Free Agent Centers rated in top 30 by CBS Sportsline

[Yuma]

More food for thought:

4. Brad Miller (13.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.6 apg, 49.3 fg%, 81.8 ft%)

5. Vlade Divac has player option (9.9 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 3.4 apg, 46.6 fg% 71.3 ft%)

9. Rasho Nesterovic (11.2 ppg 6.5 rpg 1.5 apg 52.5 fg% 64.2 ft%)

14. Michael Olowokandi (12.2 ppg 9.1 rpg 1.3 apg 42.7 fg% 65.7 ft%)

16. David Robinson retiring (8.5 ppg 7.9 rpg 1.0 apg 46.9 fg% 71.0 ft%)

28. Vladimir Stepania (5.6 ppg 7.0 rpg .3 apg 43.3 fg% 53.0 ft%)

30. Jelani McCoy (6.8 ppg 5.3 rpg .6 apg 49.1 fg% 54.8 ft%)

wildcard: Alonzo Mourning

Phoenix Suns Centers

Jake Tsakalidis (4.9 ppg 3.7rpg .4 apg 45.2 fg% 67.2 ft%)
career stats: (5.8 ppg 4.7rpg .4 apg 46.9 fg% 66.2 ft%)

Jake Voskuhl (3.8 ppg 3.5 rpg .6 apg 56.4 fg% 66.7 ft%)

Scott Williams (4.0 ppg 4.9 rpg .3 apg 41.1 fg% 78.6 ft%)

Bo Outlaw (4.7 ppg 4.6 rpg 1.4 apg 55.0 fg% 62.1 ft%)

Pretty depressing! I threw Big Jakes Career stats in there since he was hurt this year. Our guys are below the thirtieth rated Center in the NBA. Doesn't look like much help unless you can con one of these guys into the mid level with a promise of a better contract down the line, something Phoenix has managed to do before. The only thing we have going for us is we were a playoff team.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Even more food for thought:

SO what we have lower than the 13th center. We have a very highly rated PG and SF. A beast to be at PF. A young kid at SG that backs up a former all nba player........You cannot have top 10 players at EVERY position....there has to be a fall off somewhere, and for us it has always been center.

IMO a top 13 center will not win us championships. A decent bench will, our players need rest so they dont burn out in the playoffs and dont risk injury during the season. Someone has to be able to produce. You know why SA is a favorite now? Not because they dominate 1- 5 but because they have solid players, and a very solid bench that can be expected to put up 25-30 points a night.

 

[Yuma]

For the record, I said 30th, not 13th! Also, I guess I am old school and remember the Laker and Boston starters who usually comprised most of the all-star squads. Even further back in the sixties and seventies when some squads were stacked! Maybe now you can't have a top ten at each position, but I was just asking for a top 30 guy as a starter. Our guys could probably do that with some more hustle. Yeah the bench is critical, but I have watched the Suns for decades and have seen plenty of times where our bench outplays the other squads bench and we still lose! Come crunch time it's nice to have a starting five that other teams have to play straight up and don't have a patsy guy on the offensive end they don't have to guard. Believe me, I am a HUGE suns fan and am not knocking them just to knock them. Either we aren't able to get decent centers, or our big man coaches aren't developing them properly. The point I was making is their stats are so low it appears they aren't even working on their fundamentals, not hustling, or whatever. We need a good bench, but we also have a glaring hole at the center position.

Sorry, I have been watching the NBA for over 30 years now, and I consider the center play in the NBA not very good right now overall. There were a lot of teams that would have kicked a guy's behind if he only averaged 4 points and 4 rebounds a game! I guess us old guys get mad watching guys get paid millions that can't box out, or shoot free throws.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

My bad on the thirteenth, I read it wrong. But still, our centers are ranked so low because they do not play. We usually play 3 forwards, if Big Jake was given start minutes, he would be in the top 20.

Hate to tell you, but those memories of stacked teams are just that, memories. Thinking that such teams are possible now is crazy, because it is impossible to do for so many reasons.

This team hustles a lot, that is how they won most of their games........and the suns were almost never doubled off of after the half way mark in the season. Bo and Little Jake cut the hole and got layups every time their man left them. Our team has no one in the starting 5 you can just leave, because they will make you pay. you sure you watched the games??

You watching the suns for decades and seeing times when our bench plays better and still looses is irrelevant. With the current make up of our team, bench production is the #1 problem. We are talking current, not 15 years ago

Like I said, the C position does not exist on this team. We play 3 forwards 75% of the time, and we have one of the best big men coaches in the league BTW. (One of the reasons Amare did so well this year)

 

[Yuma]

I guess it's a chicken or egg thing. We play three forwards because we don't have decent centers. If we had two really good centers, which essentially is what San Antonio plays in Duncan and Robinson, we would play more two center lineups. our centers aren't in the top thirty because they have poor footwork and defensive skills and can't stay in very long minutes. It's hack by commitee by our centers. My coaches always told me that when you are reaching on defense you are not moving your feet. I watched a lot of Suns games, usually all of them. For every cut down the lane our guys do and actually make the layup, which you can see by their stats is not much per game, there are several plays on the other end where they are getting beat. I guess I am just looking for a center on this squad who can stay in front of their man defensivly and box out to rebound. I admire your excitement about the Suns. We have come close to winning a championship twice over thirty plus seasons, and usually we had good center play on those teams that did well. So if precendence means anything, we will need to fix the center hole we currently have in order to get back on the championship hunt. We have a perfectly good team if all you want is to win 40-50 games a year and exit the first round of the playoffs. I really would like to see us go all the way before another thirty years passes! This is a good debate!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

It is a good debate!

