elindholm weighs in

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,599
Reaction score
9,920
Location
L.A. area
Hey all,

Having not quite succeeded in my resolution to stop posting altogether, maybe what I'll do is offer a "catch-all" post every couple of weeks, then let people flame away at it. So here goes:

Salmons: I don't know enough about his game to have an opinion. But if the Suns wanted him (which they did) and didn't get him (which they didn't), that has to be interpreted as a failure.

The team is very thin right now. Piatkowski won't be a rotation contributor. Jones wouldn't have played at all in the playoffs had either Stoudemire or Kurt Thomas been healthy -- D'Antoni was loathe to use him as it was. They need more players who can contribute at a level adequate for a team with championship aspirations, and it's not at all clear where those players will come from.

The backcourt is particularly alarming. They have only three guards on the roster. Piatkowski most certainly does not count, and anyone who thinks Jones can log time at SG is delusional.

As far as the "It all depends on Stoudemire" argument goes, here's the thing. It's not black or white. If Stoudemire can contribute at 100%, the Suns are probably fine, and if he can contribute at 0%, they're probably in trouble. But most likely, his contribution will be somewhere in between. Given that no one knows what that level will be, doesn't it make sense to strengthen the rest of the roster? I would think so. Heaven forbid that they wind up with just a little more talent than they need.

Hardaway: This is perhaps the worst idea I have ever heard. He was a constant malcontent in Phoenix, New York told him to stay home rather than (further!) disrupt team chemistry, and Orlando didn't even want him to report. How much more evidence do you need? Furthermore, he has been the worst defensive player in the entire league for at least the last five years, and yes, that takes into account his number of steals.

Gooden: He's a better player than Kurt Thomas, but Thomas is probably a better fit for these Suns. And the Suns can't have four front-court players on huge deals, which would be the case if they added Gooden to Marion/Stoudemire/Diaw. So unless there's a plan to trade Marion or dump Diaw, Gooden makes no sense.

Kurt Thomas: He got injured last season in an up-tempo style, but it's important not to confuse correlation with causation. Maybe he's up to this tempo and maybe he's not; there's no way to know at this point. My preference would be to keep him, but trading him next summer without taking on longer-term contracts will be quite difficult, I think.

Jeffries: I assume that Washington would match an MLE deal, but if not, who knows, Jeffries could be an interesting addition. Any salary more than that wouldn't make sense for Phoenix, for the same reason as with Gooden.

Lampe, Jacobsen: Sure, why not.

I reserve the right to add to this post if I think of something else. :p

Oh, right: Piatkowski's nickname is "Pike." Has been for years, I believe.
 

Goldfield

Formally known as BEERZ
Joined
Sep 13, 2002
Posts
10,509
Reaction score
2,350
Location
ASFN
I do think signing Lampe is a nice addition on the cheap. Still very young with a good NBA body & sweet Jumpper. All upside.
 

krispydude

\_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_
Joined
May 17, 2006
Posts
1,057
Reaction score
0
Location
Peoria
side note: suns vs. pistons is on nbatv in 5 min. is this the game amare had like 10 fouls?
 

NastyOne

Suns 4 Life...Probably...Maybe
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Posts
520
Reaction score
0
Location
Charlotte
elindholm said:
Hey all,

Having not quite succeeded in my resolution to stop posting altogether, maybe what I'll do is offer a "catch-all" post every couple of weeks, then let people flame away at it. So here goes:

Salmons: I don't know enough about his game to have an opinion. But if the Suns wanted him (which they did) and didn't get him (which they didn't), that has to be interpreted as a failure.

Agreed, but im happy they didnt get him for that ridiculous contract for a 8th guy off the bench.

elindholm said:
Hardaway: This is perhaps the worst idea I have ever heard. He was a constant malcontent in Phoenix, New York told him to stay home rather than (further!) disrupt team chemistry, and Orlando didn't even want him to report. How much more evidence do you need? Furthermore, he has been the worst defensive player in the entire league for at least the last five years, and yes, that takes into account his number of steals.

