Denny Green

[RugbyMuffin]

The question is how did Denny Green become a successful coach ?

Maybe it is one of those situations where the game passed Denny by. This comes from reading:

"Whisenhunt confirmed that the Cardinals are bringing to Tempe some potential draftees for visits this year, a change in the team’s policy in recent seasons. Whisenhunt said the visits would be used not only to further information on possible drafted players but also as a recruiting tool for possible undrafted rookies.

The Cardinals used to utilize such visits until Dennis Green was hired as coach. The previous philosophy was that the Cards already knew what they needed to know about players though combine interviews and campus workouts."

That is ridiculous. The draft is the most important event that a team can improve its roster.

Denny Green had some success in the NFL, but I don't know how he pulled it off. His time here as the Cardinals coach was an embarrassment. It just makes me wonder how he ever got to the NFL and how he ever had any success in the NFL.

 

[Garthshort]

Dg

Rugby, can't agree with all you said, and since it's so close, I'll use the Draft as an example. I thought our Drafts, under Denny, were pretty good, and definitely not an embarrasment, as they were often in the years before he arrived. My biggest complaint about DG was his lack of flexibility and willingness to blame others when things didn't work out. I guess it was a case of ego. But all in all, the tenure of DG laid a pretty solid foundation for the team, and KW is building on that foundation. JMO.

 

[lobo]

The question is how did Denny Green become a successful coach ?
"

That is ridiculous. The draft is the most important event that a team can improve its roster.


Ya think? I am sure I know what you mean and maybe I am picking on words....BUT...putting together a top notch coaching staff I think is number 1. Some of you feel that Green was a master drafter and talent evaluator if so it sort of disproves your theory as far as his Cardinal career went.

 

[football karma]

Its a good question

maybe Denny got complacent

clearly Denny didnt have near the caliber of staff in AZ that he had in Minnesota. In Minnesota he had Dungy, Billick, Mike Tice, Foge Fazio and others on his staff at one time or another. That is pretty strong.

 

[joeshmo]

I will say Denny is not the only coach, GM or scout who feels that way. There are a few different philosophies that are out there that are the same as Denny's philosophy in a way.

1. Some teams feel the same as Denny and dont bring in players at all.
2. Some teams feel the same as Denny but do bring in players for the sole purpose of getting teams off of their scent, or trying to raise the value of a player to help the guy they really like fall to their spot. They use it as a smoke and mirrors tool more then anything else.
3. Some teams feel the same as Denny but do bring in players as a future free agent scouting technique. Trying to give a good impression to a possible future free agent.
4. Some teams feel the same as Denny but do bring in players from small schools, schools they dont have as much info on, players who werent invited to the combine. But feel they already have enough info on the big school and big name prospects, so they only bring in the smaller prospects.
5. Teams use it as an opporunity to better sell their team to potential Undrafted free agents. Its like a hich school kid going to a college for a visit, it is more of a recruiting tool not a scouting tool.

IMO we are doing #5. "Whisenhunt said the visits would be used not only to further information on possible drafted players but also as a recruiting tool for possible undrafted rookies." I think the bolded part is what we will be mostly doing in this process.

 

[abomb]

Its a good question

maybe Denny got complacent

clearly Denny didnt have near the caliber of staff in AZ that he had in Minnesota. In Minnesota he had Dungy, Billick, Mike Tice, Foge Fazio and others on his staff at one time or another. That is pretty strong.

I think I feel the same way; he surrounded himself with talented guys and took the credit when things went well and blamed/fired them when it didnt.

 

[ARZCardinals]

Green left this team A LOT better than he found it.

He's got his faults, but he's the only coach who left it better than he received it.

 

[DoTheDew]

Denny's problem was never his ability to scout players. My personal theory is that after Korey Stringer died on him, he became soft as a coach. He didn't ever instill discipline in his players after that, he never coached a team to a winning record after that, and the semblance of a work ethic that he had had before that event seemed to disappear. You can't hate a coach who becomes soft after a player dies on him from a heart attack. He just had no business getting back into coaching, thats all.

