Draft Preview: QB

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
This is a very interesting draft for the Cardinals, V. 2.0 under the BASK regime. What I thought I would do is go through each position, identify the current players on the roster who may well be on the bubble, forecast what the BASK thinking may be as we approach the draft and make a few predictions as to what we might expect when the dust clears.

QB:

Starter: 9-Carson Palmer.

Bubble: 5-Drew Stanton, 14-Ryan Lindley.

Palmer appears to be primed and ready to pick up where he left off last season, especially now that he is well ensconced in BA's offense. Even he, however, says he understands why the Cardinals might draft a QB.

Rumor has it that the Cardinals appear to be very interested in drafting a QB this year. If they do, what might this mean to the futures of Drew Stanton and/or Ryan Lindley?

Stanton remains a relative unknown. He's athletic and strong armed, but remarkably inexperienced for a #2 QB heading into his 8th season. In the pre-season last year, Stanton looked strong in the pocket and threw the ball with good velocity---but seemed to throw every pass with high velo and thus lacked touch and led to numerous bobbles and ricochets.

Stanton's greatest asset to the team at this point is his knowledge of the offense...an offense that, as we saw last year, is not easy to pick up. His mobility is intriguing, to say the least, especially since he's by far the most mobile of the three QBs.

His biggest liabilities at this point are his inexperience and his salary (14th highest cap figure on the roster, at $2.67 M).

Ryan Lindley played reasonably well in the pre-season last year as the #3 and looks far more comfortable in his own skin under the new system. His arm is good and lively and he has decent, albeit not great, mobility.

If BASK are genuinely considering drafting a QB, possibly early in the draft---what this strongly suggests is that they do not view Stanton or Lindley as long-term possibilities.

If a QB is taken---then there becomes the issue of snaps and reps. BA is going to want to give the draftee plenty of them---which then relegates Stanton and Lindley to the sidelines, more than certainly either one of them would prefer.

The Cardinals appear to be committed to taking a QB in this year's draft.

According to Peter King, the Cardinals are particularly high on Derek Carr (6-2, 215, Fresno St.) and A.J. McCarron (6-3, 214, Alabama). Some recent mocks have Teddy Bridgewater (6-2, 205, Louisville) and Johnny Manziel (6-0, 210, Texas A&M) sliding into the late portions of the first round. Some pundits speculate that the Cardinals are targeting the likes of McCarron, Zach Mettenberger (6-5, 235, LSU) or Tom Savage (6-4, 230, Pittsburgh) in rounds 2 or 3 of the draft.

And---this is purely speculation on my part---but I could see why Steve Keim might like David Fales (6-2, 220, San Jose St.) for his uncanny accuracy/clutch performances and Tajh Boyd (6-1, 222, Clemson) for his arm and excellent mobility. Neither one of them has the size that BA typically covets, but the intangibles may sway to their side if the Cardinals still haven't drafted a QB by the start of the 4th round. I would also think that smaller sized, but highly productive QBs Aaron Murray (6-1, 201, Georgia) and Brett Smith (6-2, 206, Wyoming) might be of cosideration.

The wild card here is Logan Thomas (6-6, 250, Virginia Tech), who manifests superior physical traits, but mind-boggling inconsistencies. BA, a fellow Hokie, worked Thomas out himself and has every inside angle on the kid. With Carson Palmer expected to play for the next two years, BA would have two years to try to groom Thomas. That window could make sense, if they decide to go with a project rather than a more ready to plug in and play option, like Carr, McCarron, Bridgewater, Manziel or Mettenberger.

There's also a project QB in this draft who has recently attracted a fair degree of interest from teams: Seth Lobato (6-6, 223, Northern Colorado)---a former basketball player turned QB who is tall in the saddle, strong armed and athletic.

And---for all the tapes of eligible QBs I've scoured over the past few months, I have grown an affinity for Keith Wenning (6-3, 220, Ball St.), whom I liken to a young Kurt Warner. I have no idea whether he is even on BA&SK's radar.

