Do the Suns want to win an NBA Title or just games?

[Paul Panks]

I highly question the Phoenix Suns and their commitment to winning NBA Titles. This summer will go a long way to disproving the theory that "Fun and 50" is still the "Modus Operandi" of the organization.

Paul

 

[playstation]

i don't think winning games and having fun are mutually exclusive, although recent teams have made it seem so. this team will be highly successful, but only 1 team wins the title every year, so what can you do?

 

[Joe Mama]

I think they badly want to win a championship although I wonder if the bottom line will interfere with their pursuit.

Joe Mama

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think they badly want to win a championship although I wonder if the bottom line will interfere with their pursuit.

Joe Mama

I agree - if they just wanted to continue to win games, they wouldn't have broken up a team that just set the world on the fire last year. They took a risk - now if they don't spend the MLE and LLE, then I would start questioning them, but until then, the answer IMO is no.

 

[sly fly]

Good question. A question that's been asked for years in regards to this team.

My thinking has always been that they've tried to always put an exciting product on the court, and if that leads to a ring... super.

I do feel that they've turned the other way if signing or trading for a player meant sacrificing the values this franchise tries to uphold. And, if this causes or caused this team to NOT win a title, then so be it.

I do know that this team is HELLBENT on getting a ring soon. J. Colangelo isn't getting any younger, and he'll do whatever it takes to put this team in position (yeah, I know Sarver controls most of the $$$ now, but let's not kid yourselves).

 

[HooverDam]

I think they want to win it all. remember how touched JC was when the dbacks won in 2001? He has been a part of the Suns for even longer. I think its the clubs goal to get JC a ring while he is around

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm not sure I understand the position that this trade meant the Suns AREN'T trying to win it all. JUst about the entire country concluded that the Suns needed to get a defensive oriented rebounder who could shoot. They got one. Why does this mean they aren't serious?

Assuming the Suns pick up an outside shooter who hits a better percentage than Q, I can't see how this team isn't at least a little bit closer to winning it all.

 

[Errntknght]

The longer you've watched the Suns the more it's going to take to convince you that they are committed to winning it all. Even worse, is the dread that they don't know how to go about it.

Trading Q for KT seems to be a step in the right direction. But you have to balance that against their hiring of coach Mikey's brother as an assistant, when they desperately need one that has some concept of how to defend in the NBA.
Not to mention drafting Dijon who's reputed to be a weak defender.

Didn't they notice how one ace defender can be worth his weight in gold - I'm talking about Bruce Bowen taking whichever opponent Pops sicced him on, out of his game throughout the playoffs. Guys like that don't go on trees but you will never get one if you don't keep that well in mind when you're looking to acquire players. It would have so encouraging if they'd drafted Eddie Basden, who is highly regarded for his defensive prowess. Odds are he's not that great but you need to try.

Signs of progress toward the crown that I look for this summer are resigning Hunter or picking up Mikki Moore or better. Making a run at Raja Bell. Getting a reliever for Nash. Filling up the bench with guys that can be counted on when needed - Fins for the minimum, would be a nice start. Getting Basden on the summer league team.

 

[Joe Mama]

I can't remember where I read it or heard it, but I remember someone talking amount Basden's defense was overrated. It may have been one of the stories about the Chicago camp. I'm not sure. I don't think much of the Thompson drafting. Anything he provides is a bonus in my opinion. I just don't expect much from a #54 draft pick. If he provides a good body for practice and enthusiastic towel waving on the end of the bench during games I'll be happy.

Now if Blatche had dropped 5 more spots, and they passed on him for Thompson I'd have to go down to the AWA and roll right over Bryan Colangelo. I would have traded Barbosa to move up to get him earlier in the second round. I really like Blatche, and I don't think much of Barbosa. I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't ever see him as much more than a poor man's Tony Delk.

Joe Mama

 

[se7en]

This isn't the freakin Clippers. The Suns haven't won it all but I don't see how anyone can say that they haven't always been trying to win it all. They've all spent the money on free agents, they've always tried to make bold trades. No one in their right mind can say that this team has done anything other than try to win it all. And if anyone doubts that they haven't put themselves closer to winning a title, well then you really haven't been paying attention.

