Finally, the truth revealed about last years draft!

[Red Fury]

Mike Jurecki reported on KDUS this morning that after talking to a couple of unnamed former coaches on Mac's staff he was told that the Cardinal coaches wanted to draft Suggs last year but either Graves or Bidwill were afraid that they would not be able to sign him quickly and did not want to deal with the negative pub about the "local star holding out."

They traded down to get two guys that they knew they would be able to sign. Is this any way to run a franchise?

This is why the Cards don't want to take a QB with a very high first round pick, it will cost them to much money.

New Coach, but the same old Cards, and the same old owner. So much money for free agency with so little spent. They lett Rudd and the LB go because they were too cheap and unwilling to shell out a few bucks to shore up a woefully weak and thin LB group.

 

[CardinalChris]

Mike Jurecki reported on KDUS this morning that after talking to a couple of unnamed former coaches on Mac's staff he was told that the Cardinal coaches wanted to draft Suggs last year but either Graves or Bidwill were afraid that they would not be able to sign him quickly and did not want to deal with the negative pub about the "local star holding out."

They traded down to get two guys that they knew they would be able to sign. Is this any way to run a franchise?

This is why the Cards don't want to take a QB with a very high first round pick, it will cost them to much money.

New Coach, but the same old Cards, and the same old owner. So much money for free agency with so little spent. They lett Rudd and the LB go because they were too cheap and unwilling to shell out a few bucks to shore up a woefully weak and thin LB group.

Why would they think they couldn't sign him? Were the Potson's representing him? PLayer's signability is an important aspect of drafting a player. If you r team has a bad relationship with an agent is important.

 

[Red Fury]

You don't trade down to save money. They could have still drafted another impact player with their pick, like Leftwich. To trade down to save money and pick two guys that weren't even projected to go in the first round is borderline fraudulant.

 

[Lex]

I'm not buying what Jurecki is selling here. Suggs WANTED to be here.

I also think it's easy, in hindsight, for staff no longer here to claim it was just Mr. tightwad Bidwill's fault we didn't notice the defensive rookie of the year right under our noses.

 

[AZCB34]

You don't trade down to save money. They could have still drafted another impact player with their pick, like Leftwich. To trade down to save money and pick two guys that weren't even projected to go in the first round is borderline fraudulant.

They really didn't save much money by trading down. I still think they felt Suggs was too much of a "risk" to justify drafting him that high (there were some red flags about Suggs). I am not surprised the coaches wanted Suggs though.

If the Cards did trade down to save money, then logic says they would do the same this year. Could get interesting in the old draft war room.

 

[vikesfan]

Mike Jurecki reported on KDUS this morning that after talking to a couple of unnamed former coaches on Mac's staff he was told that the Cardinal coaches wanted to draft Suggs last year but either Graves or Bidwill were afraid that they would not be able to sign him quickly and did not want to deal with the negative pub about the "local star holding out."

They traded down to get two guys that they knew they would be able to sign. Is this any way to run a franchise?

This is why the Cards don't want to take a QB with a very high first round pick, it will cost them to much money.

New Coach, but the same old Cards, and the same old owner. So much money for free agency with so little spent. They lett Rudd and the LB go because they were too cheap and unwilling to shell out a few bucks to shore up a woefully weak and thin LB group.

Hey if you don't think the Cards have changed pick a nnew teams then. The Cards have paid millions for a top of the line the coach. That is a change Mac was one of the lowest paid coaches in the NFL. They brought in a guy who demandes personnel control.

You are crying cause we didn't sign Rudd. Come on get real the same old Cards would have overpaid for Rudd like they did with a bunch of FAs last year. Remember that?

These are the new Cards. DG has made it clear BPA will rule this draft. DG would not be here if they are going to be cheap. Sure they cannot compete with Snyders etc who have income outside of football - that doesn't mean you don't sign quality FAs. Both Macklin and Berry are young quality guys.

If they don't draft a QB #1 it is NOT because of money. It is because THEY WANT TO START WINNING THIS YEAR. DG is a very very very smart man. He knows what a good pick will be to start winning.

Get real dude. A new house is being built if you don't like it move to another neighborhood.

