Feb. 5th Insider - fire sale

sunsfn

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10 teams on the hunt for the missing piece

By Chad Ford
NBA Insider
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Thursday, February 5

On Tuesday, Insider broke down five teams contemplating a fire sale as the Feb. 19 trade deadline approaches.
Who will be the buyers? It depends on the objective.
Several teams feel they may be just a piece or two away from making a serious run in the playoffs. With so much parity and so many teams stumbling through the first half of the season, several GMs recognize a perfect opportunity to make a run while they have the chance.
Another group of teams isn't looking for a playoff boost. Instead, they're hoping to clear some extra cap space to make a run at a top free agent like Kobe Bryant this summer. Or, they're trying to get below the luxury-tax threshold that owners hate to pay.
Who are they? We thought you'd never ask ...
Hunting for the last piece of the puzzle

New York Knicks: Isiah Thomas not only wants to make the playoffs this year, he wants to win ... now. An extended playoff run is the perfect tonic for what ails the long suffering fans at MSG, and Thomas knows it. He's been as active as any GM in the league ... though his task is getting pretty tough. Keith Van Horn, Shandon Anderson and now Frank Williams have been the trade bait. Williams will be easy to move, but Van Horn and Anderson are both major challenges.
Isiah would love to add another young, athletic frontcourt player who can run the floor and score in the post. That sure sounds a lot like Rasheed Wallace, Shareef Abdur-Rahim or Antawn Jamison. Do the Knicks have the pieces to get anything like that done? It doesn't look like it at the moment. Kurt Thomas is the Knicks' last valuable trade chip, but Isiah wants to keep him.

Dallas Mavericks: Every year about this time, Mark Cuban and Don Nelson begin preaching the virtues of sticking with the roster they have. And just about every year around this time, the Mavericks end up making a huge trade.

Mark Cuban would like to add a big man before the trade deadline.
The Mavericks need a tough big man, and everyone knows it. They tried to land Rasheed Wallace last month, but talks went nowhere. Attempts to land Zydrunas Ilgauskas also have fallen short. What they'd really love to have is the package Golden State is offering right now -- Nick Van Exel and Erick Dampier. Problem is, the Mavericks don't have any expiring contracts to give up unless ... Antoine Walker decides to opt out if traded to the Warriors.
Another trade that could make some sense for Dallas? Sending Walker to the Sonics for Brent Barry, Jerome James and Calvin Booth. Barry could give the Mavericks the backcourt depth they've been seeking, and James and Booth are both big bodies who could do really well in Dallas. Booth had the best year of his career playing in Dallas for half a season, and James has the strength and athleticism the Mavs are looking for.
Would a change of scenery change his attitude? In Seattle, Walker would be a perfect fit in the Sonics' offense and give them some much-needed help at the four. He's also low risk. Even if he doesn't opt out of his contract this summer, he only has one more year left on his deal. The long-term savings the Sonics could receive, if Walker didn't pan out, could be substantial.

Toronto Raptors: The early December trade of Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams for Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall gave the team a huge spark. But it also shipped away the one and only center in Toronto. Chris Bosh has done an admirable job in the middle, but various injuries and the inevitable rookie wall are starting to slow him down.
If the Raptors want to make a deep playoff run, they need a veteran patrolling the middle. They've pursued Dale Davis in Portland, Theo Ratliff in Atlanta, Zeljko Rebraca in Detroit and Michael Doleac in New York, but so far they've yet to strike gold. The Raptors do have enough assets with expiring contracts (Michael Curry, Michael Bradley, and Morris Peterson) to get something done ... so why haven't they?
If none of those players is available, what about Elden Campbell in Detroit, Jahidi White in Phoenix, Derrick Coleman in Philly or Jerome James in Seattle? All four players can be had for the right price ... which just so happens to be an expiring contract or two. Another deal worth considering? Peterson, Curry and Bradley for Brendan Haywood and Christian Laettner. If the Raptors can swallow one more year of Laettner's deal, Haywood is a pretty decent prize.

