Forbes: NFL's Most Overpaid and Underpaid Players

[MadCardDisease]

Most Overpaid:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/08/14/the-nfls-most-overpaid-players/

#7: Larry Fitzgerald

To find the NFL’s most overpaid players, we relied on Approximate Value (AV), a statistic that Pro-Football-Reference.com has been developing since 2008. The statistic is an attempt to quantify each player’s on-field contributions to his team’s success, and it ultimately provides a means of comparing players across positions. The full methodology for how AV is calculated can be found here.

We adjusted each player’s approximate value, an aggregate figure, over the last three seasons to a per-game number, so that players weren’t penalized for games they didn’t play in. We then grossed that per-game value up to a full 16-game season. For context, the average 16-game AV of players making $2 million or more per season was 7.5 over the last three years. We then compared that performance figure to each player’s current average salary, via Spotrac.com, to find which NFL players have most underperformed their contracts.

...

Given the team nature of football, an appearance on our list isn’t necessarily the player’s fault. Take Larry Fitzgerald, for instance, who ranks seventh among the NFL’s most overpaid players. Fitzgerald is signed to an eight-year, $126 million contract that makes him the league’s tenth-highest paid player in terms of average salary, yet he’s averaged an AV of just 7.3 over the last three seasons. To put that into focus, Calvin Johnson, the league’s top-paid wideout, has averaged an AV of 13.3 in that time. Of the next four highest-paid receivers after Fitzgerald – Mike Wallace, Dwayne Bowe, Percy Harvin and Vincent Jackson – none averaged below an 8.5.

But none of those guys had to deal with the quarterback situation in Arizona. Over the last three seasons the Cards have started five different quarterbacks, and last year alone they trotted out the likes of John Skelton, Ryan Lindley and Brian Hoyer for a combined 11 starts. Those three completed a woeful 54% of their passes and threw three touchdowns to 18 interceptions, making it hard to blame Fitzgerald for his lack of production.

Most Underpaid:

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45eejkm/the-nfls-most-underpaid-players-2013/#gallerycontent

#7 Karlos Dansby

#9 John Abraham

 

[Shane]

I agree with that..

Not Dansby and Abraham though.

 

[Goldfield]

I agree also.

 

[D-Dogg]

i do not agree

:contrarian:

 

[BigRedRage]

I digress.

 

[Darkside]

Disagree with all of it. Highly paid players bring more to the game, more to the community, and more to the organization than just #'s. We all know why Larry's #'s have dipped recently, but even putting that aside, he brings more to the franchise and community than just 90 catches, 1000 yards, and 10+ TD's. How much of those millions did he give away? Not just to our great state but what about the people he helps in other places like Africa? Who has he inspired, who's life has he changed? You can't count that or measure it in the ways they do nowdays with analytics and the rest of it.

No, the #'s are just for us fools, the football junkies. That money goes way beyond football. There's people who don't even give a rip about the Cardinals but know who Larry is and what he does and what he stands for. Character matters.

 

[kerouac9]

Disagree with all of it. Highly paid players bring more to the game, more to the community, and more to the organization than just #'s. We all know why Larry's #'s have dipped recently, but even putting that aside, he brings more to the franchise and community than just 90 catches, 1000 yards, and 10+ TD's. How much of those millions did he give away? Not just to our great state but what about the people he helps in other places like Africa? Who has he inspired, who's life has he changed? You can't count that or measure it in the ways they do nowdays with analytics and the rest of it.

No, the #'s are just for us fools, the football junkies. That money goes way beyond football. There's people who don't even give a rip about the Cardinals but know who Larry is and what he does and what he stands for. Character matters.

Sam Acho does those things for the league minimum.

Larry's contract is an albatross, there's no two ways about it. Until we get a high-performing rookie QB, it's going to continue to be. It's insanity to pay a wide receiver--any wide receiver--that much money over that long of a period of time. But that's what we had to do.

I truly wonder what Larry would've been able to get on the open market. Probably not that deal, in fact, probably substantially less--maybe $9M per season.

 

[gmabel830]

Sam Acho does those things for the league minimum.

Larry's contract is an albatross, there's no two ways about it. Until we get a high-performing rookie QB, it's going to continue to be. It's insanity to pay a wide receiver--any wide receiver--that much money over that long of a period of time. But that's what we had to do.

I truly wonder what Larry would've been able to get on the open market. Probably not that deal, in fact, probably substantially less--maybe $9M per season.

I, for one, am glad we never got to find out. I think Minnesota would have offered him every penny that we did.

