Franchise took a big step back today

[Chopper0080]

Every single great QB that has ever walked the earth panicked early in their career. Every single one of them! Your concern over K1 is misguided and blown way out of proportion.

I never indicated that it wasn't normal, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue. I stated that it is something he is going to have to correct, and if he doesn't, he is going to be a bust.

No where in my post did I indicate that he can't make that adjustment or did I share my thoughts on if I believe he will.

This is where Murray supporters can be frustrating...rookie issues might be normal for rookies, but they are still issues that negatively impact the team.

He panicked.

It hurt the team.

Now it is on tape and he has to correct it.

If he can, he will progress forward.

If he can't, he won't.

 

[PACardsFan]

I never indicated that it wasn't normal, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an issue. I stated that it is something he is going to have to correct, and if he doesn't, he is going to be a bust.

No where in my post did I indicate that he can't make that adjustment or did I share my thoughts on if I believe he will.

This is where Murray supporters can be frustrating...rookie issues might be normal for rookies, but they are still issues that negatively impact the team.

He panicked.

It hurt the team.

Now it is on tape and he has to correct it.

If he can, he will progress forward.

If he can't, he won't.

He is NOT damaging our team. Our defense & OL’s inability to protect him when we have to be one dimensional is what is hurting us. Outside of 2 drives, K1 was very good against Carolina. I’m hardly going to be concerned about that. He’s only going to learn from the experience.

 

[gimpy]

Not sure I would call it panic. Maybe he had a spur of the moment reaction, correctly or incorrectly.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Exactly. I'm glad we're in agreement. He needs to learn how to NOT panic and trust the pocket. Which he has ample time to do.

Not in the 4th quarter he didn't. The pocket just wasn't the same as it was in the first half.

 

[Chopper0080]

He is NOT damaging our team. Our defense & OL’s inability to protect him when we have to be one dimensional is what is hurting us. Outside of 2 drives, K1 was very good against Carolina. I’m hardly going to be concerned about that. He’s only going to learn from the experience.

This is incorrect. His final 5 drives of that game were terrible. His terrible play accounted for over a quarter of the game, and the one quarter that matters the most.

Also, Murray being graded as one of the worst QBs of the week is damaging to our team. No other way to spin it. No team says our QB was graded terribly but he positively impacted our team.

 

[Chopper0080]

Not in the 4th quarter he didn't. The pocket just wasn't the same as it was in the first half.

You mean to say the pocket wasn't the same once Murray threw a pick that led to the Panthers going up 15 and forcing the offense to pass? Sounds like a situation caused by the QB. Justin Pugh didn't throw the pick. Suggs didn't throw the pick. Kingsbury didn't throw the pick. Murray did.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You mean to say the pocket wasn't the same once Murray threw a pick that led to the Panthers going up 15 and forcing the offense to pass? Sounds like a situation caused by the QB. Justin Pugh didn't throw the pick. Suggs didn't throw the pick. Kingsbury didn't throw the pick. Murray did.

Give me a break. Put the whole game into context. What is the point of mentioning just one bad play, unless to prove your point about Murray or something?

Look at the situation before he threw the pick, was Murray at fault for all of those too?

 

[DVontel]

It’s interesting how polarizing Kyler is.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

This is incorrect. His final 5 drives of that game were terrible. His terrible play accounted for over a quarter of the game, and the one quarter that matters the most.

Also, Murray being graded as one of the worst QBs of the week is damaging to our team. No other way to spin it. No team says our QB was graded terribly but he positively impacted our team.

Of course it was. He was bad. Were you praising how good he did in the 4th quarter of game one, as you are hating on him now after game 3?

Have some perspective. He is a rookie, in his 3rd NFL game. Did you expect him to not have bad 4th quarters? What are your expectations of him? I honestly want to know.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It’s interesting how polarizing Kyler is.

Tell me about it.

 

[Chopper0080]

Of course it was. He was bad. Were you praising how good he did in the 4th quarter of game one, as you are hating on him now after game 3?