Memphis Grizzlies: Jerry West has done an amazing job of turning the Grizzlies from the laughingstock of the league into a serious contender for the playoffs in just a season and a half as team president. With Hubie Brown considering retirement at the end of the season, West wants to give his players a positive playoff experience under Brown before it's too late.
The Grizzlies' biggest weakness is in the middle -- a problem West has been trying to solve since July 1. He's probably wishing he had Wesley Person and Brevin Knight back right about now. A combination of those two expiring contracts along with Stromile Swift's expiring deal could have landed him Dampier and Van Exel.
The guy they have their eye on now is Eddy Curry. Would a combo of Swift and Shane Battier get it done if the Grizzlies took back one of the Bulls' bad contracts (Eddie Robinson) in return? There's also some mild interest in Jerome James, but the Grizzlies won't swap Swift for James straight up.

Boston Celtics: Now that the Celtics are in official rebuilding mode, Danny Ainge might as well wipe out the last remnants of the Rick Pitino-Chris Wallace era while everyone is already hurting. If you're going to rip the band-aid off -- do it quickly.
Ainge has one last bullet in his gun. Chris Mills' $6.6 million deal comes off the books this summer and insurance is picking up 80 percent of his salary this season. Pair him with Chris Mihm (who won't be eligible to be traded until Feb. 15) and Walter McCarty, and the Celtics could get back something nice in return. Word is they've already pursued Brent Barry. A player like Juwan Howard also could make some sense.

Cutting the cap

Detroit Pistons: Joe Dumars knows he has to get more than $6 million under the cap if he's going to have any chance to re-sign Mehmet Okur. Corliss Williamson and Chucky Atkins are the trade bait. Both players are talented with slightly bloated contracts. Neither, however, is untradeable. Dumars needs an expiring contract back in return and will be working the phones right up until the deadline in an attempt to get $8-10 million under the cap for this summer.

Phoenix Suns: They cleared a ton of cap space when they shipped Stephon Marbury and Penny Hardaway to New York. But if they're going to be a big-time player in free agency, they need to get one more contract off the books. Their efforts have centered on moving Jahidi White who, ironically, they swapped Brevin Knight and his expiring contract for earlier this year when they still believed they'd be a playoff contender. With teams like the Raptors desperate for a big man, can Bryan Colangelo get something done? If he does, the Suns could be looking at $12-14 million in cap room this summer. Otherwise, $6.5 million is a more accurate assessment.

Los Angeles Clippers: The Clips already are looking at roughly $12 million in cap space this summer. If they choose to not pick up Marko Jaric's option, that number goes to $14 million. However, that still may not be enough to get Kobe Bryant. That's why there's so much talk about them trading away Melvin Ely. He doesn't get playing time right now anyway, and getting that $1.75 million off the books for next season could make all the difference in the world.

Washington Wizards: If Ernie Grunfeld can find a way to get Christian Laettner (one year, $6.6 million left) off the books, the Wizards could also be big players in this summer's free-agent market. With Laettner gone, they'd be looking at around $8 million in cap space. Even better, if they can package him with Larry Hughes (who becomes expendable with Jerry Stackhouse back) the savings could increase to $13 million.

Milwaukee Bucks: Larry Harris has done an unbelievable job of cutting payroll while still putting a very competitive team on the floor. If he could find someone willing to take the last two years of Tim Thomas' contract off his hands, the Bucks could be $10 million under the cap next year as well.

