From knee-jerk negativity in 2004 to blind optimism in 2010

[Timm Rosenbach]

In recent years, the Cardinals could do no right as far as the draft in the eyes of fans. Larry Fitzgerald was drafted because he was Denny Green's ballboy. DRC was a workout wonder. Beanie Wells was "soft".

I was even skeptical myself. But this year, I hear Cardinals fans beaming about the draft as if it went perfectly and I think this might be a bit short-sighted.

Dan Williams was the best player on the board, but certainly didn't appear to be the space-eating 3-4 NT that Terrence Cody was when Tennessee played Alabama head to head. The Alan Branch, Ryan Sims comparisons are not necessarily off-base.

A 3rd round pick was given away to move up and get a 228 pound middle linebacker; Was a 3rd round pick way too much to give up for a risk?

A wide receiver was drafted when there were still good corners on the board. Then McFadden was traded.

A fourth round pick was used on a guy who may be "red-shirting". There were also good corners on the board at the time.

A 6th round pick and McFadden were given up for a QB with turnover issues against small school competition.

I can't complain about rounds 6 and 7, but what team's fans can.

I just don't see the beam of light that some other fans are seeing. It wasn't a terrible draft, but I sure don't see it as great. I trust in Whiz too, but only time will tell whether this could be just like the 2007 draft with numerous busts and reaches along with a trade-up that flushed a pick down the toilet for Alan Branch.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

If your comparing Williams to Branch in really any way, your already off base. To get the consensus 3-4 NT out of this draft at #26 is the type of move that can define a defense for years. To play Devils Advocate, Cody is a MUCH bigger risk (no pun intended) and was drafted where he was because of that risk. Theres questions on every player in the draft.

I have been on Daryl Washington from February on so you won't be able to tell me I have blind optimisim on that pick.

I know little of Roberts but from what I have seen and read, I don't see any reason to be upset about the pick.

Schofield excites me quite a bit but the best thing about that pick is that it shows how the Cardinals have changed. 5 years ago they never make that move and show that type of patience and foresight.

Skelton was the midround QB I liked so you won't find me knashing my teeth on that. Its Wiz's first draft pick at that position and I am more then okay with him trading McFadden for that. Whether you disagree or not, McFadden wasn't going to be here next year anyway.

6 and 7 are meh picks for me honestly, but again they are 6 - 7 picks where you take risks or situational players. Conversely if we would have taken Jefferson instead of Jorrick in the 6th, people would be doing cartwheels. So we got both of them anyway.

The difference in 2004 and 2010 is not the attitudes of the fans towards the individual players selected. Its the excitement about the commitment to a program and adhering to the program. Go read Harry and Mitchs mose recent posts again and you will see what I am pointing too.

So be pessimisstic if you like. But I personally couldn't have dreamed up a better 1-2 pick combo myself. I certainly didn't think Williams was going to be available, and would have been ecstatic with Cody and Washington. Getting Williams and Washington was a dream for me.

We also added a high ceiling OLB and a QB who physical skill I liked better then anyother QB in the draft. I don't love every pick, but I liked 4 of them enough for me to consider it a success.

Drafts are like weddings. The day afterward EVERYONE thinks the future is bright. The proof is in the seasons to come.

So let em eat cake. Our being pissed or happy won't matter one bit once the players hit Flagstaff in a few months anyways.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Some of us are naturally, relentlessly, nauseatingly optomistic.

 

[overseascardfan]

In a perfect world we would have been able to get Washington at #58, Brandon Ghee at #85, Thaddeus Gibson at #86. But AZ didn't feel Washington would have dropped 10 picks so they went up to get him, 20/20 hindsight.

I just don't see why we took a CB that did not even play last year over a guy like Donovan Warren who may be slow for a CB but was pretty good at Michigan and Jim Dray who has an ACL injury to his medical history over a guy like Colin Peek. To be fair though, no other team felt Warren or Peek were worthy of a draft pick but NYJ and ATL sure did nab them as UDFA's.

 

[Zeno]

I was even skeptical myself. But this year, I hear Cardinals fans beaming about the draft as if it went perfectly and I think this might be a bit short-sighted.

