arthurracoon
The Cardinal Smiles
"great GM" according to Kaman. That was hilarious. We all know that Baylor is an idiot. Poor Kaman, he is a bust because he went to the Clipps.
Eldgin Baylor (the Clippers GM) is a...
- Thread starter arthurracoon
- Start date
jbeecham
ASFN Addict
Well what is Kaman supposed to say? Should he say "I think the GM of the team that just drafted me is a complete moron"? He has to at least try to say the right thing even if he doesn't believe it.
OP
OP
arthurracoon
The Cardinal Smiles
Yeah, but the way he said it was really uninspired and he sorta muttered it while frowning.
fordronken
Registered User
Well, if you change the "is" in his statement to "was" and "GM" to "basketball player", then I think he's probably right.
Chaplin
Better off silent
You guys don't get it. Elgin Baylor is a great GM. His hands just happen to be tied by Donald Sterling. Listen to their interviews--it's always "Mr. Sterling this" and "Mr. Sterling that"...
It's actually quite sad. But look at their roster--it is a pretty damn good roster--but outside issues away from the court (i.e. contracts) have ruined the team. Elgin Baylor put together the roster, but Sterling is preventing them from making the roster into a team.
It's actually quite sad. But look at their roster--it is a pretty damn good roster--but outside issues away from the court (i.e. contracts) have ruined the team. Elgin Baylor put together the roster, but Sterling is preventing them from making the roster into a team.
Matt L
formerly known as mattyboy
i have to agree with chap, that team had probably the most amount of god given talent in the whole league. its a shame that the owner won't either get a coach that could harness that talent nor does he keep the talent that he gets.
OP
OP
arthurracoon
The Cardinal Smiles
Actually, you make sense and I now agree with you. Thanks for enlightning me
Chaplin
Better off silent
Originally posted by arthurracoon
Actually, you make sense and I now agree with you. Thanks for enlightning me
No problem, my friend!
hcsilla
ASFN Lifer
I agree.
I'm not a Clippers fan but I liked how Baylor builded the team up with draft picks and trades.
As a simple NBA fan I find it pretty sad that the entire effort screwed up by Donald Sterling's cheap stupidity.
fordronken
Registered User
Um...he had a nice little run from '99-'01, but look at the other years.
Chris Wilcox, Melvin Ely, Michael Olowokandi(#1), Maurice Taylor, Lorenzen Wright, Lamond Murray, Terry Dehere, LeRon Ellis, Bo Kimble, Danny Ferry(#2).
From 1989 to the present the Clippers have had 12 lottery picks, and their lowest lone draft pick in a year ws #22 in 1991(LeRon Ellis). In that time, they managed to not find a single franchise player(although the jury is still out on some).
Now lets take a look at his run from '99-'01. He traded Chandler for Brand, which may still work out in the Bulls favor if Tyson keeps progressing like he has(although he would bolt by that time if he were a Clipper). But you can't really get on him for that. He drafted Darius Miles who seems to be headed into Bolivian to hang out with Mike Tyson. Luckily, though, he traded Miles for Andre Miller, who managed to have his worst(I believe) year in the league. His other picks were Lamar Odom and Quentin Richardson. Q will probably be a solid bench spark in the league for a while, and Lamar will be a guy who, if he ever does get himself together, it will be pretty far down the line(and, of course, with another team).
My question is, if Elgin Baylor has noticed(and I hope he has) the trend yet regarding players leaving the franchise after their rookie contracts expire, why does he keep drafting projects?
Chaplin
Better off silent
Drafting projects? I think he's a victim of drafting players they don't need. Kaman now is a need pick, but Wilcox and Ely were drafted to what? Play behind Brand for 10 years? Yes, there are questionable draft picks in the last 12 years, but how much input do you think Sterling has?
If there was a so-called potential star on the board, you think Sterling would take him? No way--he wouldn't want to pay the kid a ton of money in 3 years.
I am willing to bet any amount of money that last year Sterling told Baylor to draft Wilcox and Ely--and Elgin just nodded and said, "yessir, yessir".
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
I was going to post the same thing, but I felt my NBA knowledge wasn't quite up to snuff.
From time to time, I check out a Clippers message board. Some of the most ignorant fans I've encountered, I get laugh out of some of their takes.
I don't think Baylor has done a good job at all, and I totally agree, he hasn't found any franchise level players, despite being in the lottery every year. I bet if we had a string of even 3-4 seasons in the lottery, the Suns would have at least one or two franchise players.
