saying this guy is a star and I can't speak to his intelligence. However, with the buckets of PG's in this league that can't pass, most teams would take 4 assists per game with their PG throwing in 10 points.

If the Suns had the opporunity to get that kind of back up "garbage" to backup Nash, they would have in a heart beat. Especially, when comparing the real garbage the Suns have had in the Nash era backing him up.

Ignoring context. You can't spout career numbers and say he would be a good addition because of them. Vince Carter should teach you that.

 

[BC867]

It is interesting that in our blowout loss to Orlando, our starting backcourt of Brooks and Carter had 30 points and 10 assists in 54 minutes vs. their 24 points and 6 assists in 56 minutes.

Our bench backcourt had 16 points and 4 assists in 44 minutes vs. their 17 points and 5 assists in 48 minutes.

There appears to be some overlap minutes at Small Forward. However the blowout did not occur in our backcourt, even with Nash out, Brooks moving up and Dowdell stepping in.

The blowout occurred among the starting front courts -- big time.

Our starting front court of Lopez, Hill and Warrick had 13 points and 15 rebounds in 68 minutes vs. their 56 points and 28 rebounds in 92 minutes.

A minus 55 points and 13 rebounds for the Suns front court starters.

With Nash out in the back court (one of two positions) and Frye out in the front court (one of three positions), the reasons for the blowout are obvious. Weak at starting Center and weak at backup Power Forward in a fill-in capacity.

It took the Suns all these years to have two legitimate backup Point Guards ready for situations such as Nash's injury -- which, in effect, wore him down over those years. How long will it take to staff the two power position less-minutes-per-game players?

And will it take its toll on Gortat and Frye's futures as it did on Nash's?

I'm trying to be very objective here. Our back court was not responsible for today's blowout.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ignoring context. You can't spout career numbers and say he would be a good addition because of them. Vince Carter should teach you that.

Did I say that? No. You can't compare every player's situation to Carter. Hill should tell you that.

I was simply disputing your contention that Bibby was garbage simply because he is one year removed from his career average. I think you should see if given a consistant opportunity he could come close to being the same player or at least be able to contribute.

Vince Carter has not been that player for how many seasons? He has consistantly eroded since 2007. The past 3 seasons has slowed considerably. Not even the same situation. Carter was a premiere scorer at one point in his career and "the man". There is no question he has not been that guy for YEARS.

Bibby on the other hand is only one year removed from his usual self and has shown signs of still being that player. If your saying the Suns wouldn't take a chance on a player like Bibby yet not take a chance on a player like Bibby.........I would be surprised.

Timing is everything. I have no doubt the Suns would have made a run on Bibby had they not already made the move for Brooks. Not that he would have come here but they would have done it IMO if they were still looking.

 

[Chaplin]

Did I say that? No. You can't compare every player's situation to Carter. Hill should tell you that.

I was simply disputing your contention that Bibby was garbage simply because he is one year removed from his career average. I think you should see if given a consistant opportunity he could come close to being the same player or at least be able to contribute.

Vince Carter has not been that player for how many seasons? He has consistantly eroded since 2007. The past 3 seasons has slowed considerably. Not even the same situation. Carter was a premiere scorer at one point in his career and "the man". There is no question he has not been that guy for YEARS.

Bibby on the other hand is only one year removed from his usual self and has shown signs of still being that player. If your saying the Suns wouldn't take a chance on a player like Bibby yet not take a chance on a player like Bibby.........I would be surprised.

Timing is everything. I have no doubt the Suns would have made a run on Bibby had they not already made the move for Brooks. Not that he would have come here but they would have done it IMO if they were still looking.

You still quoted career stats to support your argument, I was just pointing out that doing that is flawed.

 

[Errntknght]

I went to school with the guy--he lived in my dorm as a freshman. And he's as dumb as a box of rocks. His skills are highly diminished, so when he goes 5-5 from 3 in a single game, excuse me for not jumping up and down and clamoring for him to sign with the Suns.

Bibby is not a clutch performer, and this performance excepted, he's not a reliable guy. He simply isn't. Is he better than Chalmers? Sure, I'll concede that it's debatable. But to sing his praises is simply overreacting to a rare good performance. Patrick Patterson had a career night against us, and while he's a nice player potential-wise, you don't see multiple teams clamoring to sign him. And Bibby doesn't even have the "potential" tag in his favor.

Well, thats a fair excuse for not being able to objectively judge Bibby's value to the Heat - knowing him personally, I mean. I just base it on what he does on the floor. Overall intelligence is not that valuable to most athletes - sheer animal cunning is better. He's probably smarter than a wolf or fox or even a cat.

You assumed that his one good game was what I based my post on but you should know me better than that - someone who didn't know squat about statistics might do that. His 5/5 from 3 caught my eye I must admit but I did a fairly thorough statistical analysis of his career trends before I decided to post. The key things I saw were that his TO's are falling, not climbing, his assist to TO ratio is climbing (over 3:1 the last 3 years) and his 3pt shooting is up the last 3 years - .435 this year on 260 attempts. His FTAs are way down so he doesn't take the ball to hole much but his FG% is holding steady, so his jump shot selection is improving. You say he's not dependable - against those numbers your opinion is hot air.

Do the Heat need an injection of offensive firepower? No. Do they need more players to attack the basket? No. What they need is someone they can depend on to play solid at the point at the end of games - and knock down a jumper if his man helps off him. I don't remember Bibby (his Sac days) being super clutch but I don't remember him getting weak in the knees either. I'll still bet he becomes their closing PG and that the team closes better than before - like I said in an earlier post.

As for him playing for the Suns (a topic you introduced into 'our' debate) or comparing him to Brooks. He's too close to the end of his career for the Suns to bother with and this year he's a poor fit since he's never been a P&R guy and he's unlikely to energize our second unit.

 

[Covert Rain]

You still quoted career stats to support your argument, I was just pointing out that doing that is flawed.

I used more then just that argument. You are conveniently leaving that out.

 

[dodie53]

he is an OK pick up for the heat,
another shooter that can spread the floor.

 

[Mulli]

he is an OK pick up for the heat,
another shooter that can spread the floor.

The Heat are still primarily a jump shooting team (in the playoffs).

 

[Covert Rain]

The Heat are still primarily a jump shooting team (in the playoffs).

Both LeBron and Wade can go to the lane at will. They will get to the line plenty of times to make up for it.

 

[Mulli]

Both LeBron and Wade can go to the lane at will. They will get to the line plenty of times to make up for it.

Nope. Not in the playoffs. They will run ISO plays that can be stopped by the good defensive teams in the East. No low post presence. You are done.

 

[Covert Rain]

Nope. Not in the playoffs. They will run ISO plays that can be stopped by the good defensive teams in the East. No low post presence. You are done.

Disagree. The game slows down in the playoffs and the refs call the game tighter as a result. Guys that typically drive to the bucket, Kobe, LeBron, Wade end up going to the foul line more. Normally I would agree that not having a low post presence might be able to stop ONE of those guys. However, you have two of those guys. If they swing the ball and keep them on opposite sides of the court....they will still get to the line plenty.