And to the people who say they will reserve judgement until after free agency and see if they really sign someone? What is that? Do you really think BC isn't going to sign some quality free agents? Come on people. Why are you acting like the Suns have suddenly become the Clippers. These ideas some of you are thgrowing around are silly as hell. The Suns are spending the money on a championship team. What the hell more can you ask for. Sheesh.

 

[HooverDam]

A fun fact, the Suns have the highest winning percentage for their franchise history of any team to never win the title. I think they are 4th overall.

The Suns want to win it all, but they also want to be entertaining and have quality people on their team.

 

[Chaplin]

This is a ridiculous thread.

Of course the Suns want to win the title! Did anyone think we were going to win it last summer? Absolutely not! Most everyone still didn't think we'd win it after winning 62 games this summer!

No committment to winning a title? Take that post and burn it--that is such a crock of crap I can't even describe it.

 

[Paul Panks]

I've always thought Colangelo was more commited to having the D-Backs win it all then the Suns. Once the Suns failed in 1993, Colangelo suddenly realized that baseball would bring him a Title -- not the Suns. So he built the D-Backs from the ground up and -- in four flippin years! -- won a World Series. Against the Yankees.

If he'd show that sort of commitment to the Suns, we'd have 5 or 6 NBA Titles by now.

Paul

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Once the Suns failed in 1993, Colangelo suddenly realized that baseball would bring him a title -- not the Suns.

Jerry Colangelo has never hidden the fact that his true love is baseball. By his own account, he used basketball to get into baseball and with very little personal investment became the "managing general partner" of the D-Backs and helped them win their first title.

I've heard him in many interviews and he has never been shy when it comes to speaking about his love for baseball and why it is the best sport, in his opinion.

I'm not even commenting on his desire to win a title in the NBA, just pointing out that he didn't switch to baseball just to try and win a title.

 

[Dr. Dumas]

I highly question the Phoenix Suns and their commitment to winning NBA Titles. This summer will go a long way to disproving the theory that "Fun and 50" is still the "Modus Operandi" of the organization.

Paul

This is a business-every extra playoff game played means about a million dollars per game. Why in the world would you question the commitment.

Do you think that the Suns organization doesn't want to win championships?

 

[HooverDam]

Jerry Colangelo has never hidden the fact that his true love is baseball. By his own account, he used basketball to get into baseball and with very little personal investment became the "managing general partner" of the D-Backs and helped them win their first title.

I've heard him in many interviews and he has never been shy when it comes to speaking about his love for baseball and why it is the best sport, in his opinion.

I'm not even commenting on his desire to win a title in the NBA, just pointing out that he didn't switch to baseball just to try and win a title.

Do you have any sources for that? Im not saying you are lying, Ive just never read that. JC has been involved in hoops since way back (remember he worked in the Bulls organization at one point). He was also a basketball player in his younger years. Ive never heard anything about him using basketball to get into baseball. Even if that were true, that wouldve been an incredibly far sighted plan for him to set into motion in the late 60s, I kind of doubt it.

 

[Paul Panks]

The reason why the Suns have never won an NBA Title is management, not the players they've acquired. Management doesn't know how to manage. They field a good team for a couple of years, but then shake it up a bit when they lose in the first round (or Western Conference Finals, as the case may be). They never stay the course. Witness the Barkley years. They got Danny Manning and AC Green to help bolster the 62 and 56 win Suns, then they won 59 games and collapsed against Houston. Again. Then they tried to get better at the end of the 1995 season, but fell flat at 41 wins the following year.

Then they started all over again, getting Jason Kidd. They had modest success -- see 1999-2000 season -- but when it was clear that Kidd was a wife beater, they shipped him off to another team. "Backcourt 2000" because "Failure 2000."

And then, when Kidd left town, they stunk for a year, and got the draft rights to Amare Stoudemire. Good move. One of the best moves in Suns' history, in my opinion.

