Dare I say the "T" word . . . ?

[Carolinacacti]

Trade Chandler so Len can play the same amount of Min and foul out. Then they have to play Bender or Chriss who are not ready to play center. If Alan Williams did not get hurt I could see a trade, not now.

 

[BC867]

'Sorry. Double post.

 

[pokerface]

The only way I can respond is that an experienced management team should know how to handle that without planning to lose again.

An neophyte owner and GM going through Head Coaches the way the Suns do should be able to figure it out beyond one half-season tank.

That isn't really answering. The vast majority of our talent is coming from the draft...the draft you keep knocking!

 

[pokerface]

Trade Chandler so Len can play the same amount of Min and foul out. Then they have to play Bender or Chriss who are not ready to play center. If Alan Williams did not get hurt I could see a trade, not now.

Yep that's the plan exactly

 

[SirStefan32]

Yep that's the plan exactly

I hope that McD and Sarver have more sense than you do.

 

[Mainstreet]

Subtle. Quit picking on Poopy.

I agree with Poopy.

The odor emanates from the bottom of the tank.

 

[pokerface]

I hope that McD and Sarver have more sense than you do.

Actually we're on the same page. They tanked last season..are sitting Bled this season...and are shopping Chandler with Bledsoe.

 

[pokerface]

I agree with Poopy.

The odor emanates from the bottom of the tank.

Hush!

 

[Mainstreet]

We have the Miami pick for anything out of the top seven. You can scout for that pick and let the tank crew worry about cracking the top five with the suns pick. We aren't "putting all our eggs in one basket" for Pete's sake.

Trading Bledsoe and Chandler might not guarantee us cracking the top five but then again it might. We don't know if we don't try that route. Really I'm not getting the "debate" about dealing Chandler at all. He has this season and next season with the suns and that's it. There is ZERO chance of him resigning with the suns. He doesn't fit with our future at all and it's time to cash in on any value he has left. He could potentially mess up our draft and he hinders Len from being fully tested as a starter.

So have you now expanded the tank from the top five players to the top seven? It sure reads that way.

Scouting is required for every draft pick, the Suns pick and the Miami pick if it conveys.

The tank crew on this forum has zero influence on how the Suns play as much as they would like.

There is no debate from me about trading Chandler or Bledsoe from my perspective.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If the NCAA season was going on and one or more of the top prospects were playing great and were being discussed then I could see that logic but that isn't the case. No prospects are being analyzed or discussed, I know they haven't played yet but they aren't talking about their high school stats, measurables, or anything. Specific players aren't being touted by any of the tank crowd, it's just the idea that we must get someone who is projected to be a top 5. The way they're selling it though makes it seem like this will be like the Lebron, Melo, Wade, Bosh draft all over again but no one knows where these players will stack up. I think it's safe to say it'll be better than the 2013 draft but that's about it. No draft eligible players are lighting it up elsewhere right now. No prospects games are being analyzed.

Poop Head tell me that you didn’t claim we weren’t talking about specific players again.

 

[Mainstreet]

Hush!

I hate to tell you but you are full of crap.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Where I have said that you blindly want a high pick and not one of those players? The tank crowd wants a pick to get one of the players who is projected now to be a top 5 pick, I never said otherwise, but I have said those players may not pan out or even be considered top 5 picks when the draft is actually here. I don't see how that is changing my stance. My argument is how you keep twisting my words and now you're accusing me of doing that to you? This all started when it was posted that most that are pro-tank are draft obsessed fans who are following all of the prospects but I said it doesn't seem that way here because you and Pokerface aren't posting about what specifically those top prospects bring to the table outside of small buzz phrases like "Ayton looks like David Robinson". Now you're coming at me claiming I've accused the tank crowd of blindly wanting a top 5 pick? I've acknowledged who the top 5 prospects are over and over and I know that's who you guys want in the draft. I do question if they'll be the same top 5 prospects come draft time because it's rare for the top 5 prospects in October to be the same as they are in June when the draft takes place.

My stance hasn't change but you seem to keep twisting my words around rather than face any other questions or comments in this thread. Again, I said that the tank crowd don't appear to be draft geeks who are over analyzing the draft based on how they post because you guys aren't posting about the prospects in detail other than they're "franchising changing talent". Do the Suns need a big? Yes, but the skill sets of the top 4 NCAA players are vastly different from one another and you don't seem to acknowledge or talk about how Bamba would fit versus Bagley or what you think of Porter. You apparently know but won't talk about it because other people need to research for themselves? That's ridiculous to say on a message board where everyone is talking about the future of the team but you won't disclose what you've researched. You guys aren't debating who the best fit is and why or giving any insight as to why we NEED one of those players so badly or even which one we should choose or which might fit with our current roster. You're not even acknowledging the vastly improved play of Bender compared to last year or Chriss' improved play and how they'd fit with our next pick, whoever that may be or if that changes who we might draft. This team has played much better since Triano has taken over, going 4-2. If they can play close to this good though they won't get a top 5 pick and that's with only 1 veteran in the rotation so how can they tank? Why root for our youth to suck?

The entire debate in this thread is whether to tank or not. Not the merits of the players. Frankly that’s for another thread. Maybe one centered on who people would like to draft. But it’s premature to have that conversation when we could draft anywhere (we’ll likely not the end of the first round).

Bender certainly is playing with more confidence but he has a long way to go. I’m not seeing the growth in chriss’ game you speak of.

