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The Polecat

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# 10
Will not miss the playoffs again. Not with Alvin Gentry coaching from the start and not if the main protagonists stay healthy. That's as far as we can go, though. Amare's future is the real story of the Suns' season.
 

Covert Rain

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# 10
Will not miss the playoffs again. Not with Alvin Gentry coaching from the start and not if the main protagonists stay healthy. That's as far as we can go, though. Amare's future is the real story of the Suns' season.

OK. I think the contribution of our young guys is the key. Sure Amare is important but we already know what we get with Amare. We already know that Amare can take us to the promised land alone. The key is going to be the bench. The key is going to be if this team can play a lick of defense.

This West is getting more and more competitive. I think teams have adjusted to more of the run and gun style of the Suns. The Suns are anything but a lock for the playoffs.


I say no. When I look at that list, I don't see one of those teams that I would say "we are definitely better then them".
 

TJ

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OK. I think the contribution of our young guys is the key. Sure Amare is important but we already know what we get with Amare. We already know that Amare can take us to the promised land alone. The key is going to be the bench. The key is going to be if this team can play a lick of defense.

This West is getting more and more competitive. I think teams have adjusted to more of the run and gun style of the Suns. The Suns are anything but a lock for the playoffs.

Nobody is a lock for anything, but given the talent on this team and now having the right coach in charge for the scheme, I'm confident we will be a 7 or 8 seed. Sans Shaq (who is addition by subtraction) we are bringing back essentially the same team. The system can be game planned against, but I cannot imagine it being contained more than 40% of the time.
 

Covert Rain

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Nobody is a lock for anything, but given the talent on this team and now having the right coach in charge for the scheme, I'm confident we will be a 7 or 8 seed. Sans Shaq (who is addition by subtraction) we are bringing back essentially the same team. The system can be game planned against, but I cannot imagine it being contained more than 40% of the time.

You mean the talent that replaced Frye with all all star at Shaq in the middle? You mean the talent in Lopez and Dragic that have yet to show much at all? For every player you consider talented on this team I can show you a player on one of the other West teams that has just as much talent.

Addition by subtraction? Oh, you must be referring to this team having one of the best offensive in the paint numbers all last season and now we are just going to magically replace that production with Frye or Lopez???

The only thing replacing Shaq is going to do is get you some better pick and roll defense. Wow.....so what. It's not like the pick and roll was the problem. It was dribble penetration. It was our guards allowing every PG to penetrate the paint. It was our perimeter defense. Shaq was not the problem there.

The biggest addition by subtraction in Shaq's case is the cost savings Sarver is getting by trading away his contract.
 

TJ

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You mean the talent that replaced Frye with all all star at Shaq in the middle? You mean the talent in Lopez and Dragic that have yet to show much at all? For every player you consider talented on this team I can show you a player on one of the other West teams that has just as much talent.

Addition by subtraction? Oh, you must be referring to this team having one of the best offensive in the paint numbers all last season and now we are just going to magically replace that production with Frye or Lopez???

The only thing replacing Shaq is going to do is get you some better pick and roll defense. Wow.....so what. It's not like the pick and roll was the problem. It was dribble penetration. It was our guards allowing every PG to penetrate the paint. It was our perimeter defense. Shaq was not the problem there.

The biggest addition by subtraction in Shaq's case is the cost savings Sarver is getting by trading away his contract.

If I said it before, Ill say it again: Shaq was clogging up the middle for the high octane offense. The offense looked so much different before Shaq came into the picture, it was ridiculous. At least Amare at the 5 again is going to produce better numbers and mismatches on the offensive side of the ball, as well as J-Rich and Grant Hill getting better numbers. The talent on this team can more than make up for the loss of Shaq. His main job was to stop the dribble penetration and he failed. Shaq did nothing for this defense and again, his offensive numbers can easily be made up for.

And once again, the word "defense" should not be uttered ever again on this board. This is not going to be a defensively strong team. Period. The team is going back to "run and gun." The argument for getting better defensive players is moot. Perimeter D no longer exists on this squad. Count on results being 115-111.

