Diamondbacks trade talks resume

[Phill11]

From: Rotowire.comKip Wells (P) PIT
The Diamondbacks are searching for a new third team to get involved in a possible trade of Randy Johnson to the Yankees, and reportedly are interested in getting the Pirates involved, hopefully getting Wells and Craig Wilson in a deal, the Beaver County Times reports.

Intresting. This could be a last option deal, but I'd like to see more coming to AZ.

 

[Ryanwb]

I could live with getting Kip Wells and Craig Wilson and some other prospects Wilson had a nice season last year but was it a fluke?

Kip Wells has a nice fastball and good movement

These guys are a nice start, but it's going to take a little more

 

[BOB_Man24]

I could live with getting Kip Wells and Craig Wilson and some other prospects Wilson had a nice season last year but was it a fluke?

Kip Wells has a nice fastball and good movement

These guys are a nice start, but it's going to take a little more

I dont think Wilsons year last year was a fluke....Just think of what he could do in a lineup that actually has some tallent around you? Though he doesnt hit for great average, and Wells isnt exactly the next comming of Randy Johnson.

But Pitsburgh is a team that could help ours out quite a bit...

 

[Phill11]

Maybe we could somehow acquire Oliver Perez from PIT. He's a project in the works, but has awesome stuff. Reminds me of Ankel a bit with his control, but he has better control than Rick.

Maybe a deal where we get Perez, Wilson, prospects from NY, and a few other people...

Then we could trade Shea/Wilson/Koplove to LA For Green and some cash..

 

[Ryanwb]

Pittsburgh isn't going to trade Perez yet.... he'll be cheap for them for a few more years then when his contract comes up he'll get traded.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Maybe we could somehow acquire Oliver Perez from PIT. He's a project in the works, but has awesome stuff. Reminds me of Ankel a bit with his control, but he has better control than Rick.

Maybe a deal where we get Perez, Wilson, prospects from NY, and a few other people...

Then we could trade Shea/Wilson/Koplove to LA For Green and some cash..

Here would be my idea:

ARI gets:
Perez
Wilson
Cano
Halsey
We do this because we get two pitchers with potential that can step in immediately, a guy that effectively fills the hole RF, and Cano because the middle infield spots are the weakest link of our minor league system. And most importantly, we get more financial flexibility.

NYY gets:
RJ
It goes without saying why the Yankees do this, although they are giving up a lot in return, but Steinbrenner apparently has become even more obsessed with RJ after the LA deal falling apart, and probably would be willing to do something like this to finally get the job done.

PIT gets:
Vazquez
Duncan
Navarro
cash
probably something else as well (Hillenbrand?)
The Pirates do this because Vazquez would be a great addition for them if the price is right. The Pirates minor league infield is pretty much depleted prospect wise, so getting Duncan really helps out. Navarro is also one of the better catching prospects in the game, and is almost major league ready (Santiago isnt going to last much longer for them). Hillenbrand could also go in the deal to fill out their corner infield along with Wigginton.

This probably needs some tweaking, but I think its a decent idea for all parties. Oh, and screw Shawn Green, we dont need him.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

It's laughable to even think Pittsburgh would even consider trading away Oliver Perez. He was one of the best pitchers in the entire league last year and he makes chump change. You might as well bring up 'Albert Pujols for Randy' pipe dreams while you're at it.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

It's laughable to even think Pittsburgh would even consider trading away Oliver Perez. He was one of the best pitchers in the entire league last year and he makes chump change. You might as well bring up 'Albert Pujols for Randy' pipe dreams while you're at it.

I find it pretty unlikely as well, but he was just traded a year ago after a stellar effort, so Id never say never. Plus, dreamin is free.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I find it pretty unlikely as well, but he was just traded a year ago after a stellar effort, so Id never say never. Plus, dreamin is free.

He was traded a year ago after an unspectacular effort in exchange for Brian Giles, who was generally regarded as one of the best LH hitters in baseball. And plus the Pads had three other young pitchers they preferred over Perez in Peavy, Lawrence, and Eaton.

Do you really think the Pirates would trade away their Cy Young candidate and cleanup hitter (who both make nothing) for a pitcher who's ERA was 6+ after the AS Break and is due $12 million annually to go along with the best prospects in a bad system? Get real.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

I'm not too impressed with that Pittsburgh rumor......

Kip Wells is pretty much a 3rd starter at best and tends to lack stamina.... His contract expired at the end of last season (he earned $2.75 mil), so we probably will seek some "ungodly" contract (probably $3-$4 mil range), and we demand a long-term deal immediately....