Around the League

Sonics, Bulls should make a deal Not on the list above, but just as popular, are the Sonics a team that still doesn't know exactly where it stands. The team has been a solid success story this season and, with Ray Allen now in All-Star form, the playoffs certainly don't seem out of the question. In the last few month the team has discovered one young potential star, Ronald Murray, and found out that Antonio Daniels, with his tough defense and top assist-to-turnover ratio, can make Nate McMillan a very happy man.
So what now? GM Rick Sund has been preaching patience since this summer. He knows that the Sonics are in the throes of rebuilding and doesn't want to act too rashly or give up on any young player too quickly. With that said, teams are knocking down his door right now trying to get at three or four players that everyone believes should be available -- Brent Barry, Vladimir Radmanovic, Jerome James and, to a lesser extent Murray. With the Sonics clearly in need of a low post scorer and rebounder, is it time to pull the trigger and make a deal?
Everyone from the Celtics, Bulls and Pacers have been after Barry -- even though he's out the next four weeks with a broken finger on his shooting hand. Several teams, in desperate need of a center for a playoff run, think they can rehabilitate James. Radmanovic and Murray are seen as talented prospects that just don't fit what Seattle is doing right now.
Still, Sund has been reluctant to pull the trigger on a trade. Can someone make the Sonics an offer they can't refuse? If the Bulls offered Jamal Crawford, Eddy Curry and say Jerome Williams for Barry, Radmanovic, James and Murray -- wouldn't the Sonics have to consider? Curry, despite his struggles in Chicago, is still one of the most promising centers in the league. He just needs a change of scenery. Crawford, a home town guy, would love to play in Seattle and would be great in the back court with Ray Allen. Williams is the type of high energy, rebounding force that McMillian would love to have -- at least until Nick Collison is ready to contribute. The Bulls would be set in the back court with Barry, Murray and Kirk Hinrich. Radmanovic gives them the perimeter shooting and versatility they crave and James, for what's it's worth, is a big body with only one year left on his contract. The fact that all players come off the books soon, and that them move Williams long term deal, has to be a big plus to the Bulls. Bulls fans won't like this trade, but this is what it's coming to in Chicago.

Blazers pushing Stoudamire? Talks of a Nick Van Exel and Erick Dampier to Portland for Rasheed Wallace trade is on the back burner at the moment. It's the best deal the Blazers have been offered, but no one is sure whether it's good enough. The Warriors are desperately trying to move Van Exel and it's pretty hard to see how they'll find any other team willing to take his contract and be willing to give up an expiring contract in return.
That's spawned speculation that the Blazers also want the Warriors to take on the last year of Damon Stoudamire's contract to make the deal more palatable for Portland. That's much more problematic for the Warriors. The Warriors are interested in moving Van Exel and Erick Dampier now to get under the cap for this summer. Taking on Stoudamire would make that much tougher. The Blazers are said to want the expiring contracts of Avery Johnson and Adonal Foyle as part of the deal. That just doesn't work for Golden State. To stay far enough under the cap for the deal to make sense, the Blazers would have to be willing to take back Cliff Robinson, Evan Eschmeyer and Popeye Jones to make Stoudamire part of the trade. If the Blazers agreed to that, the Warriors would still be $17 million under the cap this summer. They could easily afford to work out a buyout with Stoudamire for his last season. Would the Blazers be willing to swallow one more year of Robinson's contract and three more year's of Eschmeyer's to dump Sheed and Damon? That seems like a dream deal for the Blazers -- especially if they can also get Dale Davis out of town.

NBA age limit dealt a death blow? Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett was ruled eligible for the NFL draft today by a federal judge who concluded that the league's rule violates antitrust laws. The judge ordered the NFL to let Clarett enter April's draft. If the ruling holds up on appeal, it could be a death blow to the NBA trying to establish a minimum age to enter the league. League lawyers and the players association have long worried that any age limit, even if collectively bargained could lose a legal challenge. This ruling seems to confirm their worst fears.



:thumbup:
 

George O'Brien

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For all of his limitations, I get the impression that White has a certain amount of market value. Doing a deal with Toronto only makes sense if the Suns get a future pick in process.
 

Joe Mama

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NBA age limit dealt a death blow? Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett was ruled eligible for the NFL draft today by a federal judge who concluded that the league's rule violates antitrust laws. The judge ordered the NFL to let Clarett enter April's draft. If the ruling holds up on appeal, it could be a death blow to the NBA trying to establish a minimum age to enter the league. League lawyers and the players association have long worried that any age limit, even if collectively bargained could lose a legal challenge. This ruling seems to confirm their worst fears.

This is why I hope the owners do not give up any bargaining chips to get a minimum age limit. I don't think you will ever holed up in court.

Joe Mama
 

Chaplin

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And really, if they don't get the age limit, the only real option they have to curtail this influx of young, "upside" talent is to create a REAL developmental league. I still think it can be done.
 

slinslin

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I think age limit the biggest piece of "sorry" crap.

The problem is the NCAA in my opinion. They should allow everybody who doesn't get a guaranteed contract to return to college and continue to play in the NCAA.

Instead they keep exploiting those players and pretend that they worry about their education.
 