If they pick a QB early (Rounds 1-3), BASK will have to make a tough decision on Drew Stanton. They could ask him to take a pay cut---which he would in all likelihood refuse. Or they could release him and save $1.3M on the cap, but lose $1.3M in dead money.

BASK could decide that Stanton is too important to keep and they would therefore eventually waive Ryan Lindley.

The $1.3M they could add by releasing Stanton could come in handy after the draft, if and when players like G Evan Mathis and RB LaMichael James become available. It also could be used to re-sign T Eric Winston.

The biggest question I have---and I think it is a fascinating one---would BA&SK draft Johnny Manziel, if he were available at #20?

While I think Manziel will be long gone by #20---I actually believe that BA&SK would draft Manziel and that they would envision in year one spelling Palmer a couple of times a game and give Johnny Football a package of plays, that quite possibly could raise the roof at U of P.

At Palmer's age that might not be such a bad thing and it could keep him healthy. which will be a challenge to do for a second straight year.

I do know this---if the Cardinals take a QB in round 1---BA doesn't believe in first round QBs sitting. While Palmer will enter camp as the starter, there will be an impetus to play the first round QB, whomever he is.
 
Last edited:

GimmedaBall

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Posts
1,626
Reaction score
1,110
I think the Cards are all in on winning it all this year and a QB replacement for Palmer is on the backburner. I don't read a committment to selecting a QB high in this draft. Have the Cards even interviewed/brought in for a visit any of the current QBs in the draft? The window is closing for a few long-time Cards including DD and Fitz and John Abraham---win it this year. Our coaching staff has a lot of old guys who were brought in to win now. Arians sees him and Carson as old guys with one last chance before riding off into the sunset. Our good young coaches will be poached away by other teams if our D and our OL continues to develop.

Add that the SB is in our house. Have to believe that B Jr. wants to win it all for his father B Sr. I think the mandate is to get players in who will push us over the top this season---then we'll worry about QBs with a SB trophy in the building.

Any QB selected will be a late-round pick. Can't afford to spend a high pick on a QB who will hold a clipboard. Do you see ANY of the current QBs in the draft who would be capable of coming in and replacing a healthy Palmer as the starter. I don't. (And I will return to this thread to eat my plate of crow if the Cards take a QB in the first-round.)
 

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
This is a very interesting draft for the Cardinals, V. 2.0 under the BASK regime. What I thought I would do is go through each position, identify the current players on the roster who may well be on the bubble, forecast what the BASK thinking may be as we approach the draft and make a few predictions as to what we might expect when the dust clears.

QB:

Starter: 9-Carson Palmer.

Bubble: 5-Drew Stanton, 14-Ryan Lindley.

Palmer appears to be primed and ready to pick up where he left off last season, especially now that he is well ensconced in BA's offense. Even he, however, says he understands why the Cardinals might draft a QB.

Rumor has it that the Cardinals appear to be very interested in drafting a QB this year. If they do, what might this mean to the futures of Drew Stanton and/or Ryan Lindley?

Stanton remains a relative unknown. He's athletic and strong armed, but remarkably inexperienced for a #2 QB heading into his 8th season. In the pre-season last year, Stanton looked strong in the pocket and threw the ball with good velocity---but seemed to throw every pass with high velo and thus lacked touch and led to numerous bobbles and ricochets.

Stanton's greatest asset to the team at this point is his knowledge of the offense...an offense that, as we saw last year, is not easy to pick up. His mobility is intriguing, to say the least, especially since he's by far the most mobile of the three QBs.

His biggest liabilities at this point are his inexperience and his salary (14th highest cap figure on the roster, at $2.67 M).

Ryan Lindley played reasonably well in the pre-season last year as the #3 and looks far more comfortable in his own skin under the new system. His arm is good and lively and he has decent, albeit not great, mobility.