Reason why the Pirates want to deal Wells is because they actually have a deep rotation with a few good prospects ([font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] ie Van Benschoten[/font]) waiting for an opportunity to "crack that rotation"......

True Craig Wilson's stats were impressive last season...we must not overlook that it was a "contract year" (which Ryanwb raised an excellent point with his "fluke" season concern).....Plus, he strikes out constantly and is rather subpar defensively......

The Pirates are inclined to trade Wilson since Matt Lawton is now their RF and Daryle Ward can easily be their every day 1B..... I just dont want the Dbacks to be forced to give Wilson a long-term deal (which would be mandatory in order for that trade to be consummated) based on one "break-out" season....

I still hope a deal involving the Marlins/Yankees can come to fruition.....

Dbacks trade Randy Johnson and Shea Hillenbrand to the Marlins for AJ Burnett, Jason Stokes, and Scott Olsen....

Marlins then deal Randy (possibly Jeff Conine to replace Giambi at 1B..that is if they fail to sign Martinez) to the Yankees for Javier Vasquez, Tom Gordon, cash, and some of their prospects.....

Hillenbrand would become their every day 1B to replace Conine and then Gordon is an insurance for Alfonseca..... The Marlins are in a "win now" mode (indications of that is when they acquired Al Leiter)..... And Vasquez would be willing to go to FL since they're a contending team and close to his family in Puerto Rico....

Stokes has been a consistant power-hitter all throughout his Minor League career and is sound defensively..... Scott Olsen will be playing in the Majors by Sept (he will be held-up otherwise if he stays in the Marlins organization since they're so deep with their pitchers).....

In regards to Craig Wilson again....I would even prefer just getting Burnitz over him (at least Burnitz has put him some solid power numbers and has exhibited some plate discipline for the past 5+ years...even when he wasnt benefiting from playing in CO)....

They just must deal Randy before Spring Training... I have this concern that he will refuse to report to Tucson or that he will suffer some injury early in the season (which would obviously greatly affect his trade value or of course that he wouldnt have any whatsoever).....

Yes, true the Dbacks cant just trade Randy for the sake of it, however, they will be taking quite a major risk for not doing so......

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

He was traded a year ago after an unspectacular effort in exchange for Brian Giles, who was generally regarded as one of the best LH hitters in baseball. And plus the Pads had three other young pitchers they preferred over Perez in Peavy, Lawrence, and Eaton.

Do you really think the Pirates would trade away their Cy Young candidate and cleanup hitter (who both make nothing) for a pitcher who's ERA was 6+ after the AS Break and is due $12 million annually to go along with the best prospects in a bad system? Get real.

Unspectacular? You must have really high standards given the season he had in 2002 (Edit: I was mistaken, he was traded halfway through 03, not at the end of 02 as I originally thought.) Why I put Wilson in there I have no idea, I didnt mean to, I guess I was just going off of Phill11's idea. I really think you are selling Vazquez short because of one bad half, I think that he is going to be a solid pitcher for years to come. The Yankees may have a bad system, but Duncan and Navarro are great prospects. Navarro is probably in the Top 50 and one of the best catching prospects in the game, and I am sure that many teams would love to have a guy like Duncan in their system. That said, I doubt that Perez would be going anywhere as I said in my first post, but it isnt as far-fetched as you claim.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

I still hope a deal involving the Marlins/Yankees can come to fuition.....

Dbacks trade Randy Johnson and Shea Hillenbrand to the Marlins for AJ Burnett, Jason Stokes, and Scott Olsen....

Marlins then deal Randy (possibly Jeff Conine to replace Giambi at 1B..that is if they fail to sign Martinez) to the Yankees for Javier Vasquez, Tom Gordon, cash, and some of their prospects.....

Hillenbrand would become their every day 1B to replace Conine and then Gordon is an insurance for Alfonseca..... The Marlins are in a "win now" mode (indications of that is when they acquired Al Leiter)..... And Vasquez would be willing to go to FL since they're a contending team and close to his family in Puerto Rico....

Stokes has been a consistant power-hitter all throughout his Minor League career and is sound defensively..... Scott Olsen will be playing in the Majors by Sept (he will be held-up otherwise if he stays in the Marlins organization since they're so deep with their pitchers).....

Id love to see a three way deal with the Marlins, especially if it involves Burnett, but I doubt they would give up both Olsen and Stokes. Id be all for a trade where the very basics of it include us getting Burnett, Olsen, and Cano while giving up Johnson and Hillenbrand.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Id love to see a three way deal with the Marlins, especially if it involves Burnett, but I doubt they would give up both Olsen and Stokes. Id be all for a trade where the very basics of it include us getting Burnett, Olsen, and Cano while giving up Johnson and Hillenbrand.

