Ego vs. Talent

Harry

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I mentioned on another thread that I spent yesterday morning in a group session with some knowledgeable draft folks. I took the opportunity to ask several about their impression of the choices facing the Cards. More and more mocks have the Cards selecting Mahomes at 13. The first thing I wanted to know was whether they thought Mahomes' talent justified that selection. Out of 9 guys only 2 thought the pick could be justified on demonstrated ability. A couple doubters did note with his arm strenght that he might evolve into a decent choice but even they thought the odds were against it. 2 also said Mahomes was a second round talent.

That said many thought the Cards would choose him. I asked if this selection would be tied to BA's ego. I proposed that at his age it seems unlikely he will guide a team to the Super Bowl. So would developing a strong QB further solidify BA's legacy as a QB whisperer? His failure with Logan Thomas and Matt Barkley have already tarnished that legacy. Is BA desperate to get one final chance? Does his health necessitate that shot be this year? Of course, will Keim buy into this? How much influence does BA have? The consensus was picking Mahomes would be more emotion and less logic.

This is an extremely strong draft. Whether the Cards pick at 13 or move down this is a rare chance to get a player almost certain to help the team for years. If they stay at 13 a future Pro Bowl player is likely.

BA has done a great deal to make this team credible. The reputation of a perennial loser seems far in the past. Do the Cards owe BA this gesture? I'm definitely the cynical type. I say, "No." If the odds were better that the QBOTF was on the board; I'd jump in. I just don't believe the timing is right. In fact I'm not even certain Palmer leaves next year. Put a quality receiver and a second corner on this team and I think it's thin, but very talented. I think barring serious injury, it makes the playoffs. Once you're there anything can happen. The Cards have weapons. They would be a threat. Taking a QB will mean in round 2 choosing between a receiver and a CB. As receivers are in short supply and everyone expects a big run on corners this strategy looks risky. Likely they pick a corner. The lack of that extra weapon will adversely impact Palmer. The chance of a Williams or Davis being there for the Cards next year is slim. This type of receiver is rare. This in turn makes Palmer's return less likely with Fitz leaving and no certain replacement. The chances a year-two Mahomes is better than a year older Palmer is remote.

I fully understand the urgency fans feel about a QBOTF. They felt the same way before the Cards traded for Palmer or signed Warner. I'm only pointing out that not drafting a QB is not indicative of a disaster. I believe you take a near sure thing impact player when you can get one and one will be there this year!
 

MadCardDisease

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Corey Davis for the WIN! You know that I'm on board with this selection. I wouldn't mind Mike Williams either. A stud WR to pair with David Johnson for years to come would help Palmer and whoever our QBOF ends up being.
 

TheCardFan

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So would developing a strong QB further solidify BA's legacy as a QB whisperer? His failure with Logan Thomas and Matt Barkley have already tarnished that legacy. Is BA desperate to get one final chance?

Is BA's QB whisperer reputation overrated? He had Big Ben, Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, and Carson Palmer. How hard is that to be successful?

He also had Tim Couch as a rookie and Drew Stanton for 3 years (who he said he signed as a starter and has regressed significantly over the past two years). Can you imagine if Drew had been the starter?

He drafted Logan Thomas and kept Ryan Lindley...very questionable.

Great coach...love the guy but is he really a QB whisperer?
 
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WildBB

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There will be a lot of good CB' s available round 2 still. WR's will still be plentiful where we pick in round 3 as well.

I'd like to see them trade down and make their pick on QB, CB or ?
 

JeffGollin

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Kinda weird that Both Casserly and Mayock had the Cards trading up from #45 to grab Mahomes.

(It's one thing to go with the flow and pencil in Mahomes at #13, but both Charley and Mike made the extra effort of moving the Cards up into late round one in order to draft this one guy.

Makes me wonder: "What do these guys know?"

That said - I'd rather pass on Mahomes (Watson maybe. Or maybe Webb or Dobbs or even Peterman later on). We have several other holes to fill.
 

TheCardFan

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(It's one thing to go with the flow and pencil in Mahomes at #13, but both Charley and Mike made the extra effort of moving the Cards up into late round one in order to draft this one guy.

I would not be upset by this as long as we didn't give up a ransom to do it (no future 1st round picks). I still think its a super gamble but if BASK are going all in for a QB this year, I would rather they do it on a trade up from 2nd vs #13 overall.
 

cardsfanmd

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BA's "QB Whisperer" tag is honestly one of the dumber things that somehow gained traction and stuck around a while. It makes pretty much zero sense lol. I love the guy and wouldn't trade him in for another coach out there but it's just dumb. I laugh when I hear people say it.