Chaz

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Good points guys. Ithink part of the problem for the NFL and the Clarett issue is there was no viable place for Clarett to go if the NFL doesn't allow him in.

A true "minor league" system in the NBA for players would solve the problem on two fronts. It would allow the HS players and underclass college players to be employed by the NBA therefore eliminating the need for an age limit. It would also allow those players to develop the needed skills and experience to play in the NBA at a high level therefore increasing the entertainment value and removing the reason they currently want an age limit.
 

Chaplin

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The main problem with a developmental league, though, is that it would probably run into a lot of competition with the NCAA. When does "upside" come into play, and should it overrule an actual college education?
 

Chaz

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Originally posted by Chaplin
The main problem with a developmental league, though, is that it would probably run into a lot of competition with the NCAA. When does "upside" come into play, and should it overrule an actual college education?


The NCAA insists on the guise of amatuerism. I don't see where if people want to play basketball and are not interested in college why should they go through the ruse of acting like a student?

Maybe a real developmental league would force the NCAA to give some these college players an allowance of some kind.

I don't think the main concern of a developmental team would be the competition from college basketball. College basketball will always have its fans. I think a developmental league could still carve out a market in smaller towns as the CBA did for years. If the NBA product is improved by the developmental league then they could afford to support it financially.
 

George O'Brien

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Originally posted by SirChaz

I don't think the main concern of a developmental team would be the competition from college basketball. College basketball will always have its fans. I think a developmental league could still carve out a market in smaller towns as the CBA did for years. If the NBA product is improved by the developmental league then they could afford to support it financially.

I have never figured out if the absence of a true minor league, like baseball and hockey, is due to opposition by the players association or short sightedness by the owners.

Europe is not a very good minor league for the NBA because they have such a different way of calling the games. Big men from Europe are completely unprepared for how physical the NBA is.

The American minor leagues do not have the money for specialized coaching and skills development like they have in Europe. Nor is there the quality of officiating needed to really prepare players.

Young players need to play and need to practice. A full fledged affiliated minor league would go a long way to developing good players.
 

Chaz

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Originally posted by George O'Brien
I have never figured out if the absence of a true minor league, like baseball and hockey, is due to opposition by the players association or short sightedness by the owners.

Europe is not a very good minor league for the NBA because they have such a different way of calling the games. Big men from Europe are completely unprepared for how physical the NBA is.

The American minor leagues do not have the money for specialized coaching and skills development like they have in Europe. Nor is there the quality of officiating needed to really prepare players.

Young players need to play and need to practice. A full fledged affiliated minor league would go a long way to developing good players.

If the NBA could could retain the rights to players beyond the 12 man limit without hiding guys on the IL. Guys like Kerr, Stephen Jackson, and Jayson Williams might have played for the Suns.

Today players like Ebi and Lampe could benefit greatly from playing time and instruction in a minor league. It would help improve the quality of play especially for big men.
 

KingLouieLouie

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Originally posted by George O'Brien
I have never figured out if the absence of a true minor league, like baseball and hockey, is due to opposition by the players association or short sightedness by the owners.

Europe is not a very good minor league for the NBA because they have such a different way of calling the games. Big men from Europe are completely unprepared for how physical the NBA is.

The American minor leagues do not have the money for specialized coaching and skills development like they have in Europe. Nor is there the quality of officiating needed to really prepare players.

Young players need to play and need to practice. A full fledged affiliated minor league would go a long way to developing good players.

Perhaps the N.B.A. could establish some affiliation with the Continental Basketball Association and expand that league to 29 teams that would be affiliated with their NBA counterpart..... That would enable each team in the league to not be limited to 12-14 players to be available on their respective roster....The only issue that I dont know how to factor into all of that is the salary cap ramifications.....
 

Chaz

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Originally posted by KingLouieLouie
Perhaps the N.B.A. could establish some affiliation with the Continental Basketball Association and expand that league to 29 teams that would be affiliated with their NBA counterpart..... That would enable each team in the league to not be limited to 12-14 players to be available on their respective roster....The only issue that I dont know how to factor into all of that is the salary cap ramifications.....

Well the CBA is no more so your right but to late. I think Isiah Thomas wanted to do something like that when he bought the CBA. I am not sure they could field 29 or 30 "minor league" teams today. They may have to have a regional team of some kind with several teams sending players there. I am not sure how to work the coaching in that type of situation however.