If BASK are genuinely considering drafting a QB, possibly early in the draft---what this strongly suggests is that they do not view Stanton or Lindley as long-term possibilities.

If a QB is taken---then there becomes the issue of snaps and reps. BA is going to want to give the draftee plenty of them---which then relegates Stanton and Lindley to the sidelines, more than certainly either one of them would prefer.

The Cardinals appear to be committed to taking a QB in this year's draft.

According to Peter King, the Cardinals are particularly high on Derek Carr (6-2, 215, Fresno St.) and A.J. McCarron (6-3, 214, Alabama). Some recent mocks have Teddy Bridgewater (6-2, 205, Louisville) and Johnny Manziel (6-0, 210, Texas A&M) sliding into the late portions of the first round. Some pundits speculate that the Cardinals are targeting the likes of McCarron, Zach Mettenberger (6-5, 235, LSU) or Tom Savage (6-4, 230, Pittsburgh) in rounds 2 or 3 of the draft.

And---this is purely speculation on my part---but I could see why Steve Keim might like David Fales (6-2, 220, San Jose St.) for his uncanny accuracy/clutch performances and Tajh Boyd (6-1, 222, Clemson) for his arm and excellent mobility. Neither one of them has the size that BA typically covets, but the intangibles may sway to their side if the Cardinals still haven't drafted a QB by the start of the 4th round. I would also think that smaller sized, but highly productive QBs Aaron Murray (6-1, 201, Georgia) and Brett Smith (6-2, 206, Wyoming) might be of cosideration.

The wild card here is Logan Thomas (6-6, 250, Virginia Tech), who manifests superior physical traits, but mind-boggling inconsistencies. BA, a fellow Hokie, worked Thomas out himself and has every inside angle on the kid. With Carson Palmer expected to play for the next two years, BA would have two years to try to groom Thomas. That window could make sense, if they decide to go with a project rather than a more ready to plug in and play option, like Carr, McCarron, Bridgewater, Manziel or Mettenberger.

There's also a project QB in this draft who has recently attracted a fair degree of interest from teams: Seth Lobato (6-6, 223, Northern Colorado)---a former basketball player turned QB who is tall in the saddle, strong armed and athletic.

And---for all the tapes of eligible QBs I've scoured over the past few months, I have grown an affinity for Keith Wenning (6-3, 220, Ball St.), whom I liken to a young Kurt Warner. I have no idea whether he is even on BA&SK's radar.

If they pick a QB early (Rounds 1-3), BASK will have to make a tough decision on Drew Stanton. They could ask him to take a pay cut---which he would in all likelihood refuse. Or they could release him and save $1.3M on the cap, but lose $1.3M in dead money.

BASK could decide that Stanton is too important to keep and they would therefore eventually waive Ryan Lindley.

The $1.3M they could add by releasing Stanton could come in handy after the draft, if and when players like G Evan Mathis and RB LaMichael James become available. It also could be used to re-sign T Eric Winston.

The biggest question I have---and I think it is a fascinating one---would BA&SK draft Johnny Manziel, if he were available at #20?

While I think Manziel will be long gone by #20---I actually believe that BA&SK would draft Manziel and that they would envision in year one spelling Palmer a couple of times a game and give Johnny Football a package of plays, that quite possibly could raise the roof at U of P.

At Palmer's age that might not be such a bad thing and it could keep him healthy. which will be a challenge to do for a second straight year.

I do know this---if the Cardinals take a QB in round 1---BA doesn't believe in first round QBs sitting. While Palmer will enter camp as the starter, there will be an impetus to play the first round QB, whomever he is.

I don`t see Manziel in AZ.I have doubts about his style keeping him healthy enough to last a season.What works in college doesn`t mean it will work in the NFL.Maybe if he improves his pocket awareness so he doesn`t play rabbit too much.
 