 

[Shane]

Disagree with all of it. Highly paid players bring more to the game, more to the community, and more to the organization than just #'s. We all know why Larry's #'s have dipped recently, but even putting that aside, he brings more to the franchise and community than just 90 catches, 1000 yards, and 10+ TD's. How much of those millions did he give away? Not just to our great state but what about the people he helps in other places like Africa? Who has he inspired, who's life has he changed? You can't count that or measure it in the ways they do nowdays with analytics and the rest of it.

No, the #'s are just for us fools, the football junkies. That money goes way beyond football. There's people who don't even give a rip about the Cardinals but know who Larry is and what he does and what he stands for. Character matters.

All of those are nice but don't justify his salary. He's paid to produce on the field and being wins. The article is spot on. K9 great post!

 

[kerouac9]

I, for one, am glad we never got to find out. I think Minnesota would have offered him every penny that we did.

So am I. I'm glad Larry's here, but Larry got the money he did not because it's relevant to his value, but because he's a valuable player (more so than Levi Brown and Antrel Rolle, who were released for financial reasons) who absolutely had a contract number that was unsustainable.

Larry's three contracts are like a subprime ARM loan. They each had massive balloon payments in the last year or two, and the Cards just re-financed each time.

No team would/could afford the kind of contract that Larry got. Minnesota was paying Adrian Peterson and a couple of high-money defensive players two years ago. They couldn't have afforded him either.

Yes, "teams always find ways to fit players under the cap", but you have to be specially positioned to drop a $15M cap hold for a non-quarterback.

The Cards are just in an unfortunate position to have the best player in the history of their franchise be at such a dependent position.

 

[Darkside]

Sam Acho does those things for the league minimum.

Larry's contract is an albatross, there's no two ways about it. Until we get a high-performing rookie QB, it's going to continue to be. It's insanity to pay a wide receiver--any wide receiver--that much money over that long of a period of time. But that's what we had to do.

I truly wonder what Larry would've been able to get on the open market. Probably not that deal, in fact, probably substantially less--maybe $9M per season.

Acho is a different kind of cat man. My wife works for Thunderbird School of Global Management and has met him several times for his post-graduate classes. Can't really compare the two though, they're totally different, and Sam hasn't had nearly the impact Fitz has had since coming here. And I mean that off the field.

What would you have done with Fitz's money? Who would you replace him with, for one, and what would you have done with the remainder? What better way would you have spent that money? I'm not being contentious either, I'm just saying for the money, if anyone deserves it, Fitz does, WR or not.

Is he overpaid? Sure, maybe, but many of these athletes are. I've no problem with giving Fitz max dollars. A HOF player is a HOF player dude, and just because he hasn't put up the #'s the last few years with crappy QB's doesn't mean he can't lead this team to a SB again. Fitz was one of the primary reasons we even went to the SB when he turned into beast mode and took over the playoffs. You don't just let that walk out of your stadium.

 

[kerouac9]

Acho is a different kind of cat man. My wife works for Thunderbird School of Global Management and has met him several times for his post-graduate classes. Can't really compare the two though, they're totally different, and Sam hasn't had nearly the impact Fitz has had since coming here. And I mean that off the field.

What would you have done with Fitz's money? Who would you replace him with, for one, and what would you have done with the remainder? What better way would you have spent that money? I'm not being contentious either, I'm just saying for the money, if anyone deserves it, Fitz does, WR or not.

Is he overpaid? Sure, maybe, but many of these athletes are. I've no problem with giving Fitz max dollars. A HOF player is a HOF player dude, and just because he hasn't put up the #'s the last few years with crappy QB's doesn't mean he can't lead this team to a SB again. Fitz was one of the primary reasons we even went to the SB when he turned into beast mode and took over the playoffs. You don't just let that walk out of your stadium.

Off the field where?

http://www.larryfitzgerald.com/helpingpeople/givingback/

Maybe you live in a cave, but every franchise player in every city does this stuff. The international stuff Q did before Fitz was here. Matt Leinart had a foundation because it's a tax haven when you funnel money there. It's also a great outlet for you to hire friends and family and get them on a payroll.

Here's a special secret: Larry Fitzgerald is not a hall of fame player right now.

9th among active players in receptions.
6th among active players in TDs.
One first-team all pro.
59th in career TDs.
32nd in career receptions.
33rd in career receiving yards.

Andre Johnson has more career receiving yards than Fitz does. This is an era when receptions and receiving yards come in bunches, and Fitz doesn't stand out among his peers, much less among the historical numbers (which will continue to change as he's playing and after he retires.