I'm sure that if you could retain more than 15 players the salary cap would be adjusted to compensate for a larger team roster.
 

KingLouieLouie

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Originally posted by SirChaz
Well the CBA is no more so your right but to late. I think Isiah Thomas wanted to do something like that when he bought the CBA. I am not sure they could field 29 or 30 "minor league" teams today. They may have to have a regional team of some kind with several teams sending players there. I am not sure how to work the coaching in that type of situation however.

I'm sure that if you could retain more than 15 players the salary cap would be adjusted to compensate for a larger team roster.

According to this link the CBA still exists with only 7 teams....

Probably the best case scenario would have 4 NBA teams affiliated with each of the 7, so to break it down further there would be 3-players from each NBA on those teams.....

I agree with it being done regionally....Trying to clarify what I was saying earlier (while using the Suns as an example), the closest team their in proximity to is probably the Idaho Stampede, so the Suns would have someone like Googs, Harvey, and Lampe each getting more playing team and in Googs case he could somewhat be showcasing himself, while the other 2 further hone their skills.... I think geographically speaking, the other teams that would be affiliated with the Stampede would be the Spurs, Rockets, and Mavericks.....

Coaching is an interesting issue though obviously because you don't want someone who is partial and wouldnt be biased about who plays....The coaches wouldnt be affiliated with the NBA in terms of how they are paid.....They would be under contract through the CBA and would use the players accordingly to how their parent NBA coach would dictate, but somehow for the full benefit of everyone involved (which would be extremely complex to do though)......

We know how each NBA team has about 3-4 assistant coaches, well one of them would be assigned from each team to serve was some sort of intermediary to over-see that the 3 players he is serving for each get used properly and receives the instruction they need.....

I guess it is extremely complex to construct something like that though....
 

Chaz

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Well my bad, I thought the CBA had gone bankrupt.


The head coach of a developmental team would have to be employed by the league. Maybe an assistant from each team but that would create its own problems and conflicts.

Also I don't think veterans like Googs should be sent down. Probably just guys with less than 2 years NBA experience or players that are still under an certain age.
 
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George O'Brien

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I'm not sure that it would be that hard for the teams to create a minor league with one team for each NBA team. Just limit the active roster to 11 guys and the minor league team to 10 guys with no IR. That is about the number of players most teams bring to training camp anyway.

I would make it a series of minor leagues so that they could save on travel.

The advantage of having total control is that the younger players would get consistent terminology, training in the offense the parent team runs, and consistent techniques training.

Injured players could work their way back into shape on the minor league team, which would add to the attendence at their games.

From the perspective of the players association, these players could be brought up under the 10 day contract system like is currently in place and after that they have to get the minimum salary. Nothing is changed except that more players get more money.
 

Ryanwb

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Originally posted by slinslin
I think age limit the biggest piece of "sorry" crap.

The problem is the NCAA in my opinion. They should allow everybody who doesn't get a guaranteed contract to return to college and continue to play in the NCAA.

Instead they keep exploiting those players and pretend that they worry about their education.

The NCAA is made up of schools that the American tax payers assist, state funded colleges. They are institutions of higher education, not a developmental league for the NBA :roll:
 

elindholm

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The NCAA is made up of schools that the American tax payers assist, state funded colleges. They are institutions of higher education, not a developmental league for the NBA.

That wouldn't prevent colleges from educating athletes who will later become pros. It's often the case that students will have job offers lined up before they graduate, but they still finish their time in school and participate in other activities. There's no fundamental conflict presented by using taxpayer dollars to educate people who already have jobs lined up. Child actors, tennis players, or budding computer whizzes are permitted to attend state schools, so why shouldn't basketball players be?

However, I agree that any "student-athlete" should be held to legitimate academic standards, rather than being waved through one course after another in the interests of the athletic program. Any school that gives an athlete a rubber-stamp degree when everyone knows he didn't earn it does a great disservice to its reputation.
 

Chaz

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Originally posted by Ryanwb
The NCAA is made up of schools that the American tax payers assist, state funded colleges. They are institutions of higher education, not a developmental league for the NBA :roll:

All the more reason the NBA needs its own developmental league.
Let college ball be for the true student athlete. I will still watch college ball.
School rivalries and good teaching of basketball in the college game will not go away.
 