How is this deal better than the potential Dodger deal that was criticized so heavily on this board other than saving salary?

 

[KingLouieLouie]

How is this deal better than the potential Dodger deal that was criticized so heavily on this board other than saving salary?

To be brutally honest....What deal would be better than that proposal?

Green would have served as a stop gap for at least a year until Carlos Quentin becomes the Dbacks starting RF (then he would have played 1B for the remainder of his contract)....

Brad Penny is a #1 or #2 quality starter (true he's major risk with his injury, but seems to be recovering well)....

Brazoban is of a course a lethal middle-reliever...who would have become the Dbacks closer if Aquino's '04 showing was a "fluke" and if Valverde hasnt overcome the arm-ailments that plagued him a year-ago.....

The scenario involving the Marlins is a lot more feasible than the Dbacks and Yankees being the only teams....especially if Vasquez has no desire to pitch on the West Coast..and also pitching for his former agent......

 

[Ryanwb]

Brad Penny is a #1 or #2 quality starter (true he's major risk with his injury, but seems to be recovering well)/QUOTE]

Everybody is over ranking Brad Penny, he is a #3 starter at best

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Everybody is over ranking Brad Penny, he is a #3 starter at best

Okay... probably would be the #1 starter on the Dbacks (which isnt saying much)...

I would take Brad Penny over Kip Wells any day......

Edit: I know Penny was seeking a contract extension, but I bet he would have agreed to 1-year deal (with an option for a 2nd) so he could prove if he is healthy enough.... Definitely a lot better than investing a long-term contract in a Shawn Estes or Kip Wells (who has never pitched more than 200 innings in his entire ML career)....

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

How is this deal better than the potential Dodger deal that was criticized so heavily on this board other than saving salary?

Heh, well salary is the biggest part of it actually. Financial flexibility is golden, especially for a team with many holes to fill, like us. But player-wise, I like Penny a little better than Burnett, but that weird nerve thing of his scares me (I know, Burnett hasnt been all that healthy either). So basically those two are about even in my mind all things considering. However, Id rather have Olsen over Brazoban because we only have a shallow pool of starting prospects, where as plenty of young fireballers in the pen plus a couple in the minors. As for Cano, he'd really help fill our need for a middle infield prospect and make Hairston more expendable since the Diamondbacks hate his defense.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

To be brutally honest....What deal would be better than that proposal?

That's the rub. RJ wants out but only wants to go to the Yankees, whose main trading chip is a guy who pitched like crap for half the season and can demand a trade after 2005. I really like Vazquez as a pitcher, he does have #1 stuff (remember both the BoSox and Yanks wanted him over Schilling), but my biggest concern with him is the possibility that he's injured. Scouts have repeatedly said his mechanics were completely out of whack last season which could be explained with an injury.

As for Penny, I always felt he had the stuff to be a #1 but the production has never been there. At 26, he is still a work in progress but has quite the upside. That being said, I would prefer Burnett over him in a heartbeat.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Id love to see a three way deal with the Marlins, especially if it involves Burnett, but I doubt they would give up both Olsen and Stokes.

The reason why the Marlins might be willing to trade both Olsen and Stokes is because they're THAT deep in their farm system, so trading them wouldnt affect them that much....In fact, there are at least 4-5 starters ahead of Olsen in their farm system (must factor in that Willis and Beckett are both still young..also that Vasquez would agree to sign a long-term deal there opposed to the other teams that have been linked in any potential trade)....

Why I'm impressed with Stokes and Olsen.... Click on these links:

Jason Stokes:
http://www.sports-wired.com/profiles/ST/tbc7148.asp

Scott Olsen:
http://www.sports-wired.com/profiles/OL/tbc44286.asp

Stokes is a rare breed that he can hit for both average/power, but he must "cut-down" somewhat on his Ks....

Olsen averaged 10.4 Ks/9 innings and had an impressive K/BB ratio......Being LH makes him more favorable for the Dbacks since they lack in that department (especially in the Farm System).....

That's the rub. RJ wants out but only wants to go to the Yankees, whose main trading chip is a guy who pitched like crap for half the season and can demand a trade after 2005. I really like Vazquez as a pitcher, he does have #1 stuff (remember both the BoSox and Yanks wanted him over Schilling), but my biggest concern with him is the possibility that he's injured. Scouts have repeatedly said his mechanics were completely out of whack last season which could be explained with an injury.

To reiterate from earlier.....The fact that Vasquez wouldnt want to sign a long-term contract w/the Dbacks (or even report to AZ for this matter) makes how much he could impact them a moot point.....