Now, my labeling of Levi Brown as the Horse Whisperer.... that was gold.
 
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Harry

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I didn't say the label was justified. The question is whether his ego is based upon that label. Many of us act upon our self image, not necessarily our reality.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Kinda weird that Both Casserly and Mayock had the Cards trading up from #45 to grab Mahomes.

(It's one thing to go with the flow and pencil in Mahomes at #13, but both Charley and Mike made the extra effort of moving the Cards up into late round one in order to draft this one guy.

Makes me wonder: "What do these guys know?"

That said - I'd rather pass on Mahomes (Watson maybe. Or maybe Webb or Dobbs or even Peterman later on). We have several other holes to fill.

I'd be more than ok with them trading up late in the first for him. 13, nope. Too raw.
 
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cardsfanmd

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Oh it's def a good question you raised. I wasn't trying to take anything away from that. I think last year was the perfect example of what overinflated egos can do to a team. I think from the top down, everyone was wayyyyyy too full of themselves and the team. From talking about SB rings all summer to making that show, to sissifying TC to prep for a long playoff run, etc. Hopefully, everyone is back down to earth and centered now.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yeah I always questioned the QB whisperer thing too because it's not like he took 3rd and 6th round QBs and made them great. He took #1 overall picks and Ben (a likely HoFer) and made them great. Is it possible they don't achieve their greatness under someone else (happens all the time)? Sure, but he was an artist working with the best possible tools. Can't ignore that.
 

JeffGollin

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The hills are alive with the sound of egos.

I'd hope that BA would avoid that trap and have the broad wisdom and self-discipline to steer clear of that sort of stuff.

Unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way and many a good guy with an inflated sense of his self-importance has wound up flat on his keister.

Hey BA - Don't be that guy.
 

football karma

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i guess there is a "you can have it all" kinda scenario-

imagine something like this:

1. The defensive players the Cards love are all gone at #13.

2. Christian McCaffery is there, but Denver at #20 has the man crush and needs to get ahead of Philly at #14 to grab him. Cards trade down, pick up Denver's 1 (#20) 3rd ( #82) and 4th (#126) **Mitch promptly punches computer monitor**

3. At 20 -- the Cards grab the best WR or CB on the board -- think John Ross of WA, or Chidobe Awuzie of Colorado

4. Cards later trade #45 overall and #77 to go up to bottom or round 1 and take Mahomes or Kizer

5. At #82 -- fill in with CB or WR. Think Cameron Sutton, Tennessee at CB or Carlos Henderson, WR La Tech

so-- the trade values work (at least per the PFT trade chart fwiw). Obvs -- no idea if any of the other teams would want to do that

but-- there has been talk of trading down and taking a QB. There has been talk of trading up into the bottom of round 1 to get the QB. the "have it all scenario" is to do both -- trade down to get the extra 3rd round pick to give you ammo to ultimately trade back up

and BTW: ITS DRAFT DAY. This is like Christmas for me
 

Mr. Boldin

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We have needs at WR, ILB, CB, and S. We are in a position to fill two of those holes with starters in the first two rounds. I dont see how you can possibly go QB if you think we are a playoff team this season.
 

Mitch

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Oh it's def a good question you raised. I wasn't trying to take anything away from that. I think last year was the perfect example of what overinflated egos can do to a team. I think from the top down, everyone was wayyyyyy too full of themselves and the team. From talking about SB rings all summer to making that show, to sissifying TC to prep for a long playoff run, etc. Hopefully, everyone is back down to earth and centered now.

This.

And -- what makes the ego thing even more disturbing is how good the coaches and players thought they were despite getting their ever-loving' arses handed to them in the NFC Championship game.
 

MrYeahBut

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and BTW: ITS DRAFT DAY. This is like Christmas for me


Everyone who knows me has heard me call this Christmas Day!! Thursday is my usual golf day but I'm not going. I couldn't make a 2' putt if I tried 100 times, I'm thinking about #13 pick!

Someone start the draft thread already!!!
 

Cardiac

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Kinda weird that Both Casserly and Mayock had the Cards trading up from #45 to grab Mahomes.

(It's one thing to go with the flow and pencil in Mahomes at #13, but both Charley and Mike made the extra effort of moving the Cards up into late round one in order to draft this one guy.

Makes me wonder: "What do these guys know?"

Plus Peter King has us trading back into the 1st rd but he has us taking WR Ross. What do these guys know? Or maybe they read that BASK said they have all this ammo to move in the draft because of all the comp picks next year.
 
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Harry

Harry

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When I used to do the after draft ratings, King ranked at the bottom of the 20 I compared.
 
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