But this thread already has a topic. Tank. The growth of the youth should, and has been, discussed all over the rest of the Suns forum.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ok, they do want those players and that's been said but that's it. They want those players. They're not comparing the skill sets of those players to each other or who fits best. I'm not denying they want those 5, maybe I should have put their names instead of using "Player X" but they're not debating the differences they bring to the table or how they fit with this Suns roster.

They want Bamba, Ayton, Bagley, Porter, or Doncic but aren't discussing specifically what those players have that make tanking such a great idea or consider those players might not pan out.

Yes the players might not pan out. ANd success the team has this year might be a mirage like horny’s first year. Or one of young guys might regress. Or might get hurt. Or might go all bledsoe. Lots of things that are unforeseeable might happen.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

See guys. I am in the best of both worlds. I want the young guys to improve. I really don't care about wins or losses either way. If they win, great, great team building night. If they lose, I am not worried about it much, they can learn from the loss too.

I just refuse to go through a year where I am in anquish over every win.

I’m not in anguish with every win as I was last year. But I’m willing to sacrifice this season for the talent reward.

I think I’m kinda the reverse of a lot of you. Some of you want to win win win and if we suck come all Star you’re ready to tank. I’m the flip, I worry about the wins until we’ve racked up enough wins later in the season to continue challenging for the playoffs, at which point I’ll happily shift towards rooting for wins and a playoff push. Does that make sense to you guys?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But, Ouchie, now EVERY year is becoming THIS year. How long will it go on until we hit the jackpot, if we ever do? Especially after, what, eight years without a playoff appearance.

If it doesn't work again this year, isn't it fair to expect you to be promoting tanking again next year? And the year after?

We need a much more professional approach by management than tank-and-hope on and on.

Seriously, Ouchie, will you and pokerface be promoting another tank next season if we don't luck out in the draft and get a real difference-maker?

And, as far as making Len the starting Center and benching Chandler, how do you think that is going to affect the morale of our young players? We have already gotten hints from Booker. He knows what's going on.

I can’t tell you what will happen in the future. I can tell you I wasn’t thinking tank again next year, even when I found out about dropping to 4 spot. As I learned about the talent available this year, saw all the publications and prognostications calling for a dismal season, had little hope in Watson, I started to think a tank this year might be valuable. It’s always a facts and circumstances scenario. I’ve not been a historical serial tanker.

 

[pokerface]

I’m not in anguish with every win as I was last year. But I’m willing to sacrifice this season for the talent reward.

I think I’m kinda the reverse of a lot of you. Some of you want to win win win and if we suck come all Star you’re ready to tank. I’m the flip, I worry about the wins until we’ve racked up enough wins later in the season to continue challenging for the playoffs, at which point I’ll happily shift towards rooting for wins and a playoff push. Does that make sense to you guys?

Makes sense to me. The suns need to prove that they are "non tank" worthy and capable of playoffs. That is a lot of proving. But they'd have to do it without Bledsoe and knowing Len could be gone next season.

 

[pokerface]

I can’t tell you what will happen in the future. I can tell you I wasn’t thinking tank again next year, even when I found out about dropping to 4 spot. As I learned about the talent available this year, saw all the publications and prognostications calling for a dismal season, had little hope in Watson, I started to think a tank this year might be valuable. It’s always a facts and circumstances scenario. I’ve not been a historical serial tanker.

Plus the NBA changed the lottery odds which was unforeseen. Then Williams went down... Things change and so do expectations.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The tank crew on this forum has zero influence on how the Suns play as much as they would like.
.

None of us do! All any of us have are opinions and preferences. That’s why I don’t get other people getting mad and telling other people what they should do or think.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Plus the NBA changed the lottery odds which was unforeseen. Then Williams went down... Things change and so do expectations.

The lottery odds don’t change for the 2018 draft do they?

 

[JCSunsfan]

None of us do! All any of us have are opinions and preferences. That’s why I don’t get other people getting mad and telling other people what they should do or think.

You mean we have done all this arguing for nothing?!!!

Pfffft!!!!

 

[pokerface]

The lottery odds don’t change for the 2018 draft do they?

That's correct. I think that benefits the suns potentially but other teams are tanking harder right now. Dallas 1-9 & Sac 1-7

 

[3rdside]

The top 4 spots are probably locked up already so the strategy of tanking for a top 5 worst record is 80% dead, and that assumes Brooklyn aren't a whole lot worse than us (hint, they are...).

And again, those who think the Big 5 (Doncic, Ayton, Bamba, Bagley and Porter) will be the best 5 players to come out of next years draft are statistically 100% wrong.

Play hard and play young to see what sort of talent we actually have in our squad; we're not going to be good enough for worse than top 9 anyway (I Amare and Matrix love that number!), and hope Miami starts winning so we can get their pick and Bledsoe nets us something.

Future = Positive, Go Suns.

 

[3rdside]

Future = Positive, Go Suns.

Did I really say this? We suck. Again.

You talk about losing embedding bad culture and habits, maybe last night was the proof.

 

[pokerface]

Did I really say this? We suck. Again.

You talk about losing embedding bad culture and habits, maybe last night was the proof.

Yeah and thanks for bumping the thread. We might need to keep it handy "just in case".

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Did I really say this? We suck. Again.

You talk about losing embedding bad culture and habits, maybe last night was the proof.

You just blow with a slight breeze, don’t you?