WildBB

Yogi n da Bear
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Posts
14,295
Reaction score
1,239
Location
The Sonoran Jungle - West
Some pundits speculate that the Cardinals are targeting the likes of McCarron, Zach Mettenberger (6-5, 235, LSU) or Tom Savage (6-4, 230, Pittsburgh) in rounds 2 or 3 of the draft.
And---this is purely speculation on my part---but I could see why Steve Keim might like David Fales (6-2, 220, San Jose St.) for his uncanny accuracy/clutch performances and Tajh Boyd (6-1, 222, Clemson) for his arm and excellent mobility. Neither one of them has the size that BA typically covets, but the intangibles may sway to their side if the Cardinals still haven't drafted a QB by the start of the 4th round. I would also think that smaller sized, but highly productive QBs Aaron Murray (6-1, 201, Georgia) and Brett Smith (6-2, 206, Wyoming) might be of cosideration.

The wild card here is Logan Thomas (6-6, 250, Virginia Tech), who manifests superior physical traits, but mind-boggling inconsistencies. BA, a fellow Hokie, worked Thomas out himself and has every inside angle on the kid. With Carson Palmer expected to play for the next two years, BA would have two years to try to groom Thomas. That window could make sense, if they decide to go with a project rather than a more ready to plug in and play option, like Carr, McCarron, Bridgewater, Manziel or Mettenberger.

There's also a project QB in this draft who has recently attracted a fair degree of interest from teams: Seth Lobato (6-6, 223, Northern Colorado)---a former basketball player turned QB who is tall in the saddle, strong armed and athletic.

And---for all the tapes of eligible QBs I've scoured over the past few months, I have grown an affinity for Keith Wenning (6-3, 220, Ball St.), whom I liken to a young Kurt Warner. I have no idea whether he is even on BA&SK's radar.

I think it's a sure thing that the Cardinals address the QBOF this draft. They are due. It was even talked about last year and Palmer is now 36. If he goes down or things deteriorate they need to have a backup plan, and that is not starting Stanton, imo. They would need to play for the following season and plug in a QBOF.

So with that in mind with a deep draft, I think the game plan is to trade down, pick up extra picks earlier in the 3rd and 4th Rd's. That would require trading out of the 1st all toghether and picking up early 2nd, 3rd and 4th picks. Giving us two picks in each of those rounds. So they wind up with 5 picks right at the top 100 players and their pick at 120.

This could address some serious holes in their depth and hopefully some future starters including:

QB: McCarron, Mettenberger, Savage, Murray, Wenning

RT: Moses, Bitonio, Richardson, Hurst

WR: Ellington, Herron,

TE: Safarian-Jenkins, Niklas

DL: Hageman, Easley, Quarles, Sutton

OLB: Shazier, Van Noy, Chris Smith, Marcus Smith

CB: Roby, Joyner, Gains,

S: Ward, Buchannon,
 

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
12,989
Reaction score
5,213
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
IMO QB Zach Mettenberger is the guy they want.

Kent Somers
FWIW: GM Steve Keim, VP Jason Licht and #azcardinals prez Mike Bidwill were at LSU/A&M game last night.
If they were there to scout Johhny Manzeil they may have left more impressed with LSU's Zach Mettenberger, who completed 11-of-20 passes for 193 yards and two touchdowns without an interception in chilly, wet and windy conditions. He found Jarvis Landry four times for 87 yards, including touchdowns of 40 and 10 yards.

LSU won 34 to 10.

Cards also met with Mettenberger at the Combine.

Last week Friday on the Wolfley & Doug show they interviewed Keim. Of course, he would not give anything away on whom they were interested. But when they mentioned the qb position Keim said it would be important to have someone that fit Arians system.
Zach best fits Arians system. If he is there in the 2nd round I think he will be their pick.
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
I think the Cards are all in on winning it all this year and a QB replacement for Palmer is on the backburner. I don't read a committment to selecting a QB high in this draft. Have the Cards even interviewed/brought in for a visit any of the current QBs in the draft? The window is closing for a few long-time Cards including DD and Fitz and John Abraham---win it this year. Our coaching staff has a lot of old guys who were brought in to win now. Arians sees him and Carson as old guys with one last chance before riding off into the sunset. Our good young coaches will be poached away by other teams if our D and our OL continues to develop.