But now if they don't win it all this year or next, I'm afraid that management will once again dismantle this team and rebuild again. They've got that habit of dismantling a core of a team if they don't "win it all." They don't have any patience, like the Bulls, Spurs, Pistons and Lakers. That's why they've never won it all.

It's not who they have, it's who they are.

Paul

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Do you have any sources for that? Im not saying you are lying, Ive just never read that. JC has been involved in hoops since way back (remember he worked in the Bulls organization at one point). He was also a basketball player in his younger years. Ive never heard anything about him using basketball to get into baseball. Even if that were true, that wouldve been an incredibly far sighted plan for him to set into motion in the late 60s, I kind of doubt it.

It was a local radio interview I heard with Jerry and, I believe, David Liebowitz.

I'm not saying he set out many years ago with the plan to use a successful basketball career and turn it into a dream baseball position, that's just how it worked out.

He was a basketball and baseball standout in college. He played some semi-pro basketball and sold tuxedos after college, until he got a job as a scout/merchandiser for the (1966 expansion team) Chicago Bulls.

In the interview I heard, he said that he did love basketball, but baseball was the first sport he ever really loved. So it was no surprise that he jumped at the chance to be involved with the D-Backs, even if it was just to organize the investors to make it possible to bring a team to Arizona.

He was asked which sport was the best of all sports - and he said baseball. He said there is nothing else like it. The history, the stats, the legends, etc. He also mentioned some wild idea of his for having a rotating World Series, sort of like the Super Bowl.

I was only bringing the interview up to point out that Jerry did not simply jump into baseball to get a title because he failed to get one in basketball. Baseball is something he's always held close to his heart.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They don't have any patience, like the Bulls, Spurs, Pistons and Lakers. That's why they've never won it all.

Paul

The above just shows how LITTLE you know about basketball. Every single one of those teams shook up their rosters on the way to NBA Titles:

The Lakers pulled a huge deal sending Eddie Jones and Elden for Glen Rice - and that was off a 61 win team - the next full season, they won the title - THEN GOT RID OF RICE and continued to win titles.

The PISTONS made the playoffs and won 50 games with Stackhouse as their leader - they got into the second round and lost with homecourt - did they stay the course like morons? No - they dealt Stack for Hamilton, fired their coach and STILL made another HUGE trade to bring in Rasheed. That's 3 MAJOR changes within 18 months.

The BULLS - had their young core of Jordan, OAKLEY, Pippen and Grant - but they needed to get bigger - did they just remain patient and sit with this core? No - they traded their SECOND BEST player in Oakley to get a C (Cartwright).

The PISTONS (in the 80's) - Yeah - they stayed the course also - uh - wait - no they didn't, they dealt fan favorite and All-Star Adrian Dantley for Mark Aguirre after getting close multiple times.

The ROCKETS - yeah - a lot of patience there. After WINNING a Title, they traded away key pieces of their core to get Drexler who put them over the top for ANOTHER TITLE.

As far as your bringing up the next two years after 93 as evidence that they don't have patience - well that's just stupid. The core remained exactly the same except they ADDED to it - yeah - that's a bad thing. Then considering in 94 that Barkley missed 17 games, KJ missed countless games, they still ended up with the 3rd best record in basketball, and had the Rockets on death's door until INJURY derailed them. Then you bring up the Suns not being patient AGAIN when getting Manning? Are you ******** or something? Adding to an already very good team isn't impatience, it's intelligence. That team went on to post a 36-10 record halfway through the season until Manning went down with an ACL - then we still were up on the eventual champs (AGAIN) when injuries crippled Charles' knee. We didn't lose those two years because of "impatience" - we lost because of bad luck/injuries.

After that the team was basically done anyway. Their window had passed. Then you think they should have preached patience with those awfully mediocre Kidd teams? For what reason - to continue to watch them be mediocre? They didn't break that dreadful unit up fast enough.

Bottom line - you are a moron.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Bottom line - you are a moron.