EDIT:

It's not so much what I'd do with Fitz's money. His money has been absolutely life-altering. But after expenses, travel, family on the payroll, and taxes, there isn't a ton left over to last him the remainder of his days in the style he's become accustomed to.

It's about what I'd do with Fitz's time. He has immense amounts of free time, and he does put that to good use in being a great ambassador for the league and the Arizona Cardinals.

 

[Darkside]

Off the field where?

http://www.larryfitzgerald.com/helpingpeople/givingback/

Maybe you live in a cave, but every franchise player in every city does this stuff. The international stuff Q did before Fitz was here. Matt Leinart had a foundation because it's a tax haven when you funnel money there. It's also a great outlet for you to hire friends and family and get them on a payroll.

Here's a special secret: Larry Fitzgerald is not a hall of fame player right now.

9th among active players in receptions.
6th among active players in TDs.
One first-team all pro.
59th in career TDs.
32nd in career receptions.
33rd in career receiving yards.

Andre Johnson has more career receiving yards than Fitz does. This is an era when receptions and receiving yards come in bunches, and Fitz doesn't stand out among his peers, much less among the historical numbers (which will continue to change as he's playing and after he retires.

Good, for a minute there I thought you may bust out a spreadsheet.

Your point about Q is spot on, as Larry even says Q got him into it when they were in Africa and he tossed out a piece of chewed bubble-gum and saw a bunch of kids fighting over it in the bushes. Love Q, have no issue with that, except that you act like Q was some poor farmer without a penny who hitched a ride to take Fitz on this great trip. That trip was paid for with currency. Currency he made from the Cardinals. You get paid and you can give back--and not only that but move it forward by getting another millionaire involved. That's how it works and what I meant about metrics and analytics not being able to track it.

I don't know why you bring up Leinart's tax haven, as if that's somehow applicable to Fitz. I won't even spend any more time on this except to say Matty and Fitz aren't comparable in any way.

Your stats aren't a secret, just FYI, they're everywhere. He also set records in the playoffs, breaking Jerry Rice's records, when he had a QB. Don't cherry-pick your stats. I've been one of the first to say Fitz isn't a lock for the hall, but given what he's done over his career with sub-average QB's and with a good one, I think it's a safe bet. For sure? No. Safest bet we have on this current team? Yes. I'll say it again, you don't just let players like him or HOF players leave the building.

And just FYI, you really need to stop with the snobbery and writing things like "live in a cave" anytime someone disagrees with you or questions you. It's infantile and ignorant. It's one of the reasons I and many others don't even respond to your posts, because you're such an ass when people disagree, ask a question, or want to discuss. You're better than that. You don't show it, but I still hold out hope.

 

[kerouac9]

Good, for a minute there I thought you may bust out a spreadsheet, thus ending our "friendship".

Your point about Q is spot on, as Larry even says Q got him into it when they were in Africa and he tossed out a piece of chewed bubble-gum and saw a bunch of kids fighting over it in the bushes. Love Q, have no issue with that, except that you act like Q was some poor farmer without a penny who hitched a ride to take Fitz on this great trip. That trip was paid for with currency. Currency he made from the Cardinals. You get paid and you can give back--and not only that but move it forward by getting another millionaire involved. That's how it works and what I meant about metrics and analytics not being able to track it.

I don't know why you bring up Leinart's tax haven, as if that's somehow applicable to Fitz. I won't even spend any more time on this except to say Matty and Fitz aren't comparable in any way.

Your stats aren't a secret, just FYI, they're everywhere. He also set records in the playoffs, breaking Jerry Rice's records, when he had a QB. Don't cherry-pick your stats. I've been one of the first to say Fitz isn't a lock for the hall, but given what he's done over his career with sub-average QB's and with a good one, I think it's a safe bet. For sure? No. Safest bet we have on this current team? Yes. I'll say it again, you don't just let players like him or HOF players leave the building.

And just FYI, you really need to stop with the snobbery and writing things like "live in a cave" anytime someone disagrees with you or questions you. It's infantile and ignorant. It's one of the reasons I and many others don't even respond to your posts, because you're such an ass when people disagree, ask a question, or want to discuss. You're better than that. You don't show it, but I still hold out hope.

Fine. Not Leinart. Patrick Peterson has a foundation. Carson Palmer has a foundation. Michael Vick has a foundation. All of these guys are encouraged to do charitable work from their teams and agents and handlers. My best friend "met" Mike Vick at a non-profit event in Philly where he dropped off a giant novelty check.