Have some perspective. He is a rookie, in his 3rd NFL game. Did you expect him to not have bad 4th quarters? What are your expectations of him? I honestly want to know.

First, what Murray did vs the Lions was garbage time stats. It is nowhere close to the same situation as the 4th Q of the Panthers game.

I worried about his size pre-draft and how it would affect his willingness to stand in the pocket and take a hit, or take a hit is was unable to get down when he scrambled. So far, he has not seemed willing/able to stare into the face of a blitz and deliver an accurate ball down the field.

I worried about his experience pre-draft. Had he played enough football to know what he was seeing and do the little things it takes to win in the NFL. So far, he has struggled with pocket awareness, knowing when to scramble, and overall game/situational awareness. He takes unnecessary losses running out of bounds instead of throwing the ball away, he runs into sacks, and has struggled in the red zone and on 3rd downs.

I worried about his lack of overcoming adversity. Over his career he has generally had the best personnel on the field. The few times he didn't, Texas A&M and vs Alabama, he struggled. That is what I feel he has done so far in the NFL. He has consistently had equal-to or less-than talent than the teams he has played so far and has zero wins. That is not overcoming adversity, this is being as good as your talent. It is Dak Prescott-esque.

I worry now that Murray is too tight. I think this is why he is a slow starter and why he struggles in pressure situations. It is easier to play freely when you are down and have nothing to lose vs when you are close and have to execute to win.

I felt that Murray was very accurate in college and feel that he has been very accurate in the NFL. Same with his arm strength.

In the end, Kyler is pretty close to what I expected him to be. A good NFL prospect who has a lot of ways to fail and be a bust. Size, experience, and mental toughness (not intelligence, he is smart). If he can overcome those, he should be fine. If he can't, he will be out of the league. That being said, Murray is far from the prospect that people on this board billed him to be.

 

[Chopper0080]

Give me a break. Put the whole game into context. What is the point of mentioning just one bad play, unless to prove your point about Murray or something?

Look at the situation before he threw the pick, was Murray at fault for all of those too?

In a shoot out, one bad play put him down 15. Earlier in the same drive he overthrew DJ which would have been a 3 or 4 yard gain.

Sounds like he is creating his own problems.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

First, what Murray did vs the Lions was garbage time stats. It is nowhere close to the same situation as the 4th Q of the Panthers game.

The were down 18. EIGHTEEN in the 4th quarter and it is just garbage stats.... but when they are down 8 in the 4th quarter and the defense allows them to score and it is 15, the sky is falling.

Even when I agree with you on points, (like the talent he has always had around him) things like above really stick out.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

In a shoot out, one bad play put him down 15. Earlier in the same drive he overthrew DJ which would have been a 3 or 4 yard gain.

Sounds like he is creating his own problems.

and yet multiple good plays against a good Lions team is just garbage time stats.....

 

[DVontel]

First, what Murray did vs the Lions was garbage time stats.

Yea, definitely something personal.

 

[Outerlimits]

It’s interesting how polarizing Kyler is.

the reality is that it will continue to be polarizing since his play so far hasn't proven either side correct yet. He has had moments of very good play, but also some dreadful times where the offense was giving flashbacks of last year.

So far I attribute new coach and rookie QB as the main reason for the moments of ugly offense. By later this season, we will certainly have more evidence to support which camp was correct about Murray.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The were down 18. EIGHTEEN in the 4th quarter and it is just garbage stats.... but when they are down 8 in the 4th quarter and the defense allows them to score and it is 15, the sky is falling.

Even when I agree with you on points, (like the talent he has always had around him) things like above really stick out.

agreed. the discounting of an amazing 4th quarter comeback, which included a huge game-tying drive and TD pass with less than a minute left and a two point conversion and then what could have been a game-winning drive in OT if the D didn't fold like an accordion is pretty weak.

 

[Stout]

Every single great QB that has ever walked the earth panicked early in their career. Every single one of them! Your concern over K1 is misguided and blown way out of proportion.