Add that the SB is in our house. Have to believe that B Jr. wants to win it all for his father B Sr. I think the mandate is to get players in who will push us over the top this season---then we'll worry about QBs with a SB trophy in the building.

Any QB selected will be a late-round pick. Can't afford to spend a high pick on a QB who will hold a clipboard. Do you see ANY of the current QBs in the draft who would be capable of coming in and replacing a healthy Palmer as the starter. I don't. (And I will return to this thread to eat my plate of crow if the Cards take a QB in the first-round.)

I have thought this all along as well, Gimmedaball.

Last year Steve Keim said he's like to draft a QB every year if possible, but didn't draft one at all.

This year, to hear Peter King, who is usually very well informed, write that he is hearing the Cardinals will draft a QB in round 1 or 2, was surprising.

However, when you look at this draft---one of the deepest in a long time---what you realize is that there are possibly 10-12 studs---and then 120-140 very good prospects who grade very similarly. What that may suggest is that the Cardinals could feel good about taking one of the more highly rated QBs early, knowing they can still get good quality at other positions later in the draft.

The attractiveness of drafting a QB in the first round is knowing that with the 5th year option you have his rights for 5 years---which is especially attractive to a team like the Cardinals that has a veteran QB with 1-2 years left on his contract.

Thus, it wouldn't surprise me all that much if BA&SK hop on a QB they love early in this draft.

Like you, I tend to think the Cardinals will go all in to try to win this season, but I think their plan may include adding a player they will consider the QBOF, if they have a QB rated that high.
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,476
Reaction score
16,649
Location
San Antonio, Texas
I think the Cards are all in on winning it all this year and a QB replacement for Palmer is on the backburner. I don't read a committment to selecting a QB high in this draft. Have the Cards even interviewed/brought in for a visit any of the current QBs in the draft? The window is closing for a few long-time Cards including DD and Fitz and John Abraham---win it this year. Our coaching staff has a lot of old guys who were brought in to win now. Arians sees him and Carson as old guys with one last chance before riding off into the sunset. Our good young coaches will be poached away by other teams if our D and our OL continues to develop.

Add that the SB is in our house. Have to believe that B Jr. wants to win it all for his father B Sr. I think the mandate is to get players in who will push us over the top this season---then we'll worry about QBs with a SB trophy in the building.

Any QB selected will be a late-round pick. Can't afford to spend a high pick on a QB who will hold a clipboard. Do you see ANY of the current QBs in the draft who would be capable of coming in and replacing a healthy Palmer as the starter. I don't. (And I will return to this thread to eat my plate of crow if the Cards take a QB in the first-round.)

This is my argument, when are rookies going to be so significant in their first year that a whole draft class contributes to such an extent that they help win it all? They won't. I still say the draft is about what happens with players in years to come and if your banking on a draft class of rookies to get you to the promise land as a deciding factor in their first year... you are screwed
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
I don`t see Manziel in AZ.I have doubts about his style keeping him healthy enough to last a season.What works in college doesn`t mean it will work in the NFL.Maybe if he improves his pocket awareness so he doesn`t play rabbit too much.

I think you are probably right---but, there is a magic to Manziel that is very enticing, no matter who the coach or the system is.

Bill Belichick brought Manziel in for a visit. I wouldn't have thought that would ever happen. It just shows you how curious coaches and teams are about this guy.

It's going to be a moot point because some team is going to call his name well before #20. But. it's interesting to wonder about.
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
IMO QB Zach Mettenberger is the guy they want.