Excellent response.

Factual and well documented.

 

[Paul Panks]

I've folllowed the Suns since 1982. They lack patience. I wasn't saying the other teams don't have patience (not in the way you are suggesting). I was saying that they stay the course...they keep their CORE together (not adequate players like Cartwright and Rice, among others).

The great teams stay the course...meaning...they don't throw away a Jordan, or a Bird or a Magic. I've followed basketball for a very long time. Teams just don't do that, unless they are really trying to rebuild an aging superstar with some trade value left (see: Philadelphia 76ers, after the 1991-92 season).

Paul

 

[elindholm]

TROLL ALERT

 

[Cheesebeef]

The great teams stay the course...meaning...they don't throw away a Jordan, or a Bird or a Magic.
Paul

I forgot how many times we've thrown away a player of that caliber.

Good lord - Amare is the first guy who could be of that ilk. Of course you're gonna go through change trying to find one of the above - Jason Kidd and a broken down 34 year old Charles Barkley weren't one of those guys - so what's your point?

 

[se7en]

I've always thought Colangelo was more commited to having the D-Backs win it all then the Suns. Once the Suns failed in 1993, Colangelo suddenly realized that baseball would bring him a Title -- not the Suns. So he built the D-Backs from the ground up and -- in four flippin years! -- won a World Series. Against the Yankees.

If he'd show that sort of commitment to the Suns, we'd have 5 or 6 NBA Titles by now.

Paul

I'm not even sure I want to respond to you any more. You are completely clueless. The NBA has a thing called a salary cap. MLB does not. And maybe you should check and see how mauch money the Suns have sunk into players in an attempt to buy a championship. To imply that they haven't spent the money and made the attempt to get quality players to win a title is just rediculous.

 

[se7en]

The above just shows how LITTLE you know about basketball. Every single one of those teams shook up their rosters on the way to NBA Titles:

The Lakers pulled a huge deal sending Eddie Jones and Elden for Glen Rice - and that was off a 61 win team - the next full season, they won the title - THEN GOT RID OF RICE and continued to win titles.

The PISTONS made the playoffs and won 50 games with Stackhouse as their leader - they got into the second round and lost with homecourt - did they stay the course like morons? No - they dealt Stack for Hamilton, fired their coach and STILL made another HUGE trade to bring in Rasheed. That's 3 MAJOR changes within 18 months.

The BULLS - had their young core of Jordan, OAKLEY, Pippen and Grant - but they needed to get bigger - did they just remain patient and sit with this core? No - they traded their SECOND BEST player in Oakley to get a C (Cartwright).

The PISTONS (in the 80's) - Yeah - they stayed the course also - uh - wait - no they didn't, they dealt fan favorite and All-Star Adrian Dantley for Mark Aguirre after getting close multiple times.

The ROCKETS - yeah - a lot of patience there. After WINNING a Title, they traded away key pieces of their core to get Drexler who put them over the top for ANOTHER TITLE.

As far as your bringing up the next two years after 93 as evidence that they don't have patience - well that's just stupid. The core remained exactly the same except they ADDED to it - yeah - that's a bad thing. Then considering in 94 that Barkley missed 17 games, KJ missed countless games, they still ended up with the 3rd best record in basketball, and had the Rockets on death's door until INJURY derailed them. Then you bring up the Suns not being patient AGAIN when getting Manning? Are you ******** or something? Adding to an already very good team isn't impatience, it's intelligence. That team went on to post a 36-10 record halfway through the season until Manning went down with an ACL - then we still were up on the eventual champs (AGAIN) when injuries crippled Charles' knee. We didn't lose those two years because of "impatience" - we lost because of bad luck/injuries.

After that the team was basically done anyway. Their window had passed. Then you think they should have preached patience with those awfully mediocre Kidd teams? For what reason - to continue to watch them be mediocre? They didn't break that dreadful unit up fast enough.

Bottom line - you are a moron.

Thanks Cheese. You wrote the post I wanted to write to this moron. Nailed every point.