Sure Brand is almost a franchise player, but I don't quite think he is. LO has a ton of potential, but his mental mistakes cost his team dearly. I think that overall, their talent is totally overrated.
elindholm
edited for content
I think that overall, their talent is totally overrated.
I wouldn't have agreed until last year. But last year, never mind the injuries, never mind the contract issues -- they just looked flat out terrible. I agree that Brand is probably not quite a franchise player, but he's clearly the best player on the team. Olowokandi rarely does much, Odom is out of control both on and off the court, Maggette doesn't do any one thing terribly well, Richardson is completely inconsistent, and Miles is looking like a disaster.
I think they're going to be a pretty bad team for a while.
I wouldn't have agreed until last year. But last year, never mind the injuries, never mind the contract issues -- they just looked flat out terrible. I agree that Brand is probably not quite a franchise player, but he's clearly the best player on the team. Olowokandi rarely does much, Odom is out of control both on and off the court, Maggette doesn't do any one thing terribly well, Richardson is completely inconsistent, and Miles is looking like a disaster.
I think they're going to be a pretty bad team for a while.
se7en
Go SUNS Go
I disagree with the assertion that Baylor isn't a great GM. Baylor made very high quality picks for franchise potential players. On any other team these players would be super stars today. The question is why aren't they?
Simple. sterling won't pay for veteran coaches and staff who are capable of developing and mentoring young players.
If Odom or Miles had been drafted by a team like the Suns, Lakers or Twolves is there any question that these players would be stars today? I don't think so. They would have had the propper coaching, mentoring and guidance needed to succeed.
The reverse is true. Imagine if the Clippers had drafted Amare or Marion or even Kobe. Does anyone really think these players would be the players they are today had they been drafted by the Clippers? I don't think so. The Clippers don't have nor do they want to pay for a staff to develop a player like Amare or Miles for that matter. Amare would have never gotten the coaching he needed. Hell they would have never had the right people in place to handle Amare's off court challenges. Odom is a good example. The Suns would have had a staff on Odom making sure he stayed out of trouble.
And these players don't just need veteran coaches to develop, they also need some veteran players to show them the ropes. The Clippers have rarely had smart, good locker room type veteran players to mentor younger players. How about diet and workout/training programs? Do the Clippers have a top flight program?
Add all of this up and you have a recipe for sure failure for ANY young player that is drafted by the Clippers.
Personally I think Sterling should be charged with Criminal neglect for not propperly developing these young players. If they are not going to spend the money needed to develop young 18 and 19 year old players than they should not be allowed to draft them. Once they get to a certain age you can never fix the damage that is done. Miles and Odom should have been the next young super stars. There is no doubt in my mind that had they been drafted by a quality team like the Suns and been given the support that Amare is getting that things would be different for these players.
That's my view on the Clippers. It's not Baylors fault. It's Sterling's fault for not giving him the money neccessary to develop these young players.
Simple. sterling won't pay for veteran coaches and staff who are capable of developing and mentoring young players.
If Odom or Miles had been drafted by a team like the Suns, Lakers or Twolves is there any question that these players would be stars today? I don't think so. They would have had the propper coaching, mentoring and guidance needed to succeed.
The reverse is true. Imagine if the Clippers had drafted Amare or Marion or even Kobe. Does anyone really think these players would be the players they are today had they been drafted by the Clippers? I don't think so. The Clippers don't have nor do they want to pay for a staff to develop a player like Amare or Miles for that matter. Amare would have never gotten the coaching he needed. Hell they would have never had the right people in place to handle Amare's off court challenges. Odom is a good example. The Suns would have had a staff on Odom making sure he stayed out of trouble.
And these players don't just need veteran coaches to develop, they also need some veteran players to show them the ropes. The Clippers have rarely had smart, good locker room type veteran players to mentor younger players. How about diet and workout/training programs? Do the Clippers have a top flight program?
Add all of this up and you have a recipe for sure failure for ANY young player that is drafted by the Clippers.
Personally I think Sterling should be charged with Criminal neglect for not propperly developing these young players. If they are not going to spend the money needed to develop young 18 and 19 year old players than they should not be allowed to draft them. Once they get to a certain age you can never fix the damage that is done. Miles and Odom should have been the next young super stars. There is no doubt in my mind that had they been drafted by a quality team like the Suns and been given the support that Amare is getting that things would be different for these players.
That's my view on the Clippers. It's not Baylors fault. It's Sterling's fault for not giving him the money neccessary to develop these young players.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Amen to that.