Kent Somers
FWIW: GM Steve Keim, VP Jason Licht and #azcardinals prez Mike Bidwill were at LSU/A&M game last night.
If they were there to scout Johhny Manzeil they may have left more impressed with LSU's Zach Mettenberger, who completed 11-of-20 passes for 193 yards and two touchdowns without an interception in chilly, wet and windy conditions. He found Jarvis Landry four times for 87 yards, including touchdowns of 40 and 10 yards.

LSU won 34 to 10.

Cards also met with Mettenberger at the Combine.

Last week Friday on the Wolfley & Doug show they interviewed Keim. Of course, he would not give anything away on whom they were interested. But when they mentioned the qb position Keim said it would be important to have someone that fit Arians system.
Zach best fits Arians system. If he is there in the 2nd round I think he will be their pick.

This makes a lot of sense---and even more sense if the Cardinals trade down from #20 and wind up with two 2nd round picks, one for Mettenberger and possibly even taking Landry, if he's available.
 

GuernseyCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Posts
10,123
Reaction score
5,681
Location
London UK
Carson Palmer
December 27, 1979 (age 34)

Any trade out of the first round means that Cards lose 1-year on the contract.
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
This is my argument, when are rookies going to be so significant in their first year that a whole draft class contributes to such an extent that they help win it all? They won't. I still say the draft is about what happens with players in years to come and if your banking on a draft class of rookies to get you to the promise land as a deciding factor in their first year... you are screwed

Think of the impact Mathieu and Ellington had on the Cardinals winning 10 games. Not sure how many games they would have won without them.
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,476
Reaction score
16,649
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Think of the impact Mathieu and Ellington had on the Cardinals winning 10 games. Not sure how many games they would have won without them.

But did they win the Super Bowl, far from it. That is what is meant by winning it all this year. You draft for the future. Yes, a player like Mathieu or Ellington can have an impact but Mathieu was not as significant as Washington at LB or Ellington have as much impact because Mendy was the starter. If this team wins a Super Bowl, it will be because of Veldheer protecting Palmer who had a year in Arians system with experience. It will be because Ginn was able to stretch the field and make some key catches not expected of him in a third and 4 for 5 yards because he ended up being the open man. It will be because an experienced TE in Carlson remains healthy and contributes. It will be due to the overall current roster on defense and coach Bowles, still playing at a high level minus Dansby. If you truly believe a QB in the draft is your QB of the future and your current QB is older, you pull the trigger because you draft for the future.
Palmer is getting up there in age. Docket is older. Fitzgerald is older with a huge contract currently in place to increase in what is owed him on the cap for the future. The Cardinals are fielding a team in 2015, and that is when the rookies after a year in the system make a major difference :)
 

DoTheDew

Registered
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Posts
2,967
Reaction score
0
The Cardinals have spoken highly of Carson Palmer, both in the short term and as their QB for another 3-5 years.

That being said, I think that any QB they are looking at is to fill the backup role, not the QBOF role. With that in mind, I believe they want a more polished prospect as opposed to someone who's really raw. I also think that means they are more interested in taking a QB in the 3rd round or later as opposed to the first 2 rounds.

I also don't think they believe that any of the QBs in this draft are sure QBOFs. I think Bridgewater and Manziel are good prospects, but overrated by many fans.
 
Last edited:

Garthshort

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
9,498
Reaction score
5,756
Location
Scarsdale, NY
Mitch, I can't see any way that Stanton is on the bubble. BA brought him in and he seems like a perfect backup QB, as he knows the offense. He might not be the long term answer but seems to fit the short term needs. Bridgewater and McCarron are West Coast types and don't seem to fit the BA offense like Mettenberger, though they might be better QB's, just not better for Arizona. Savage and Carr would also seem better suited, and maybe Fales, also.
 

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
I think you are probably right---but, there is a magic to Manziel that is very enticing, no matter who the coach or the system is.