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

The reason why the Marlins might be willing to trade both Olsen and Stokes is because they're THAT deep in their farm system, so trading them wouldnt affect them that much....In fact, there are at least 4-5 starters ahead of Olsen in their farm system (must factor in that Willis and Beckett are both still young..also that Vasquez would agree to sign a long-term deal there opposed to the other teams that have been linked in any potential trade)....

Olsen is ranked the #2 prospect by Baseball America, so I doubt there are 4-5 pitching prospects ahead of him. I also dont think they are quite as deep as you claim, most lists I have seen have them in the middle of the pack (14th by BA, for one). I am not convinced that they would give both up, it all depends on what they get in addition to Vazquez I suppose. Nevertheless, Id love it if we tried to deal with them.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Olsen is ranked the #2 prospect by Baseball America, so I doubt there are 4-5 pitching prospects ahead of him. I also dont think they are quite as deep as you claim, most lists I have seen have them in the middle of the pack (14th by BA, for one). I am not convinced that they would give both up, it all depends on what they get in addition to Vazquez I suppose. Nevertheless, Id love it if we tried to deal with them.

I should have been clearer.... I meant 4-5 starters ahead of Olsen on the Marlins depth-chart...rather than in terms of rank.....

Here's the Marlins Depth Chart:
http://www.forecaster.ca/demos/baseball/depthchart.cgi?Fla

Cabrera and Pierre will be main-stays (with Hermida replacing Encarnacion in RF), Mike Lowell manning 3B for at least another 3-years (Dillon could be switched to 1B or Hillenbrand could become their 1B if that Marlins-Dbacks deal did materialize)....

I must concede with you to a certain extent...that the Marlins Farm System isnt as deep as it was a year-ago, but still ranks ahead of many (especially the ones that the Yankees may be willing to deal with in the Johnson trade or a team that Vasquez wouldnt refuse reporting to)....

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Now some NY papers are reporting that the Dbacks and Yankees have continued trade talks....

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/266000p-227834c.html

Yanks, D-Backs
resume talks on Johnson deal

The Yankees and Diamondbacks renewed negotiations last night on a deal that would put Randy Johnson in pinstripes. Sources said Diamondbacks executive Jeffrey Moorad contacted Yankees president Randy Levine to restart the talks that had been aborted last week when the Dodgers pulled out of a potential three-team trade.

It is believed the talks are back to a 1-on-1 between the Yankees and Arizona.

The deal is expected to be a Johnson-for-Javier Vazquez exchange, with the Yankees adding prospects believed to be pitchers Brad Halsey and Melky Cabrera, in addition to cash.

I certainly hope that a 3rd team is involved (but they might be hesitant to disclose it since the Dodgers backed out because of the "leak" of players involved in that aborted package) since I still question whether Vasquez would be willing to report to AZ...He could also opt-out of his contract after his 1st year (which there are rumors circulating that he doesnt want to have anything to do w/his former agent..that being Moorad.)

The Dbacks still need a power hitter to bat behind Glaus (which is why someone like Green was an excellent possibility or even getting Jason Stokes what help out in that department).... I hope they didnt "burn their bridges" with Burnitz.......

I guess Chad Tracy is penciled in as the Dbacks 1B, however, unless he bulked-up this off-season..he wont really benefit them from that "power standpoint" either.....

Halsey is a decent LH prospect and Cabrera is a respectable SH OF, but those 2 with Vasquez arent enough to get back for Johnson (unless they can pedal Halsey and Cabrera in another trade package)....

 

[Lefty]

I would think Shea is pencilled in as the starting first baseman with Chad in rightfield.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

I would think Shea is pencilled in as the starting first baseman with Chad in rightfield.

I still envision Hillenbrand being traded once Randy Johnson's fate is determined.... Plus, I just dont see Hillenbrand producing like a proto-typical 1B should.... He's just a streaky line-drive hitter and average at best defensively.... Also, there is no guarantee that Tracy will make the transition to RF easily...I know awhile back I had anointed him as "the next Wade Boggs", but I have since come to the realization....Tracy just had 1 year and we cant judge anything from a "small sample size" (case in point...Alex Cintron).....

 

[PDXChris]

Personally I would like to see a deal that bring Zito here, I think he just needs a change of atmosphere and he will be back on top. Maybe we can get creative and get a 4 team trade that involves all kind of prospects with Vasquez going to FL, Burnett to Oakland, Zito to AZ and Johnson to NY. Wishful thinking though. Maybe we could also do a swap of Tracy for Chavez, hoping that Oakland will want a young cheaper Tracy, when they konw that Chavez is a year away from a big deal.