There's a lot of stuff about raising money of Fitz's expensive website paid for with Foundation dollars (Palmer's foundation doesn't seem to have a webite), but there's very little about deploying money. Interesting to me.

I don't begrudge Fitz a dollar of his contract, but it's pretty clear that it's bad for the ballclub. Even Darren Urban, the propaganda arm of the Arizona Cardinals front office, has mentioned that Fitz's contract is problematic in the future.

I'm not sure what your argument is here, so I'm having a problem really knowing what to say next. Fitz is a great guy. Does he do great things with his money and celebrity? I suppose he could do worse things. But he's not doing substantially more than a ton of other athletes that increases his value to the Arizona Cardinals in a meaningful way.

 

[Shane]

Good, for a minute there I thought you may bust out a spreadsheet, thus ending our "friendship".

Your point about Q is spot on, as Larry even says Q got him into it when they were in Africa and he tossed out a piece of chewed bubble-gum and saw a bunch of kids fighting over it in the bushes. Love Q, have no issue with that, except that you act like Q was some poor farmer without a penny who hitched a ride to take Fitz on this great trip. That trip was paid for with currency. Currency he made from the Cardinals. You get paid and you can give back--and not only that but move it forward by getting another millionaire involved. That's how it works and what I meant about metrics and analytics not being able to track it.

I don't know why you bring up Leinart's tax haven, as if that's somehow applicable to Fitz. I won't even spend any more time on this except to say Matty and Fitz aren't comparable in any way.

Your stats aren't a secret, just FYI, they're everywhere. He also set records in the playoffs, breaking Jerry Rice's records, when he had a QB. Don't cherry-pick your stats. I've been one of the first to say Fitz isn't a lock for the hall, but given what he's done over his career with sub-average QB's and with a good one, I think it's a safe bet. For sure? No. Safest bet we have on this current team? Yes. I'll say it again, you don't just let players like him or HOF players leave the building.

And just FYI, you really need to stop with the snobbery and writing things like "live in a cave" anytime someone disagrees with you or questions you. It's infantile and ignorant. It's one of the reasons I and many others don't even respond to your posts, because you're such an ass when people disagree, ask a question, or want to discuss. You're better than that. You don't show it, but I still hold out hope.

Everything you are debating is quite simply irrelevant... K9 is spot on and that's hard for me to say

 

[Darkside]

Fine. Not Leinart. Patrick Peterson has a foundation. Carson Palmer has a foundation. Michael Vick has a foundation. All of these guys are encouraged to do charitable work from their teams and agents and handlers. My best friend "met" Mike Vick at a non-profit event in Philly where he dropped off a giant novelty check.

There's a lot of stuff about raising money of Fitz's expensive website paid for with Foundation dollars (Palmer's foundation doesn't seem to have a webite), but there's very little about deploying money. Interesting to me.

I don't begrudge Fitz a dollar of his contract, but it's pretty clear that it's bad for the ballclub. Even Darren Urban, the propaganda arm of the Arizona Cardinals front office, has mentioned that Fitz's contract is problematic in the future.

I'm not sure what your argument is here, so I'm having a problem really knowing what to say next. Fitz is a great guy. Does he do great things with his money and celebrity? I suppose he could do worse things. But he's not doing substantially more than a ton of other athletes that increases his value to the Arizona Cardinals in a meaningful way.

You're acting like I responded to you initially: you responded to my post, so if you don't know what my argument is, perhaps you should look at your own rebuttals. See up there <points>. I've got no issue with anything you said other than I don't think Larry should be allowed to walk and I think the money he makes pays for more than just #'s. I really don't believe anything I posted is that contentious.

 

[Darkside]

Everything you are debating is quite simply irrelevant... K9 is spot on and that's hard for me to say

Noted X 2. Faceplant in K9s ass. Got it.

 

[kerouac9]

Fine. Back to your original post:

Disagree with all of it. Highly paid players bring more to the game, more to the community, and more to the organization than just #'s. We all know why Larry's #'s have dipped recently, but even putting that aside, he brings more to the franchise and community than just 90 catches, 1000 yards, and 10+ TD's. How much of those millions did he give away? Not just to our great state but what about the people he helps in other places like Africa?

I don't know. How much?

Who has he inspired, who's life has he changed? You can't count that or measure it in the ways they do nowdays with analytics and the rest of it.

No, the #'s are just for us fools, the football junkies. That money goes way beyond football. There's people who don't even give a rip about the Cardinals but know who Larry is and what he does and what he stands for. Character matters.

Whose lives has he changed? Wouldn't that money have been better spent going directly to those charities or whatever? If not Larry Fitzgerald, it would be someone else.