Yeah i know he sucks now on defense, but i wanted him cause hes still a good passer.And maybe he rubbed some people the wrong way, but alot of his problems were overblown by the media.

He was my favorite player growing up, and i guess i still have a spot for him in my heart.:violin: (We do share a birthday!)

elindholm said:
Gooden: He's a better player than Kurt Thomas, but Thomas is probably a better fit for these Suns. And the Suns can't have four front-court players on huge deals, which would be the case if they added Gooden to Marion/Stoudemire/Diaw. So unless there's a plan to trade Marion or dump Diaw, Gooden makes no sense.

Thats exactly what i see happening if we get Gooden.He plays his current contract out and when his new deal kicks in we trade Marion for draft picks and players still on rookie deals.

elindholm said:
Kurt Thomas: He got injured last season in an up-tempo style, but it's important not to confuse correlation with causation. Maybe he's up to this tempo and maybe he's not; there's no way to know at this point. My preference would be to keep him, but trading him next summer without taking on longer-term contracts will be quite difficult, I think.

If we don't trade Kurt Thomas now, he'll get injured again playing our style of basketball and that will all but kill any value he might have left on the trade market.

elindholm said:
Jeffries: I assume that Washington would match an MLE deal, but if not, who knows, Jeffries could be an interesting addition. Any salary more than that wouldn't make sense for Phoenix, for the same reason as with Gooden.

Agreed, I wouldnt give Jeffries anything even close to what Gooden might get though, Atleast Gooden has proven to be a top notch rebounder.Jeffries for the right money would be great though.

elindholm said:
Lampe, Jacobsen: Sure, why not.

Lampe, Hell yes....CJ? No way in hell, cause even though i can live with him riding the bench and sucking, he'll always remind me of how bad i wanted Boozer(Duke Fan) and Prince and we passed on them for the clean cut white boy who they thought would draw more fans.

elindholm said:
I reserve the right to add to this post if I think of something else. :p

Oh, right: Piatkowski's nickname is "Pike." Has been for years, I believe.

It would be great it you would just start posting daily again Eric, but i understand if you don't.

And i'll just call Piatkowski "WTF" cause i'm sure ill be saying it a hellva lot when he makes his way onto the court.
 
Last edited:

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,115
Reaction score
6,551
elindholm said:
Hey all,

Having not quite succeeded in my resolution to stop posting altogether, maybe what I'll do is offer a "catch-all" post every couple of weeks, then let people flame away at it. So here goes:

Salmons: I don't know enough about his game to have an opinion. But if the Suns wanted him (which they did) and didn't get him (which they didn't), that has to be interpreted as a failure.

Agreed. Its a failure. Sooner or later they are going to have to realize that they will pay more than they are comfortable paying for players that they want. Going hard line with the deadline probably didn't help. These guys have such egos, you can't negotiate hardball and win--especially with a FA that can go anywhere he wants.

The team is very thin right now. Piatkowski won't be a rotation contributor. Jones wouldn't have played at all in the playoffs had either Stoudemire or Kurt Thomas been healthy -- D'Antoni was loathe to use him as it was. They need more players who can contribute at a level adequate for a team with championship aspirations, and it's not at all clear where those players will come from.

I'm not sure coach would have used KT either, when healthy. He wasn't useful in our style against the Mavs. But thats the style we play. Can't see how a guy who can't keep up is going to get pt on this team.

The backcourt is particularly alarming. They have only three guards on the roster. Piatkowski most certainly does not count, and anyone who thinks Jones can log time at SG is delusional.

As far as the "It all depends on Stoudemire" argument goes, here's the thing. It's not black or white. If Stoudemire can contribute at 100%, the Suns are probably fine, and if he can contribute at 0%, they're probably in trouble. But most likely, his contribution will be somewhere in between. Given that no one knows what that level will be, doesn't it make sense to strengthen the rest of the roster? I would think so. Heaven forbid that they wind up with just a little more talent than they need.

I'm delusional.