Bill Belichick brought Manziel in for a visit. I wouldn't have thought that would ever happen. It just shows you how curious coaches and teams are about this guy.

It's going to be a moot point because some team is going to call his name well before #20. But. it's interesting to wonder about.

IF they do then some team is going to be drafting a QB again in 2 years.Would you trust your team to him? I sure as hell would not.I think he will give away as many as he will win.Yeah the kid has improv skills but sooner or later he`s goiung to have to follow a game plan because his wild rabbit routine wi9ll get him smashed in the NFL.
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,476
Reaction score
16,649
Location
San Antonio, Texas
IF they do then some team is going to be drafting a QB again in 2 years.Would you trust your team to him? I sure as hell would not.I think he will give away as many as he will win.Yeah the kid has improv skills but sooner or later he`s goiung to have to follow a game plan because his wild rabbit routine wi9ll get him smashed in the NFL.

BUT, he can throw the ball and can do so very accurately. I have seen him play within the pocket and throw out of it well. Because he is able in college to run around like a Mad Hatter does not mean he is incapable to adjust. I still have questions about his character. Not that he is going to do something illegal, but is he going to mature to be a good pro. You can get by with a lot in college and still be considered a hard worker because the results are easier to attain but the NFL is a demanding beast of having to play your best to keep up with all the superior talent. I think he can, but it is a reluctant 'I think he can' lol
 

juza76

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Posts
13,798
Reaction score
9,618
Location
milan-italy
Which are the differences between logan thomas and koepernick when he entered the draft?

If a coach like arians was interested to see him in a private workout cause probably he saw some good things on video about this kid and he may think with good coaching can improve his tecnique and become a solid starter.
Savage i dont know if he has someone important who is trying to make him more popular few weeks before the draft,but against the same opponents thomas faced last season he struggled much more.
Logan thomas also didnt have any good weapon in his team
 
Last edited:

GimmedaBall

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Posts
1,626
Reaction score
1,110
This is my argument, when are rookies going to be so significant in their first year that a whole draft class contributes to such an extent that they help win it all? They won't. I still say the draft is about what happens with players in years to come and if your banking on a draft class of rookies to get you to the promise land as a deciding factor in their first year... you are screwed

Better chance to plug in a top pick position player as a rookie than a top pick QB. The Cards defense and current scheme is missing but one or two players from being a #1 defense in 'this league.'

Adding a pass rushing DE/OLB and a safety who can cover TE's will go much further toward a winning record and shot at the playoffs than a QB who will have to sit for a year or two behind Palmer. Arian's playbook is a complex one that took Palmer most of the season to be comfortable with---our offense struggle with the WR routes, etc. A rookie QBOF will be needed at some point---but not this year. We're too close to compete for the big show to take the fourth-or-fifth rated QB with our top pick. Give me Shazier or Ford or Ha-Ha with that pick to solidify our D.
 

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
BUT, he can throw the ball and can do so very accurately. I have seen him play within the pocket and throw out of it well. Because he is able in college to run around like a Mad Hatter does not mean he is incapable to adjust. I still have questions about his character. Not that he is going to do something illegal, but is he going to mature to be a good pro. You can get by with a lot in college and still be considered a hard worker because the results are easier to attain but the NFL is a demanding beast of having to play your best to keep up with all the superior talent. I think he can, but it is a reluctant 'I think he can' lol

You have some good points but ................will he be able and willing to do what is needed to improve and mature and have the total dedication needed.
Isn`t the very thing that causes most rookies problems the speed of the game and adapting to how quickly situations can change.That isn`t going to be a Soph DE from Ole Miss chasing you.Its probably going to be a All American or highly rated and skilled proven NFL pro.
 

Jetstream Green

Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Joined
Feb 5, 2003
Posts
29,476
Reaction score
16,649
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Which are the differences between logan thomas and koepernick when he entered the draft?