And you can discount any quotes unless they come from a named source and from their mouth. Like I said if the Crds don't take a QB or don't sign a FA it has nothing to do with last year.

Rudd was a back up plan and they didn't overspend for that . That is smart management!

 

[JeffGollin]

Anyone else hear this on KDUS?

 

[AZCB34]

Anyone else hear this on KDUS?

Yes, I did.

 

[vikesfan]

oh yes some dude here did a breakdown and there was virtually no savings in taking those two players over suggs

 

[JeffGollin]

Anyone else hear this on KDUS?
Yes, I did.
Thank you. (The reason I asked is because I didn't want to rant unless the feedback that Jurecki reported it was definitely true).

Whether what was said is true or whether the "unnamed" (don't you love that? What are they afraid of?) members of Mac's staff are just blowing smoke - the important thing is that this kind of convoluted and somewhat Byzantine personnel policy bs should no longer exist on the Cardinals.

Drafting decisions should be made on the basis of selecting the player who can best help us and not for reasons of: budget, PR, "non-signing embarrassment" or any other bogus reasons. This should be team policy. And it should be set in stone.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not buying what Jurecki is selling here. Suggs WANTED to be here.

I also think it's easy, in hindsight, for staff no longer here to claim it was just Mr. tightwad Bidwill's fault we didn't notice the defensive rookie of the year right under our noses.

First pass it sounds completely illogical.

1a. WR Bryant Johnson, Penn State (No. 17 overall): Signing bonus: $1,850,000. Base salaries: $595,000 (2003); $743,750 (2004, plus $1,755,000 option bonus); $892,500 (2005); $1,041,250 (2006); $751,250 (2007, plus escalators). Note: If team exercises option bonus, base salaries reduced to $305,000 (2004); $543,750 (2005); $620,500. There is also a one-time guaranteed incentive bonus, based on playing time, of $1,700,000. Total: five years, $6,420,500. Cap charge: $965,000.



1b. DE Calvin Pace, Wake Forest (No. 18 overall): Signing bonus: $3,000,000. Base salaries: $675,000 (2003); $843,800 (2004, plus $2,100,000 option bonus); $1,012,500 (2005); $1,181,300 (2006); $811,250 (2007). Note: If teams exercises option bonus, base salaries reduced to $305,000 (2004); $473,750 (2005); $642,500 (2006). Total: five years, $8,007,500. Cap charge: $1,275,000.

. DT Jonathan Sullivan, Georgia (No. 6 overall): Signing bonus: $7,400,000. Base salaries: $849,000 (2003); $1,061,300 (2004, plus $4,000,000 option bonus); $1,273,500 (2005); $1,485,750 (2006); $1,698,000 (2007, includes escalators); $1,243,580 (2008, voidable); $1,455,830 (2009, voidable). Notes: If teams exercises option bonus, base salaries reduced to $305,000 (2004); $380,000 (2005); $542,000 (2006); $736,500 (2007); $931,000 (2008). Total: seven years, $16,599,330 or, if voided, five years, $14,212,500. Cap charge: $1,906,140.

So the guy picked at 6 gets just over 14 for 5 years, our 2 picks got about 200K MORE for 5 years combined. His signing bonus is 7.4, ours combined for 4.85 but both get 2 tiered bonuses.

So Sullivan did get more upfront in cash and his 2nd bonus is bigger, but overall the deals are really not that far apart and Sullivan's caphit was actually less.

The saints basically gave Sullivan 8.2 million, we gave our 2 about 6.1 million, just don't think the cash difference is big enough to justify what Jurecki is saying.

 

[seesred]

I heard it. I don't believe it's anything but smoke. Unnamed ex coaches said to MJ "come over here thas is why we didn't sign or go after so in so?" Give me a break. I quality coach as I believe Mac was to some degree would not have just stood by last year in the war room and have anybody say to him don't pick that player we can't afford or sign him, we will trade down and take two guys that cost about the same to save money?

