Extra 3rd down?

[TheCardFan]

5 yard facemask added on to the end of the play...should have been 4th down!

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

5 yard facemask added on to the end of the play...should have been 4th down!

exactly like SF game...I hate this team...

 

[TheCardFan]

Its on the refs.

They gave Seattle an extra down.

Seattle even had the punt team out.

Whis blew it by not getting the official to stop play.

 

[Russ Smith]

Its on the refs.

They gave Seattle an extra down.

Seattle even had the punt team out.

Whis blew it by not getting the official to stop play.

It was during the play not after the play so the down was replayed after 5 yard penalty.

 

[TheCardFan]

It was during the play not after the play so the down was replayed after 5 yard penalty.

But it was 2nd and 18?

It was 3rd and 9 after the penalty.

 

[Assface]

But it was 2nd and 18?

It was 3rd and 9 after the penalty.

That's why I was confused. They got the yards from the play, the penalty yards and kept the down.

 

[Russ Smith]

3-18-SEA 40 (11:12) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass short left to 37-S.Alexander to SEA 44 for 4 yards (25-E.Green). PENALTY on ARZ-25-E.Green, Face Mask (5 Yards), 5 yards, enforced at SEA 44.


3-9-SEA 49 (10:56) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass short middle to 84-B.Engram to ARZ 25 for 26 yards (21-A.Rolle).

TV must have had the down wrong they had 3rd and 18 on radio.

 

[TheCardFan]

1-10-SEA 48 (11:55) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass incomplete short left to 81-N.Burleson. PENALTY on SEA-8-M.Hasselbeck, Intentional Grounding, 10 yards, enforced at SEA 48.
2-20-SEA 38 (11:50) 37-S.Alexander up the middle to SEA 40 for 2 yards (94-A.Smith).
3-18-SEA 40 (11:12) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass short left to 37-S.Alexander to SEA 44 for 4 yards (25-E.Green). PENALTY on ARZ-25-E.Green, Face Mask (5 Yards), 5 yards, enforced at SEA 44.
3-9-SEA 49 (10:56) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass short middle to 84-B.Engram to ARZ 25 for 26 yards (21-A.Rolle).

?

 

[FrustratedFan04]

That's why I was confused. They got the yards from the play, the penalty yards and kept the down.

I'm with assface. How did they keep the yardage, the penalty, and the down?

 

[dogpoo32]

I'm with assface. How did they keep the yardage, the penalty, and the down?

The fix was in.

 

[Chrome_Seahawk]

Honestly it was surprising to me as well and I didn't totally follow it....but if you look that the rules listed here http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/penaltysummaries it is a 5 yard penalty and does NOT result in the loss of down. It is more or less like a running into the kicker penalty.

 

[TheCardFan]

Honestly it was surprising to me as well and I didn't totally follow it....but if you look that the rules listed here http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/penaltysummaries it is a 5 yard penalty and does NOT result in the loss of down. It is more or less like a running into the kicker penalty.

They got the penalty and the play...without using a down.

 

[Chrome_Seahawk]

They got the penalty and the play...without using a down.

I don't claim to understand the enforcement of it, but the fact that Engram gained 26 yards on the following play kind of shows that the disparity in placement of the ball probably didn't end up mattering.

 

[joeshmo]

I don't claim to understand the enforcement of it, but the fact that Engram gained 26 yards on the following play kind of shows that the disparity in placement of the ball probably didn't end up mattering.

Would not have been the same play or the same execution. Butterfly effect.

 

[TheCardFan]

I don't claim to understand the enforcement of it, but the fact that Engram gained 26 yards on the following play kind of shows that the disparity in placement of the ball probably didn't end up mattering.

They had the punting unit on the field for 4th down.

The refs screwed up and said it was still 3rd.

They got the first down on 3rd down (and a td)...when they would have punted.

 

[Chrome_Seahawk]

They had the punting unit on the field for 4th down.

The refs screwed up and said it was still 3rd.

They got the first down on 3rd down (and a td)...when they would have punted.