See, I dont think that Frank would play 2 centers unless they were very very proven (therfor unobtainable)

In actuallity, our centers have better defensive skills than the 3rd forward we throw out there (Bo). Bo constantly leaves his man on defense to chase the ball, which always leads to un contested layups. Where as the Jakes like to hang out near the hoop (Big) or around the top of the key (Lil).

If you look at what Big Jake did after his surgery, he deserved time on the court. Every game he was out there, he played well. FJ just felt he was to slow for the tempo we usually kept.

The layups that those guys would miss usually was because they were fouled. Now even though they werent great FT shooters, the opposing teams wouldnt leave them because they didnt want to waste fouls on Bo outlaw and Jake Voskuhl.

I really disagree that we need to fix the center hole to win a championship. I think that rings are won with a dominating inside presense and defense. The suns are capable of both. Obviously they need more time together, a better bench, but the foundation is more than set. All we really need at center is a person who rebound and defend. Obviously things like being able to shoot and be a shot blocking machine are nice, but we really dont need them if our bench is solid.

 

[elindholm]

Who are these three forwards I'm hearing about? At least as often, the Suns played two forwards and three guards.

 

[Yuma]

All we really need at center is a person who rebound and defend. Obviously things like being able to shoot and be a shot blocking machine are nice, but we really dont need them if our bench is solid.

I couldn't have said it better, we need to get one of these centers that can do this! That's what I have been saying!!! Also, a center who doesn't start, isn't he someone that comes off the bench? Why should improving our bench play be limited to only the 1-4 slots? Also, why can't improving our team defense be helped by improving the Center position? I have seen a lot of centers play average against other teams, but exploit our hole on defense (the center spot) and have some of their best games of the season against us. Improving our defense would surely help us win a championship, no? You have to admit you have seen some journeyman centers have some good to very good games against us last year. Some games we could have dominated teams, but their centers kept them in the games. I think we are on the right track. We just need better centers, or better center play. I know there was a team decision to let Clifford Robinson go, but he was our last really good big man defender. I wonder how good we would have been with this team, if he was on it. I daresay we would have beat San Antonio even with Marbury getting hurt.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The 3 forwards are Bo Amare and Shawn. But yes, the 3 guards also happened a lot.

The reason why I think the bench 1-4 is more important is because we already have a good person to be a backup C in Little Jake IMO. Big Jake can defend and rebound. The center everyone wants is on our team, but he isnt played. I do not know why people think if we got another prospect he would see more time.....


The centers that had really big games against us were being guarded by Bo or Amare. They were usually left to double other players or chase the ball. The huge game Traylor had against us is a prime example. They werent dominating our centers... because they werent even being guarded.


Cliff leaving brought us Jud Buechler who brought us Bo Outlaw and a number 1 pick (who may or may not have been Amare....no one really knows if it was last years or this years pick)

Also Cliff has always been far inferior in the post season compared to his regular season stats. Not to mention he is getting pretty old

 

[JCSunsfan]

Certainly we need to improve our bench, but we also need an interior defensive presence and we need a shot swatter. The same guy also needs to be able to hit the 10 foot jumper so he isn't stepping on Amare's toes on offense.

We also need a backup one. Penny can play spot duty but we've already learned that it would be foolish to depend on Penny being healthy.

 

[Errntknght]

The overriding problem with the Suns is that FJ is such a lousy coach you can't even tell what the team really needs. Regarding a PG, for instance - when Penny was out our offense stalled much more than when he played. It also stalled when Marbury was off the floor (or not penetrating, as was the case in the early part of the season.) Exactly what would a 'playmeker' type PG have helped? It's not like FJ's offense has a bunch of plays for him to run. Heck, JJ can pass fairly well, he's got good court vision amd presumeably he knew the offense but he only helped when he was aggressive one on one. Maybe another PG in the mold of Marbury would be a useful addition, but they're not easy to find.

The center position is a worse quagmire. Big Jake was scarcely playing before he went out and Little Jake was a habitual DNP before FJ labelled him an 'energy' guy and had him running around the courlt acting like he was another Bo Outlaw - and committing a stream of dumb fouls chasing guards on the perimeter. Voskuhl might be able to help at the center slot if he was directed to play like a center - and he might even have a worthwhile mid range jumper or jump hook. But who the heck knows? The way FJ played him I'd say he doesn't have a clue. Big Jake is a bigger enigma - he looked good the one game he got to play against the Lakers. Did his back ailment keep him on the bench that much outside that game? Or does FJ have so little faith in him that he wouldn't even try him against TD in the playoffs. Then there is the long term implications of Jake's back problem. I don't see how anyone outside of our coaches could have a solid basis for saying either we desperately need a center or saying that we have the horses we need there. I wish I could say I had an iota of faith in what FJ is going to do with that situation...

 

[Wally]

The Suns might as well draft the best guard available..... They wouldn't know what to do with another big man anyway, after all, they have Amare.

Face it guys, if big Jake were available in this draft, the Suns would draft him and sit his ass on the bench..... problem would be, big Jake would probably go in the first 10 and the Suns would have to make a trade to move up,

A spade by any other name is still a spade.... kinda like a rose