If a coach like arians was interested to see him in a private workout cause probably he saw some good things on video about this kid and he may think with good coaching can improve his tecnique and become a solid starter.
Savage i dont know if he has someone important who is trying to make him more popular few weeks before the draft,but against the same opponents thomas faced last season he struggled much more.
Logan thomas also didnt have any good weapon in his team

This is why I think Logan Thomas would make a decent pick in the 6th round because you cannot get more developmental than him (and he has time behind Palmer) but you can also not get more talent than what he offers to shape. If it fails, it fails... no big deal for a 6th round pick. Now if your really serious about finding a QB that you think will work out, you go first round and take him. If you draft a QB early, it is because you believe that is your guy, because you just can't draft a QB early without tying the future of the team to him. So, if you do draft one early, it is because you feel strongly he is the real deal. If he is the real deal to you, you also do not play the value game crap and hope he is there in the second or third in my opinion. That is why if the likes of Arians and Moore think someone like Mettenberger is that kind of guy, I do not want them to wait till the second to gamble such an important piece to the franchise's future. I would want them to take him round one, to hell with what people think if they think he is a franchise QB

... if you do not think a QB is worth spending your first round pick on them, to me it says you do not really believe he is a franchise QB :)
 
Last edited:

mojorizen7

ASFN Addict
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Posts
9,165
Reaction score
472
Location
In a van...down by the river.
As far as later round projects go, i really like David Fales out of San Jose State.
IMO he has the smarts, the gunslinger mentality and accuracy that might overcome his average arm strength. He would fit nicely into a West coast offense. He would likely have to hold a clipboard for a couple years though.

I value straight up production over competition level with a lot of these draft prospects.
 

WildBB

Yogi n da Bear
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Posts
14,295
Reaction score
1,239
Location
The Sonoran Jungle - West
The Cardinals have spoken highly of Carson Palmer, both in the short term and as their QB for another 3-5 years.

That being said, I think that any QB they are looking at is to fill the backup role, not the QBOF role. With that in mind, I believe they want a more polished prospect as opposed to someone who's really raw. I also think that means they are more interested in taking a QB in the 3rd round or later as opposed to the first 2 rounds.

I also don't think they believe that any of the QBs in this draft are sure QBOFs. I think Bridgewater and Manziel are good prospects, but overrated by many fans.

No one is a sure thing. Closest you had to that is if you had the #1 or #2 picks. It's always a developmental project to go along with the God given ability of the individual.

King is speculating the "Cards are drafting their heir apparent this year.

They should have some targets in mind. McCarron's name keeps coming up as well as Carr and Metenberger. They wouldn't draft these QB prospects to be backups but eventual starters in 2 yrs. or so. That would put Palmer at 36 yrs. old, well past his prime. So now's the time to groom a future starter. If you don't develop one it's going to cost you down the line as an orginization. It's gonna happen.
 

juza76

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Posts
13,798
Reaction score
9,618
Location
milan-italy
This is why I think Logan Thomas would make a decent pick in the 6th round because you cannot get more developmental than him (and he has time behind Palmer) but you can also not get more talent than what he offers to shape. If it fails, it fails... no big deal for a 6th round pick. Now if your really serious about finding a QB that you think will work out, you go first round and take him. If you draft a QB early, it is because you believe that is your guy, because you just can't draft a QB early without tying the future of the team to him. So, if you do draft one early, it is because you feel strongly he is the real deal. If he is the real deal to you, you also do not play the value game crap and hope he is there in the second or third in my opinion. That is why if the likes of Arians and Moore think someone like Mettenberger is that kind of guy, I do not want them to wait till the second to gamble such an important piece to the franchise's future. I would want them to take him round one, to hell with what people think if they think he is a franchise QB :)

So if keim thinks mettenberger is the QBOF he will take him in the 1st?
I think they want be the 1st team playing superbowl at home,they need a pass rusher and a safety to make this defense the best in the business
 
Top