These are not youir Fathers Cardinals anymore. Move on...
GBR

 

[seesred]

I heard it. I don't believe it's anything but smoke. Unnamed ex coaches said to MJ "come over here thas is why we didn't sign or go after so in so?" Give me a break. I quality coach as I believe Mac was to some degree would not have just stood by last year in the war room and have anybody say to him don't pick that player we can't afford or sign him, we will trade down and take two guys that cost about the same to save money?

These are not youir Fathers Cardinals anymore. Move on...
GBR

 

[WizardOfAz]

Thanks Russ.

I thought that might be the case.

 

[Russ Smith]

oh yes some dude here did a breakdown and there was virtually no savings in taking those two players over suggs

The key is to compare BJ and Pace's deals to Johnathan Sullivan, not Suggs, because Sullivan went 6th and Suggs went 10th, had we taken Suggs, HE would have gone 6th.

I posted the numbers in this thread, not a huge difference, less cash bonus, more salary by moving down.

My suspicion is we were just wrong about Suggs, I don't really think we "cheaped out."

Certainly would have been easier to negotiate one first round deal than two, even though Suggs DID sign late with Baltimore. And as Lex said, Suggs said repeatedly he WANTED to play here, so it's strange to assume he'd have been a tougher sign than what we ended up with.

 

[40yearfan]

Mike Jurecki reported on KDUS this morning that after talking to a couple of unnamed former coaches on Mac's staff he was told that the Cardinal coaches wanted to draft Suggs last year but either Graves or Bidwill were afraid that they would not be able to sign him quickly and did not want to deal with the negative pub about the "local star holding out."

They traded down to get two guys that they knew they would be able to sign. Is this any way to run a franchise?

This is why the Cards don't want to take a QB with a very high first round pick, it will cost them to much money.

New Coach, but the same old Cards, and the same old owner. So much money for free agency with so little spent. They lett Rudd and the LB go because they were too cheap and unwilling to shell out a few bucks to shore up a woefully weak and thin LB group.

 

[Lex]

Russ-

We paid the 18th pick a million and a half more than the 17th pick?

Those numbers for Johnson and Pace make me want to toss my cookies.

This coming year is huge for those two guys.

 

[Sandan]

I'm not buying what Jurecki is selling here. Suggs WANTED to be here.

I also think it's easy, in hindsight, for staff no longer here to claim it was just Mr. tightwad Bidwill's fault we didn't notice the defensive rookie of the year right under our noses.

Funny that, this was the first thing that came to my mind as well

 

[SECTION 11]

The total difference in bonus packages was 900K between Sullivan and Pace/Johnson. Anyone who thinks that they traded down to save 900K is high.

 

[JeffGollin]

This is as good a thread as any to provide the following about last year's draft, and it helps illustrate how boards may differ from one another - and, for that matter, from what actually takes place.

I ran across last year's TSN War Room Draft Guide. Here's where they rated the Cardinal picks on their board prior to the draft.

Anquan Boldin - First Round (#31)
Gerald Hayes - Second Round (#39)
Bryant Johnson - Second Round (#40)
Calvin Pace - Third Round (#99)
Ken King - Fourth Round (#103)
Ray Gilbert - Fourth Round (#156)

If you accept the War Rooms board as gospel (which, in my opinion, you really can't) it would tell you that -

- The Cardinals reached big time for Pace
- They reached a little bit for Bryant Johnson
- But after that, they got amazingly good value - i.e.

Boldin (a late 1st round projection) early in round 2.

Hayes (a second round projection) in round 3

King (a fourth round projection) in Round 5.

Wells (not listed by TSN - small college) in round 6.

Gilbert (a fourth round projection) in round 6.

 

[Tangodnzr]

The key is to compare BJ and Pace's deals to Johnathan Sullivan, not Suggs, because Sullivan went 6th and Suggs went 10th, had we taken Suggs, HE would have gone 6th.

I posted the numbers in this thread, not a huge difference, less cash bonus, more salary by moving down.

My suspicion is we were just wrong about Suggs, I don't really think we "cheaped out."

Certainly would have been easier to negotiate one first round deal than two, even though Suggs DID sign late with Baltimore. And as Lex said, Suggs said repeatedly he WANTED to play here, so it's strange to assume he'd have been a tougher sign than what we ended up with.