Dan Williams was the best player on the board, but certainly didn't appear to be the space-eating 3-4 NT that Terrence Cody was when Tennessee played Alabama head to head. The Alan Branch, Ryan Sims comparisons are not necessarily off-base.

A 3rd round pick was given away to move up and get a 228 pound middle linebacker; Was a 3rd round pick way too much to give up for a risk?

A wide receiver was drafted when there were still good corners on the board. Then McFadden was traded.

A fourth round pick was used on a guy who may be "red-shirting". There were also good corners on the board at the time.

A 6th round pick and McFadden were given up for a QB with turnover issues against small school competition.

I can't complain about rounds 6 and 7, but what team's fans can.

I just don't see the beam of light that some other fans are seeing. It wasn't a terrible draft, but I sure don't see it as great. I trust in Whiz too, but only time will tell whether this could be just like the 2007 draft with numerous busts and reaches along with a trade-up that flushed a pick down the toilet for Alan Branch.

I'm a fan of Cody and think he will be good but Williams is a space eater as well, only more athletic. He took to the quality coaching he got last year and improved tremendously. I don't see the Branch comparisons at all, Branch had the tag as a guy who didn't work hard or lacked motivation...Williams can't be described like that at all.

I thought giving up a third rounder to move up was too much. If Washington plays like the coaches believe then it'll be bargain, I am skeptical on his first year impact but we will see.

Obviously the Cardinals thought Roberts had a higher grade than any of tthe CBs left. I'm pretty excited about the Roberts pick the more I read and see about him, seems like a hard working, talented, athletic player with high character. You can't have enough of that type of player on the team.

Where does the "turnover issues" stuff come from w/ Skelton? He only threw 10 INTs in 441 attempts as a senior...thats a pretty darned good rate. Besides the guy was drafted to be the 3rd QB with the hope he develops in to something more.

This draft can't be grade for 2 years or so anyway...I avoided the draft grade stuff right now as it is.

Sure we have some holes left to fill but I can't believe the coaching staff doesn't have a plan to bring someone still available in or they like someone already on the roster more than any of us realize.

 

[joeshmo]

I think its a matter of people liking underdogs. Its a philosophy I think the coaches have latched onto as well IMO.

You can put the "underdog chip on their shoulders" tag on probably half the guys picked last year and this year is no different.

Dan Williams - Supposed to be picked top 12, he didn't.
Washington - Supposed to be to skinny to succeed from an underdog school.
Roberts - Small school kid.
Sho - ACL injury at the most worst time possible after shooting up boards just a week prior.
Skelton - Small School Kid.
Jorrick - Small School Kid who didn't even play last year.
Dray - still trying to live down an injury from 2007.

Every single one of these kids are underdogs with chips on their shoulders, it is something I think this coaching staff gravitates to the most out of any other intangible out there. It is also intangibles that most fans will gravitate to and immediately like. Take a look at LSH last year, he was an immidiate fan favorite after a tearful interview with his underdog story. Does it mean they will be good players or even bad players, nope, but that is the psychology behind it IMO.

 

[Catfish]

In recent years, the Cardinals could do no right as far as the draft in the eyes of fans. Larry Fitzgerald was drafted because he was Denny Green's ballboy. DRC was a workout wonder. Beanie Wells was "soft".

I was even skeptical myself. But this year, I hear Cardinals fans beaming about the draft as if it went perfectly and I think this might be a bit short-sighted.

Dan Williams was the best player on the board, but certainly didn't appear to be the space-eating 3-4 NT that Terrence Cody was when Tennessee played Alabama head to head. The Alan Branch, Ryan Sims comparisons are not necessarily off-base.

A 3rd round pick was given away to move up and get a 228 pound middle linebacker; Was a 3rd round pick way too much to give up for a risk?

A wide receiver was drafted when there were still good corners on the board. Then McFadden was traded.

A fourth round pick was used on a guy who may be "red-shirting". There were also good corners on the board at the time.

A 6th round pick and McFadden were given up for a QB with turnover issues against small school competition.

I can't complain about rounds 6 and 7, but what team's fans can.