Sorry bud, but you aren't paying attention - the question was whether or not the yardage that Alexander had gained should have counted, because there is NOT a loss of down - like I said, I'm not a ref, I don't claim to know - but it definitely should have been 3rd down - your guys are saying it should have been 3rd and 13, but it was marked as 3rd and 9 - My statement is that the yardage didn't end up mattering because Engram gained 26 yards on the next play.

Oh and BTW, "Butterfly Effect"?? Give me a break - it was 3rd and long either way you look at it....you might be able to claim that if it had been 3rd and 1 or two as the situations would have been very different.

 

[Gambit]

exactly like SF game...I hate this team...

indeed, was there a rule change I didn't know about?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Sorry bud, but you aren't paying attention - the question was whether or not the yardage that Alexander had gained should have counted, because there is NOT a loss of down - like I said, I'm not a ref, I don't claim to know - but it definitely should have been 3rd down - your guys are saying it should have been 3rd and 13, but it was marked as 3rd and 9 - My statement is that the yardage didn't end up mattering because Engram gained 26 yards on the next play.

Oh and BTW, "Butterfly Effect"?? Give me a break - it was 3rd and long either way you look at it....you might be able to claim that if it had been 3rd and 1 or two as the situations would have been very different.

Yep your right. And the seahawks still suck @ss.

 

[Fiasco]

Sorry bud, but you aren't paying attention - the question was whether or not the yardage that Alexander had gained should have counted, because there is NOT a loss of down - like I said, I'm not a ref, I don't claim to know - but it definitely should have been 3rd down - your guys are saying it should have been 3rd and 13, but it was marked as 3rd and 9 - My statement is that the yardage didn't end up mattering because Engram gained 26 yards on the next play.

Oh and BTW, "Butterfly Effect"?? Give me a break - it was 3rd and long either way you look at it....you might be able to claim that if it had been 3rd and 1 or two as the situations would have been very different.

The question isn't about the spot of the ball. The question is about getting a free down + the play + the penalty.

 

[Gambit]

Sorry bud, but you aren't paying attention - the question was whether or not the yardage that Alexander had gained should have counted, because there is NOT a loss of down - like I said, I'm not a ref, I don't claim to know - but it definitely should have been 3rd down - your guys are saying it should have been 3rd and 13, but it was marked as 3rd and 9 - My statement is that the yardage didn't end up mattering because Engram gained 26 yards on the next play.

Oh and BTW, "Butterfly Effect"?? Give me a break - it was 3rd and long either way you look at it....you might be able to claim that if it had been 3rd and 1 or two as the situations would have been very different.

I always thought a 5-yard facemask was tacked onto the end of the play, but the play stood--but this one looked like they got to replay the down, plus the result of the play, plus 5 yards tacked on. Same thing happened at SF. So, was there a rule change? Or was the TV wrong about the down? Because Seattle did have the punting unit out but switched it back to the O. So they thought it was 4th as well.

 

[TheCardFan]

Sorry bud, but you aren't paying attention - the question was whether or not the yardage that Alexander had gained should have counted, because there is NOT a loss of down - like I said, I'm not a ref, I don't claim to know - but it definitely should have been 3rd down - your guys are saying it should have been 3rd and 13, but it was marked as 3rd and 9 - My statement is that the yardage didn't end up mattering because Engram gained 26 yards on the next play.

Your kidding...right?

1-10-SEA 48 (11:55) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass incomplete short left to 81-N.Burleson. PENALTY on SEA-8-M.Hasselbeck, Intentional Grounding, 10 yards, enforced at SEA 48.
2-20-SEA 38 (11:50) 37-S.Alexander up the middle to SEA 40 for 2 yards (94-A.Smith).
3-18-SEA 40 (11:12) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass short left to 37-S.Alexander to SEA 44 for 4 yards (25-E.Green). PENALTY on ARZ-25-E.Green, Face Mask (5 Yards), 5 yards, enforced at SEA 44.
3-9-SEA 49 (10:56) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass short middle to 84-B.Engram to ARZ 25 for 26 yards (21-A.R

It should have been 4th and 9 but you got two 3rd downs!

This is simple math.

1st down: Grounding loss of down. = 2nd 20.
2nd down: SA rush for 2 yds. 3rd and 18.
3rd down: Pass to SA for 4 yds + 5 yd facemask = 4th and 9!