 

[vince56]

My personal theory is that after Korey Stringer died on him, he became soft as a coach. He didn't ever instill discipline in his players after that

You may have a point there.

But, after not being successful in years 1 & 2 here, don't you think he'd have noticed the problem and corrected it a little in year 3?

My theory is it's hard to lose when you have Tony Dungy on defense, Brian Billick on offense, and Denny Green drafting players. That was the real magic in Minnnesota IMO.

 

[slanidrac16]

I still don't understand why Green gets all this credit for the past drafts. I won't say he didn't have some imput , but I highly doubt he had the final word in the whole process.

 

[RedViper]

One observation, I would add, is that the game changes over time. It may be the case that a guy who coached a perennial playoff team in the 90's, isn't going to be able to change with the game, the trends, new offenses and defenses, etc. One can argue, Green was always an incompetent hack, propped up by great coaches, he somehow lucked into hiring that carried him along for a number of years. But I kind of doubt it. He was a very successful coach for awhile. I think he gets credit for that. I also think the game passed him by. I definetly agree, as Cardinals coach, he seemed stubborn, inflexible, he wouldn't back away from of move to repair obvious mistakes. And in the changing NFL, where one year to the next coaches are constantly coming up with new offenses and defenses to make the status quo, ineffective and obsolete, those are bad qualities.

 

[NightHawk11and81]

I still don't understand why Green gets all this credit for the past drafts. I won't say he didn't have some imput , but I highly doubt he had the final word in the whole process.

Also, to be honest, those drafts weren't that good.

 

[football karma]

I still don't understand why Green gets all this credit for the past drafts. I won't say he didn't have some imput , but I highly doubt he had the final word in the whole process.

well--

he certainly killed the 2004 draft--

four starters, two have gone to the Pro Bowl and one (Dansby) should in the future

the immediate grading of drafts is basically done on two criteria: did you address your needs and did you get good value with the picks.

Denny inherited a team with needs all over the place, so addressing them was easy.

Denny also loved getting guys from big programs who slid down the charts: Dansby, Dockett, Blackstock, Elton Brown, Leinart, Pope, Watson all kinda fit that mold. So from a layman's perspective -- Denny's drafted guys the average fan recognized lower than the mocks had projected.

With the benefit of hindsight -- Denny's drafts were pretty good: as noted, 2004 was outstanding. 2005 was bad. 2006 still has lots of potential.

 

[Bobcat]

You may have a point there.But, after not being successful in years 1 & 2 here, don't you think he'd have noticed the problem and corrected it a little in year 3?My theory is it's hard to lose when you have Tony Dungy on defense, Brian Billick on offense, and Denny Green drafting players.* That was the real magic in Minnnesota IMO.

I couldn't agree more...!!!


BOBCAT

 

[Capital Card]

Green left this team A LOT better than he found it.

He's got his faults, but he's the only coach who left it better than he received it.

I agree with you 100% and I'm amazed at how many people don't seem to recognize this point. Sure, I'll concede that the bar wasn't exactly set too high when he walked in and total wins are the ultimate the measuring stick in the NFL.

There is not doubt the organization as a whole has changed for the better since Denny was hired. The one aspect we'll never really know is how much of it was Denny vs. how much of it was Michael and Rod.

Denny wasn't my first choice when he was hired, however, as our coach I was of course willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm disappointed it didn't work out; but, grateful for the positive changes he did manage to bring. Hopefully Whiz will get us to take the next step.

Go Cards!!!

 

[slanidrac16]

well--

he certainly killed the 2004 draft--

four starters, two have gone to the Pro Bowl and one (Dansby) should in the future

the immediate grading of drafts is basically done on two criteria: did you address your needs and did you get good value with the picks.

Denny inherited a team with needs all over the place, so addressing them was easy.

Denny also loved getting guys from big programs who slid down the charts: Dansby, Dockett, Blackstock, Elton Brown, Leinart, Pope, Watson all kinda fit that mold. So from a layman's perspective -- Denny's drafted guys the average fan recognized lower than the mocks had projected.

With the benefit of hindsight -- Denny's drafts were pretty good: as noted, 2004 was outstanding. 2005 was bad. 2006 still has lots of potential.