Hardaway: This is perhaps the worst idea I have ever heard. He was a constant malcontent in Phoenix, New York told him to stay home rather than (further!) disrupt team chemistry, and Orlando didn't even want him to report. How much more evidence do you need? Furthermore, he has been the worst defensive player in the entire league for at least the last five years, and yes, that takes into account his number of steals.

Agreed on Hardaway. Bad (in a bad way) to the bone.

Gooden: He's a better player than Kurt Thomas, but Thomas is probably a better fit for these Suns. And the Suns can't have four front-court players on huge deals, which would be the case if they added Gooden to Marion/Stoudemire/Diaw. So unless there's a plan to trade Marion or dump Diaw, Gooden makes no sense.

Kurt Thomas: He got injured last season in an up-tempo style, but it's important not to confuse correlation with causation. Maybe he's up to this tempo and maybe he's not; there's no way to know at this point. My preference would be to keep him, but trading him next summer without taking on longer-term contracts will be quite difficult, I think.

Gooden makes sense if KT doesn't--depending on the deal Gooden gets of course. More than 7 million or so is way too much. KT will likely be untradeable by next summer.

Jeffries: I assume that Washington would match an MLE deal, but if not, who knows, Jeffries could be an interesting addition. Any salary more than that wouldn't make sense for Phoenix, for the same reason as with Gooden.

The beauty of an S&T is that you can get all these messy details taken care of before you commit.

Lampe, Jacobsen: Sure, why not.

Yep, unless, for some odd reason we do multiple, guaranteed years.
 

Errntknght

Registered User
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
6,342
Reaction score
319
Location
Phoenix
Piatkowski most certainly does not count, and anyone who thinks Jones can log time at SG is delusional.

Delusional? James Jones won't be logging much time at any position if he doesn't get his shot back in the groove. However, if he does I'd certainly try him against some of the tall SGs that post up Leandro time after time.
 

arthurracoon

The Cardinal Smiles
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Posts
16,534
Reaction score
0
Location
Nashville
I concur.

I hope we get someone better than James Jones this offseason

We need more talent, even if Amare comes back 100%. talent wont hurt us.
 

TucsonDevil

Good to be back!
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Posts
2,575
Reaction score
19
Location
SLC, UT
You know, I was tempted to post a thread with an over/under for when Elindholm came back to post, but I didn't. Glad to see you back, even with a limited role.

EP/Pike/Pi still can be a viable contributor in the regular season. I think the Suns have such a different style of play that he could get 10-15 min a game. Let's get real, Eddie House, who would have a hard time defending in the WNBA saw the floor quite a bit in the first 82 games. EP will create spaces and hit down open jumpers at a high clip, allowing for greater penetration by Nash, LB, or others.

I might be drinking the Kool-aid a bit much at this point, but the Suns have given me little to PIMP this offseason.
 

Joe Mama

Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,501
Reaction score
964
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Louis said:
I'm not so sure Washington would match with Jeffries.

They just offered him a 1 year deal for just over $2 million.

that's the qualifying offer. They have to offer him that, or they can't match other teams' offers to him. I really do not think Jared Jeffries would sign a deal for the mid-level exception right now. My guess is that he would want something averaging at least $7 million per season.

Joe
 

nathan

ASFN Lifer
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
4,891
Reaction score
4
Location
Alexandria, VA
Nasser22 said:
I'm delusional. I like James Jones. :)
You're not delusional. He's improved every year he's been in the NBA. Next year he'll be more consistent.
 

pokerface

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 20, 2004
Posts
5,369
Reaction score
807
NastyOne said:
And maybe he rubbed some people the wrong way, but alot of his problems were overblown by the media.


Overblown? Most the time they were quoting the clown.


Its so nice to say...PENNY IS NOT ON THE SUNS. Its almost a religious experience just saying it...ahhhh
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
elindholm said:
Hey all,

Having not quite succeeded in my resolution to stop posting altogether, maybe what I'll do is offer a "catch-all" post every couple of weeks, then let people flame away at it. So here goes:

Welcome back.

Salmons: I don't know enough about his game to have an opinion. But if the Suns wanted him (which they did) and didn't get him (which they didn't), that has to be interpreted as a failure.