The NFL is a bottom-line business, and lately Larry Fitzgerald's bottom line is that he's been the ONLY REASON to watch the Arizona Cardinals' offense the last three years. That's pretty good, but not 8 years, $120M good.

Not for 5-11 bottom lines.

 

[Darkside]

Fine. Back to your original post:

I don't know. How much?

Whose lives has he changed? Wouldn't that money have been better spent going directly to those charities or whatever? If not Larry Fitzgerald, it would be someone else.

The NFL is a bottom-line business, and lately Larry Fitzgerald's bottom line is that he's been the ONLY REASON to watch the Arizona Cardinals' offense the last three years. That's pretty good, but not 8 years, $120M good.

Not for 5-11 bottom lines.

K9, you really are killin' me man. It was a rhetorical question. I don't know how much he's given away or how many lives he changed, that's the point. You can't qualify it or measure it. So when they say he's overpaid, I say you don't know what he's done to help others or inspire others. That was the point of my post dude, that you can't measure it with statistics. Remember? It was only a few posts ago dude. Character matters?

 

[Darkside]

My god man, I take it back, I prefer the spreadsheet.

 

[THESMEL]

huge cards turnover

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/arizona-cardinals/salary/67066?q=arizona-cardinals

 

[gmabel830]

huge cards turnover

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/arizona-cardinals/salary/67066?q=arizona-cardinals

8 of the top 15 salaries from last year are no longer with the team. Sounds about right for a 5-11 team.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Duckjake]

Sam Acho does those things for the league minimum.

Larry's contract is an albatross, there's no two ways about it. Until we get a high-performing rookie QB, it's going to continue to be. It's insanity to pay a wide receiver--any wide receiver--that much money over that long of a period of time. But that's what we had to do.

I truly wonder what Larry would've been able to get on the open market. Probably not that deal, in fact, probably substantially less--maybe $9M per season.

That's nonsense. Fitz' contract is not an albatross at all. While paying Larry all that money the Cards were able to waste millions on Kevin Kolb and Stewart Bradley and Daryn Colledge and Adam Snyder and..................

Fitzgerald's contract is not a problem because we don't have a franchise QB to pay. Now that might change next year but we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Larry Fitzgerald is worth every penny.

I understand the idealistic view that Larry is paid to "produce and win games". Yes, that is true.

But, it is not the whole truth. This is a business. The NFL and the 32 NFL teams care about winning, but nothing is more important than making money.

Larry Fitzgerald makes an obscene amount of money for the NFL, and more specifically the Cardinals.

Worth every single penny on the field, and off the field.

Its a high salary but that is what happens when a 3rd overall pick hits all his escalators in his rookie contract, has all the leverage in the world, has not a complete squeaky clean background, but pretty darn clean, has media savvy, etc., etc. So, yes, its gonna cost 8 years, $120M to re-sign him, cause that is what it is going to cost.

Again, there is a reason he is making his money.

Its not Larry Fitzgerald's fault either. Rod Graves is the schmuck who agreed on the original contract and put the Cardinals in that situation in the 1st place. As for 5-11, it you want to hang 5-11 around Fitzgerald neck I think that is very much fair, because we probably don't win 5 games a year without him on the team. Fitzgerald doesn't pick the players for the roster, block at LT, rush the passer, run the football, or pass it.

Finally, Fitzgerald's contract is not preventing the Cardinals from signing other players. That is one point that is ridiculous. The Cardinals are not and have never been a team to be near the cap, and when they are, it is the Adam Snyder, Travis LaBoy, Kevin Kolb, or Bradley Stewart type contracts that were bigger problems than what we where paying Larry Fitzgerald. The Cardinals prevent the Cardinals from signing players.

Is Larry Fitzgerald paid a ridiculous salary ? Yep. But, the world is not ideal. What he costs is what he costs. You never going to have all your players at the "correct" market value. K9 put it best, its what the team had to do.

JMHO.

All really good points gentlemen, just throwing in my two cents.

 

[cardpa]

I agree with K9 in this case. I think K9 can rub people the wrong way however I think he makes a good point here.

For the salary Fitz is pulling down you can go out and get a above average LT, a very good WR to replace Fitz and a very good RB. Now to me that does more to improve this team than one outstanding WR like Fitz.

As a matter of fact you can grab one of these positions in the next draft and get top notch at the other two positions in free agency or trade. Now I can protect my QB, immensely improve my running game and still have an above average or top flight WR to throw to.

I would think that would do more to get this team into the win column more often than one great WR and you would still get a nice flow of money back into the community.