Right, they have. So you can now agree that his game isn't blemish-free at this time? Problem is that KM is polarizing, and some folks on here are posting as if KM's play isn't problematic. It's normal for a rookie, it's nothing to panic over, but yes, it is absolutely problematic. When a QB literally sacks himself out of panic, that is a problem.

Not in the 4th quarter he didn't. The pocket just wasn't the same as it was in the first half.

My apology, by "ample time" I meant ample time to develop the skill.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

First, what Murray did vs the Lions was garbage time stats. It is nowhere close to the same situation as the 4th Q of the Panthers game.

Seems you do not understand what "garbage time" entails. He led a comeback that tied the game in the 4th quarter. The Lions head coach even said they didn't change a single thing defensively in the 4th quarter and they didn't run any prevent defense. He should get full credit for what he did in that 4th/OT, but also needs to get his fair share of the blame to be in the position to need a comeback in the first place.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yea, definitely something personal.

Lol...what personal issue could i possibly have with Murray?. I said the same thing after the Lions game. The Lions were playing off and trying to eat time to end the game. Kyler had two awesome 2 pt conversions where Murray executed under a lot of pressure. The difference vs Carolina is the Panthers didn't let up.

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[Chopper0080]

Seems you do not understand what "garbage time" entails. He led a comeback that tied the game in the 4th quarter. The Lions head coach even said they didn't change a single thing defensively in the 4th quarter and they didn't run any prevent defense. He should get full credit for what he did in that 4th/OT, but also needs to get his fair share of the blame to be in the position to need a comeback in the first place.

Im pretty sure garbage time is when teams play soft coverage trying to keep the clock running, players inbounds, and not giving up big plays so they can hold onto a large lead.

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[dreamcastrocks]

My apology, by "ample time" I meant ample time to develop the skill.

Right, they have. So you can now agree that his game isn't blemish-free at this time? Problem is that KM is polarizing, and some folks on here are posting as if KM's play isn't problematic. It's normal for a rookie, it's nothing to panic over, but yes, it is absolutely problematic. When a QB literally sacks himself out of panic, that is a problem.

The issue isn't the panic itself to me, it is why the panic is there in the first place. You think he panics if he has a clean pocket? He got the yips after not trusting his offensive line. (again obviously just my opinion)

I'm just hoping that this issue overblown and we can talk about how we get beat by the Seahawks....

Oh wait, I'm sure it will all be about Murray again, just like all threads all these days. It like 2 degrees of Kyler Murray.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Lol...what personal issue could i possibly have with Murray?. I said the same thing after the Lions game. The Lions were playing off and trying to eat time to end the game. Kyler had two awesome 2 pt conversions where Murray executed under a lot of pressure. The difference vs Carolina is the Panthers didn't let up.

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So the Lions coach saying that they weren't playing prevent and letting them get walked over isn't enough to say that it wasn't garbage time?

 

[Stout]

The issue isn't the panic itself to me, it is why the panic is there in the first place. You think he panics if he has a clean pocket? He got the yips after not trusting his offensive line. (again obviously just my opinion.

I'm just hoping that this issue overblown and we can talk about how we get beat by the Seahawks....

Oh wait, I'm sure it will all be about Murray again, just like all threads all these days. It like 2 degrees of Kyler Murray.

That is a major issue--the OL. The bigger issue, no doubt about it. But who ever really has a clean pocket? It's living a pipe dream to think he'll have a clean pocket even half the time. He has to learn how to deal with it when he gets pressure off the edge, or up the middle--or both. Throw it away rather than run out of bounds for a 3-yard sack. Step up into the pocket when you get pressure off the edge. He's not THE problem right now, but having a very rough rookie QB is most certainly A problem.

 

[Chopper0080]

So the Lions coach saying that they weren't playing prevent and letting them get walked over isn't enough to say that it wasn't garbage time?

You mean the coach who screwed up didn't own that he screwed up? Crazy man.

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