I agree, although I find attitudes on Salmons a bit strange. No one seemed to know anything about him until the Suns were rumored to be interested and then blamed the Suns stupidity for not getting him signed. If they were so brilliant in finding him, why weren't they brilliant in deciding he wasn't worth more than their TE?

If anything, I was more nervous about his shooting than most people. Yes, the Suns turned Boris around, but by that reasoning we should expect James Jones to become a super shooter this season.

The team is very thin right now. Piatkowski won't be a rotation contributor. Jones wouldn't have played at all in the playoffs had either Stoudemire or Kurt Thomas been healthy -- D'Antoni was loathe to use him as it was. They need more players who can contribute at a level adequate for a team with championship aspirations, and it's not at all clear where those players will come from.

I think Jones can become a good player, but he has a lot to prove.

The backcourt is particularly alarming. They have only three guards on the roster. Piatkowski most certainly does not count, and anyone who thinks Jones can log time at SG is delusional.

I think Boris can play guard, but then the Suns front line is alarmingly thin.

As far as the "It all depends on Stoudemire" argument goes, here's the thing. It's not black or white. If Stoudemire can contribute at 100%, the Suns are probably fine, and if he can contribute at 0%, they're probably in trouble. But most likely, his contribution will be somewhere in between. Given that no one knows what that level will be, doesn't it make sense to strengthen the rest of the roster? I would think so. Heaven forbid that they wind up with just a little more talent than they need.

I expect we will see a "different" Amare. Karl Malone was never as quick as Amare and lost a step or two in the 90's - but still got his team to the finals.

Hardaway: This is perhaps the worst idea I have ever heard. He was a constant malcontent in Phoenix, New York told him to stay home rather than (further!) disrupt team chemistry, and Orlando didn't even want him to report. How much more evidence do you need? Furthermore, he has been the worst defensive player in the entire league for at least the last five years, and yes, that takes into account his number of steals.

Anyone have a wooden stake? :bang:

Gooden: He's a better player than Kurt Thomas, but Thomas is probably a better fit for these Suns. And the Suns can't have four front-court players on huge deals, which would be the case if they added Gooden to Marion/Stoudemire/Diaw. So unless there's a plan to trade Marion or dump Diaw, Gooden makes no sense.

Kurt Thomas: He got injured last season in an up-tempo style, but it's important not to confuse correlation with causation. Maybe he's up to this tempo and maybe he's not; there's no way to know at this point. My preference would be to keep him, but trading him next summer without taking on longer-term contracts will be quite difficult, I think.

There are a lot of people who want to dump KT. I'm not sure there is much market for him short of expiring contracts. However, if some team was interested, the Suns could use their MLE on Gooden. I like Gooden for an MLE but not for a deal starting at $7 million.

Jeffries: I assume that Washington would match an MLE deal, but if not, who knows, Jeffries could be an interesting addition. Any salary more than that wouldn't make sense for Phoenix, for the same reason as with Gooden.

I can't see Jeffries being worth the cap issues even an MLE would require. He's a good player, but doesn't solve either their need for a backup PG or power player.
Lampe, Jacobsen: Sure, why not.

I'm inclined to give Lampe another chance because he's a big guy who can shoot. I'm not convinced Casey is more than a summer league guy.

I reserve the right to add to this post if I think of something else. :p
:raccoon:
 

JS22

Say Vandelay!
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Posts
5,791
Reaction score
211
It'd be great if you sucked it up and just posted again. We've had our differences in the past, but the board is less interesting without you posting.

That being said, make up your damn mind! :thumbup:
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
92,481
Reaction score
71,167
George O'Brien said:
I expect we will see a "different" Amare. Karl Malone was never as quick as Amare and lost a step or two in the 90's - but still got his team to the finals.

can anyone tell me why the different Amare should even be in a discussion with the 2nd leading scorer of all time, who was one of the best passing big men in the game, a multiple time all-defensive player and one of the best rebounders of all time, when Amare hasn't shown near the ability to do ANY of that, except scoring (which was due to his quickness/explosiveness). People like to throw the Karl Malone comparison a lot, but there's little evidence to prove Amare can ever be that kind of player. And another thing to think about, how many titles did Karl Malone win after he lost a step or two - oh yeah, none. How many titles did he win when he had a step or two - oh yeah, none.