I never said Frye or Lopez would be the panacea for this team. I will say Frye adds some depth off the bench. Lopez totally blows, so I dont give a crap about him.
 

Covert Rain

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If I said it before, Ill say it again: Shaq was clogging up the middle for the high octane offense. The offense looked so much different before Shaq came into the picture, it was ridiculous.

You mean the offense looked prettier and more fun. Because the Suns still had one of the best offenses in the entire NBA with Shaq. So what you call clogging up the middle, I call getting easy baskets and making the team one of the best paint offenses in the entire NBA. Offense was not this teams problem while Shaq was here...it's defense.

What is the point of looking better offensively and score a few more points? We already were putting up big points with Shaq here. We just couldn't stop anybody because of the horrid guard play and oh yeah....Amare's piss poor defense before he got hurt.

At least Amare at the 5 again is going to produce better numbers and mismatches on the offensive side of the ball, as well as J-Rich and Grant Hill getting better numbers. The talent on this team can more than make up for the loss of Shaq. His main job was to stop the dribble penetration and he failed. Shaq did nothing for this defense and again, his offensive numbers can easily be made up for.

And..play worse defense from the center position and make the interior paint play much worse. Oh and by the way, Shaq's job was NEVER to stop dribble penetration. That is your guards job. All your FC can try and do is rotate when your guard gets burned (like Nash does so often). This coaching staff is worse then I thought if they were depending on a center or power forward to stop dribble penetration. When Amare was playing the 5 we had a terrible paint defensive team. When Amare played center he had trouble keeping any FC player with any amount of size out of the paint and opposing guards did layup drills knowing that Amare was our biggest FC player.

For every time Amare causes a mismatch on the offensive end I will show you a play with him getting worked by an opposing FC player or a guard that went right by him. So...let's call that what it is....it's a push.

Also, ofcourse you can make up for Shaq's points. Here is the big difference....it will be with jump shots. Your trading easy layups and dunks for much lower percentage jump shots. That means your team will end up taking alot more shots to make up for easy buckets. Can we make up those points? Ofcourse but it will be at a cost.

And once again, the word "defense" should not be uttered ever again on this board. This is not going to be a defensively strong team. Period. The team is going back to "run and gun." The argument for getting better defensive players is moot. Perimeter D no longer exists on this squad. Count on results being 115-111.

Once again...just because you don't have a good defensive team doesn't mean you should forget about it or not put your best foot foward so to speak. You just don't go "oh well" and ignore it. Better defensive play is never moot and it will slap this team in the face during every close game and especially IF and WHEN they make it to the playoffs.

I never said Frye or Lopez would be the panacea for this team. I will say Frye adds some depth off the bench. Lopez totally blows, so I dont give a crap about him.

Well then all your doing is moving Amare's points from Power Forward to Center (assuming that is what you meant). Your leaving a gaping hole at PF in division dominated by PF's (not centers). So your really not "making up" for Shaq. Your just moving that hole from Center to PF. The only way to make up for it is to find another FC besides Amare that can produce without taking away from your other positions by playing guys out of position.
 
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Mainstreet

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The bottom line no matter how one looks at it, the Suns do not have an interior defensive presence to stop opposing big men or penetrating PGs. So no matter how good the Suns offense looks it can not carry the team. Virtually every NBA team is just going to run it down the Suns throat... even the bad ones. So it really doesn't matter if the Suns play bad teams or good teams they are going to get beat by their matador defense. Someone will have to elevate his play among three players for this not to happen... Amare, Frye or Clark.
 

Ronin

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I'm not liking the hawks being ranked so high.......



I'm curious to see how Joe Johnson responds after not showing up in last year's playoffs.
 

Covert Rain

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I'm not liking the hawks being ranked so high.......
I'm curious to see how Joe Johnson responds after not showing up in last year's playoffs.

That is interesting. I am not sure they should be much lower though. They added Jamal Crawford and Joe Smith which should help but it's not like they added KG either.
 

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