Russ, you express my sentiments "to the tee". I think the most accurate assessment of the situation last year is what myself and several others, (I think you were one of them) said then, ...as now...: "The Cards evidently didn't feel Suggs was worth spending #6 money on."

That's not saying they were being cheap.

Those who consistanly already have their mind set to the Bidwillian = cheap = stupid Cards, pounce on that and whirl off on their spin.

What further amazes me is that Jurecki sometimes goes off on these little tangents. I know Jim O. is a big supporter of his, as are a lot of people, and no one seems to deny that he is one of the more hard working and generally conscientious and reliable reporters. But, like I say, every once in awhile he seems to go bizarro...is it just "stirring pot" to generate 'any' kind of response?
Is he putting his own spin on something said to him? I've never heard him accused of deliberately misquoting people. But as seesred said:

I heard it. I don't believe it's anything but smoke. Unnamed ex coaches said to MJ "come over here thas is why we didn't sign or go after so in so?" Give me a break. I quality coach as I believe Mac was to some degree would not have just stood by last year in the war room and have anybody say to him don't pick that player we can't afford or sign him, we will trade down and take two guys that cost about the same to save money?

This is the epitome of cheap journalism.
Is Jurecki so niave that he would believe something said like that by an ex-coach? I find that hard to believe.

And for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would be upset because the Cards didn't sign Rudd. I found it a little of a head scratcher that he was even considered in the first place....for a number of reasons.

I guess the wilder and more anti-Cards something is, the more it guarantees some people will be more than eager to jump on the wagon.

Amazing, simply amazing.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

New Coach, but the same old Cards, and the same old owner. So much money for free agency with so little spent. They lett Rudd and the LB go because they were too cheap and unwilling to shell out a few bucks to shore up a woefully weak and thin LB group.

While all of this really got me extremely mad this morning when I heard it on the radio this morning. I dont see how you can make this comment? Has the draft happened yet? They did EXACTLY what they said they were going to do in FA so far.

Now last year that is a different story. We go into the reg. season with 10mil under the cap and backed off an elite player such as Suggs, who remember WANTED to play here, because we didnt want to spend money! That F'n pisses me right off!

 

[DieHardCardFan]

New Coach, but the same old Cards, and the same old owner. So much money for free agency with so little spent. They lett Rudd and the LB go because they were too cheap and unwilling to shell out a few bucks to shore up a woefully weak and thin LB group.

While all of this really got me extremely mad this morning when I heard it on the radio this morning. I dont see how you can make this comment? Has the draft happened yet? They did EXACTLY what they said they were going to do in FA so far.

Now last year that is a different story. We go into the reg. season with 10mil under the cap and backed off an elite player such as Suggs, who remember WANTED to play here, because we didnt want to spend money! That F'n pisses me right off!

 

[AZCB34]

I haven't done it yet in this thread but now is as good a time as any. I heard what Jurecki said and here is my take on how it was said:

When Jurecki said it, it seemed he was commenting on the fact that the last coaching staff really wanted Suggs. I have no problem believing that and it actually makes sense. I don't think it was a case of an ex-coach grinding an axe or anything, just stating the coaches really wanted Suggs.

Jurecki then said that Graves AND Michael Bidwill decided to trade down to avoid another contract holdout with a local player. Again, I have stated in this very thread, the Cards simply didn't believe that Suggs was worth #6 money and when they coupled that with the red flags that had popped up (nothing major but enough) then they justified it in their mind to avoid him. In fact, I think they decided when it came their turn, NO player was worth #6 money. Again, no biggie. They made their choice and time will tell if it was the wrong one (looks like it was so far).

Now here is where things get...I don't know...strange. The saving money comment was thrown in there, IMO, awkwardly. When I heard it, I didn't for a second believe that an ex-coach would even comment on that. So the question is, did Jurecki simply give his opinion of the money thing or was he told the Cards tried to save money by Graves or Bidwill?

Quite frankly, I disregarded the saving money part of the argument when he stated it but I happen to believe the coaches wanted Suggs and Graves/Bidwill wanted something different.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

Sorry guys I posted before I read anyone elses threads! It does actually sound like some BS after taking a step back!