 

[Chrome_Seahawk]

Your kidding...right?

1-10-SEA 48 (11:55) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass incomplete short left to 81-N.Burleson. PENALTY on SEA-8-M.Hasselbeck, Intentional Grounding, 10 yards, enforced at SEA 48.
2-20-SEA 38 (11:50) 37-S.Alexander up the middle to SEA 40 for 2 yards (94-A.Smith).
3-18-SEA 40 (11:12) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass short left to 37-S.Alexander to SEA 44 for 4 yards (25-E.Green). PENALTY on ARZ-25-E.Green, Face Mask (5 Yards), 5 yards, enforced at SEA 44.
3-9-SEA 49 (10:56) 8-M.Hasselbeck pass short middle to 84-B.Engram to ARZ 25 for 26 yards (21-A.R

It should have been 4th and 9 but you got two 3rd downs!

This is simple math.

1st down: Grounding loss of down. = 2nd 20.
2nd down: SA rush for 2 yds. 3rd and 18.
3rd down: Pass to SA for 4 yds + 5 yd facemask = 4th and 9!

As I stated before - according to the rule book this penalty does NOT result in a loss of down - it is like a running into the kicker penalty, you get the play over - the question is whether or not the yardage should have been added onto the end of the play(which it definitely was) - I'm with you guys in that I believe it should have probably been 3rd and 13 - my contention is that Engram picked up 26 yards on the next play, so in the grand scheme of things the placement of the ball didn't matter - if he had only picked up 10 yards then it definitely would have....but he picked up 26.

As for the guy who somehow took my attempt to have an intelligent levelheaded conversation about this play and turned this into a "seahawks suck ass" comment - you guys won, fair and square - I'm glad you are happy, but why the need for that?? I'm not in here talking smack - and I'd be saying the same things if the Hawks had won - I'm not that type of a poster - so I'd appreciate the same sort of respect from you.

 

[TheCardFan]

As I stated before - according to the rule book this penalty does NOT result in a loss of down - it is like a running into the kicker penalty, you get the play over -

I really don't want to argue...rather, I would like to figure it out.

I don't think it's a loss of down...I think you get a 5yd facemask penalty added to the play...as Seattle did.

The issue becomes with the pass to Alexander on 3rd down and the penalty added to the end of the run...it did not result in a 1st down.

So...it was 4th down.

Seattle trotted out the punt team.

There was a pause...the camera showed the down marker at "3"...and Seattle was allowed a 2nd 3rd down.

 

[joeshmo]

Oh and BTW, "Butterfly Effect"?? Give me a break - it was 3rd and long either way you look at it....you might be able to claim that if it had been 3rd and 1 or two as the situations would have been very different.

Um apparently you dont get it. Neither coach would have called the same play call. It would have been a different time and different things going through their heads. It would have been a different defense play call, a different O play call, and even if it wasnt each team and players would have played differently in the same situation.

Its like if you leave work 5 seconds early and dont get into a crash that you would have gotten into if you didnt leave that 5 seconds early. You are going to get behind a different set of cars, different lights, and so on, even though you are driving the same car and driving the same route.

 

[SunDevilDon]

I really don't want to argue...rather, I would like to figure it out.

I don't think it's a loss of down...I think you get a 5yd facemask penalty added to the play...as Seattle did.

The issue becomes with the pass to Alexander on 3rd down and the penalty added to the end of the run...it did not result in a 1st down.

So...it was 4th down.

Seattle trotted out the punt team.

There was a pause...the camera showed the down marker at "3"...and Seattle was allowed a 2nd 3rd down.

We covered this after last week. I didn't see the play, but if it is second and 10 for example, and you gain 3 yards and an incidental facemask, it would be second and 3. From what I've been reading, looks like the ref accidentally said FOURTH instead of third and that's where the confusion sets in. To be honest, I think the rule should be changed so the five yards is just TACKED ON instead of a repeat of downs, but if you think about running into the kicker, it makes more sense because if you run into the kicker ON FOURTH DOWN, and it's fourth and 10, they get 4th and five, they don't LOSE THE DOWN...

Think they should change it for the facemask though, but that's just my opinion (and maybe the ref's that screwed up and said 4th down too).