Chaz

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Phoenix Suns: They cleared a ton of cap space when they shipped Stephon Marbury and Penny Hardaway to New York. But if they're going to be a big-time player in free agency, they need to get one more contract off the books. Their efforts have centered on moving Jahidi White who, ironically, they swapped Brevin Knight and his expiring contract for earlier this year when they still believed they'd be a playoff contender. With teams like the Raptors desperate for a big man, can Bryan Colangelo get something done? If he does, the Suns could be looking at $12-14 million in cap room this summer. Otherwise, $6.5 million is a more accurate assessment.




If they can't clear White I could live with a mid level veteran and a rookie or two addition to the team going into next year, depending on who the Bobcats take.
 

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Dallas is looking for size. This may be our chance to get rid of Marion's contract.

Marion, White, 2 1st-rounders (NY's and maybe Cav's) to Dallas;
Googs + cash + maybe a 2nd-rounder to Utah;
We get A. Walker and Clark back.

Dallas don't have any cap with or without Walker's contract. They might as well take on Marion's if they get two mid-ten 1st rounders plus an immediate help in paint to fight Shaq in the playoffs.
We'll have Amare, JJ, Cj, Zarko, Jake, Barbosa, Lampe, and Eisley still under contract in the summer, but about 26mil cap room for FAs and our lottery pick.:thumbup:
 

KingLouieLouie

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Originally posted by SirChaz
Well my bad, I thought the CBA had gone bankrupt.


The head coach of a developmental team would have to be employed by the league. Maybe an assistant from each team but that would create its own problems and conflicts.

Also I don't think veterans like Googs should be sent down. Probably just guys with less than 2 years NBA experience or players that are still under an certain age.

The reason why I would believe that the coaches would be independent from the NBA is that it would prevent any potential over-all influence or any kind of favoritism.....

The assistants from each team would serve as a liason that would ensure that the players from his team was receiving the proper instruction suited for them....Plus, there would be some stipulations that whoever the head-coach is would have to distribute the minutes evenly between each player on the squad....

I was merely giving Googs as an example since only Lampe and Harvey appear to be the only players who arent getting an adequate amount of playing time at this juncture, and that Googs should not occupy any spot on the actual roster...Let's just say I'm desperate like everyone else is to rid of him! :p
 

Chaz

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Yea I think the only way the coaching and handling of players is not an issue is if each team had its own developmental team.

The NBA should just expand the contract levels of employment and the number of players each team can have at various levels and let the teams do the rest. Or let teams own abl, cba, or other league's teams.
 

George O'Brien

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Originally posted by cly2tw
Dallas is looking for size. This may be our chance to get rid of Marion's contract.

Marion, White, 2 1st-rounders (NY's and maybe Cav's) to Dallas;
Googs + cash + maybe a 2nd-rounder to Utah;
We get A. Walker and Clark back.

Dallas don't have any cap with or without Walker's contract. They might as well take on Marion's if they get two mid-ten 1st rounders plus an immediate help in paint to fight Shaq in the playoffs.
We'll have Amare, JJ, Cj, Zarko, Jake, Barbosa, Lampe, and Eisley still under contract in the summer, but about 26mil cap room for FAs and our lottery pick.:thumbup:

Why does Utah do this?
 

Joe Mama

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Originally posted by George O'Brien
Why does Utah do this?

For the second-round draft pick silly! :)

I have a feeling Utah is going to require a lot more than that second-round draft pick to help facilitate a trade that helps two other teams in their conference.

Joe Mama
 
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sunsfn

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Originally posted by cly2tw
--------------------------------------------------------
Dallas is looking for size. This may be our chance to get rid of Marion's contract.

Marion, White, 2 1st-rounders (NY's and maybe Cav's) to Dallas;

We get A. Walker
-----------------------------------------------------

Do you really believe the suns would do this??
Do you really believe any team that had Shawn Marion would do this?

UNBELIEVABLE..........

--------------
cly2tw,
You certainly have a right to talk about any trades you would like to happen, but get real.!


:trout: :hammer: :bang:
 

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