The Jazz got the Finals because their old asses outlasted that generation's greatness - Hakeem was done, Barkley was done, the Sonics were finished, Portland and the Lakers were LOOOOONGGGG gone (and just beginning to come back). Basically, Stcokton and Malone continually got their asses kicked in the playoffs by all of those teams and then just held on long enough to get in that window before Shaq and TD began to dominate. That ain't the case with the West now, which is must tougher now, which is another reason that hoping an "Amare Malone" is hoping against hope.
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
Time will tell.

My point is that Malone's game evolved over time and there is good reason to believe Amare's will too. Malone was a college graduate when he entered the NBA, while Amare has not had even 3 years of organized ball following HS.

Malone's rookie numbers were similar to those of Amare. What Malone did that Stoudemire has not so far is become a consistent 10+ rpg guy, but he did have Mark Eaton to block out for him.

Malone was drafted in 1985 and was in the NBA for 9 years before the Jazz became a 60 win team. Malone was in his 30s when between 1994 and 1998 when the Jazz went:

1994-95 60
1995-96 55
1996-97 64
1997-98 62

IMHO, Amare has the tools and the drive to become the next Malone.
 

Hugh D'Man

Veteran
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Posts
225
Reaction score
0
He might have the drive...but will he have the wheels? The Mailman logged quite a few miles.
 

boisesuns

Standing Tall And Traded
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Posts
4,088
Reaction score
352
Location
Boise, ID
Hugh D'Man said:
He might have the drive...but will he have the wheels? The Mailman logged quite a few miles.

I think Amare can be similar to Malone in terms of the elbow jumshots that were very effective. Now if he can do some of the other things Malone can do with his knees, that will be an added benefit.
 

Joe Mama

Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,501
Reaction score
964
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I'll tell you guys exactly what I expect from Amare Stoudemire this year. I expect he will score a bunch of points off pick and pops, midrange spot ups, and the occasional drive to the basket. He will probably average about 7 rebounds per game. Defensively I expect him to the absolutely horrid. He will probably get into foul trouble most nights.

We'll see about the Malone comparisons. I hope he can be anywhere near that productive... without being such an a-hole.

Joe
 

boisesuns

Standing Tall And Traded
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Posts
4,088
Reaction score
352
Location
Boise, ID
Joe Mama said:
I'll tell you guys exactly what I expect from Amare Stoudemire this year. I expect he will score a bunch of points off pick and pops, midrange spot ups, and the occasional drive to the basket. He will probably average about 7 rebounds per game. Defensively I expect him to the absolutely horrid. He will probably get into foul trouble most nights.

We'll see about the Malone comparisons. I hope he can be anywhere near that productive... without being such an a-hole.

Joe

I hope you are right Joe. Amare has a lot of talent, but his knees are such a wild card. I think you are right on about his scoring. His game will look a lot different, but his limitations with his knees might actually help the team becuase his game will be different.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
16,800
Reaction score
15,277
Joe Mama said:
I'll tell you guys exactly what I expect from Amare Stoudemire this year. I expect he will score a bunch of points off pick and pops, midrange spot ups, and the occasional drive to the basket. He will probably average about 7 rebounds per game. Defensively I expect him to the absolutely horrid. He will probably get into foul trouble most nights.

We'll see about the Malone comparisons. I hope he can be anywhere near that productive... without being such an a-hole.

Joe

God, thanks for the pick me up Joe... we may never see an athlete like Amare in his first few years, that just kills me.
 

Joe Mama

Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,501
Reaction score
964
Location
Gilbert, AZ
ASUCHRIS said:
God, thanks for the pick me up Joe... we may never see an athlete like Amare in his first few years, that just kills me.

that's next season. I'm hoping he will keep improving all the way through the playoffs. Barring a major setback I figure he will look like an All-Star again this season after next.

Joe
 
Top