You mean the drafts we had when Denny was here. He did not run the draft. He did not run the scouting dept. He did not have the final and only vote on who we drafted, yet everybody seems to give him full credit for knowing talent.

 

[earthsci]

You mean the drafts we had when Denny was here. He did not run the draft. He did not run the scouting dept. He did not have the final and only vote on who we drafted, yet everybody seems to give him full credit for knowing talent.

When did Steve Keim become the Director of College Scouting? Dansby and Dockett fell into our laps. They were both projected to be first rounders and they were available, filling areas of need for us. Easy picks.

 

[bg7brd]

You mean the drafts we had when Denny was here. He did not run the draft. He did not run the scouting dept. He did not have the final and only vote on who we drafted, yet everybody seems to give him full credit for knowing talent.

I think Denny's input had more to do with it than your giving him credit for. I agree with the above poster that he left this team in far better shape than when he got here.

 

[joeshmo]

Somers found out and stated in his blog that Stewart and Chris Johnson will be in for visits this week. They want to see how far along Stewarts toe is.

We are so going to pick a RB in round 1 or 2 IMO.

 

[40yearfan]

When did Steve Keim become the Director of College Scouting? Dansby and Dockett fell into our laps. They were both projected to be first rounders and they were available, filling areas of need for us. Easy picks.

Keim has been with the Cards for 8 or 9 years. If I remember correctly, he has been the head scout for about the last 3 or 4 years.

 

[joeshmo]

Keim has been with the Cards for 8 or 9 years. If I remember correctly, he has been the head scout for about the last 3 or 4 years.

July will be his 3 year anniversary.

But before that he was responsible for scouting the region that Dockett, Dansby, and Boldin came out of. He was our southeast region scout.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You mean the drafts we had when Denny was here. He did not run the draft. He did not run the scouting dept. He did not have the final and only vote on who we drafted, yet everybody seems to give him full credit for knowing talent.

and you know this how?

You have no more knowledge of what went on, that the people saying that they do.

Draft results are all that counts, and the Cards have drafted well overall on Denny's watch.

 

[Skkorpion]

The only measure of a coach that matters is his record. Denny Green went 6-10 and 5-11.

Every single head coach we've had in Arizona, except Joe Bugel, including Stallings, McGinnis, Tobin and Buddy Ryan each had at least 1 year that was better than anything Green produced. If Green made this team better, I sure didn't see it.

Denny gave away good players like Kendall and the LT, whose name escapes me, for nothing in return.

I can't remember their names but in two short years he scapegoated and fired 5 coaches, if I recall, including two coordinators. All the while coddling his incompetent buddy, Richard Solomon.

Spin it any way you wish. The single biggest mistake Rod Graves made here so far was to push the Cards into hiring Denny Green.

 

[bg7brd]

The only measure of a coach that matters is his record. Denny Green went 6-10 and 5-11.

Every single head coach we've had in Arizona, except Joe Bugel, including Stallings, McGinnis, Tobin and Buddy Ryan each had at least 1 year that was better than anything Green produced. If Green made this team better, I sure didn't see it.

Denny gave away good players like Kendall and the LT, whose name escapes me, for nothing in return.

I can't remember their names but in two short years he scapegoated and fired 5 coaches, if I recall, including two coordinators. All the while coddling his incompetent buddy, Richard Solomon.

Spin it any way you wish. The single biggest mistake Rod Graves made here so far was to push the Cards into hiring Denny Green.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. This team was in complete disarray when Denny came on board. Sure he let some good players go but he basically had to start from the bottom and build up from there. It's unfortunate that his players left a lot games on the table, and he takes blame for that too, but to say he was Grave's biggest mistake is far from true.

 

[slanidrac16]

and you know this how?

You have no more knowledge of what went on, that the people saying that they do.

Draft results are all that counts, and the Cards have drafted well overall on Denny's watch.

I know as much as the people that are giving Green ALL the credit. As I stated, Green did not scout, run the scouting team and have the final say. You want to give him credit ? That's okay with me. But please, only his share.