I just don't see the beam of light that some other fans are seeing. It wasn't a terrible draft, but I sure don't see it as great. I trust in Whiz too, but only time will tell whether this could be just like the 2007 draft with numerous busts and reaches along with a trade-up that flushed a pick down the toilet for Alan Branch.

Timm-----Apparently you don't see that getting the 228 lb linebacker WAS the key to the Cardinals plan for the draft this year. THis is the kid that had the athletecism to take over from Dansby. He was the best player on the best defense in college last year.

Additionally, once Williams fell to us at 26, they knew they had the space occupier that they needed to let this undersized linebacker perform his magic.

If you don't believe, (like all the scouts do), that Williams is the BEST NT in the draft, then read Holian's post about the Alabama/Tennessee game.
Holian is a staunch Alabama supporter, his heart pumps crimson, yet he said that as he watched the game, it became apparent that #55 in orange, was the very best player on the field. This kid has already learned from being coached at his position by Chester McLoughton (sp) all of the things that Cody still has to learn about playing the position.

Yes, there IS a lot of optimism with the selections that our FO made in this draft, but it is not blind. Much study has been done this off season, and those who paid attention could see the handwriting on the wall, as Whiz and company went about their business. There were lots of little tip offs, like sending a delegation to Fordham to work out Skelton personally. Whiz also let out that he REALLY liked Washington, something that he is usually pretty close mouthed about leading up to the draft.

Yes, a lot of us are VERY happy with this draft, not only for what it brought us, by especially from what the FO had to go through during the draft to make it happen. That, (BELIEVE ME), is a first for our guys, at least on this scale. I certainly hope that it is not the last time we see this though, and I am almost certain that it won't be.

Our Cardinals coaching staff, scouting unit, and front office was supremely prepared for this draft, just like they were for the SB playoff run of '08. The only thing they lucked into this time was Williams falling to us, and even then, when you really do your homework, things have a tendency to fall into place.

 

[slinslin]

I find it hilarious how people are getting hung up on a measly 15-20lbs that Washington should maybe add to his frame.

As if that is the criteria for a linebacker. I'd be more worried if he lacked skills than having this kid get stronger in the weight room.

 

[Duckjake]

The only real problem I have is that many thought that the one of the Cards 3 top needs going into the draft was at CB. Then instead of getting a decent CB they trade one of their 2009 starting CBs for a 5th round QB.

 

[LittleDavis]

The best thing about this draft is that I am not looking for a savior. We have seen how good many of our draft picks are turning out; Beanie, Toler, Davis, DRC, Campbell, Doucett, Hightower, L. Brown, Breaston, Deuce, Watson, Rolle, Fitz, Dansby, Dockett, Smith, Pace, Boldin, Hayes, Wells. This is in the past seven years. We had some really good picks prior but no direction; ownership, stadium, coaching, identity.

We have great ownership in Michael Bidwill. Rod Graves has been a good asset and seems to work well with the best Cardinals coach of my lifetime next to Coryell and WIZ will supplant him, in my opinion.

We are finally building a team with a system and a direction. This was the first time I have seen a Cards draft when the staff took some serious risks to get the guys that fit THEIR system.

As a business owner, I understand this process. When I was a manager I looked for talent but that didn't always equate to success. As a general manager, I looked for core talent and had the luxury of hiring people that I could mold into the system I was developing and you can take raw talent and work with them when you already have the core. As an owner it is imperative to have the right people to work within your system and incorporate their own strengths to aid and bring your vision to a successful reality. I think we are finally at that vision point and not the managing point.

Not blind optimism but a change in direction and talent. The smart business decisions are there. Of course, you are going to miss on a few and make some mistakes but I believe this franchise has finally got the idea and understands what it takes.

Honestly, I believe the majority of this is because of Michael Bidwill. Thanks Mike, it has been a long 30+ years(-the last three).

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Timm-----Apparently you don't see that getting the 228 lb linebacker WAS the key to the Cardinals plan for the draft this year. THis is the kid that had the athletecism to take over from Dansby. He was the best player on the best defense in college last year.

Additionally, once Williams fell to us at 26, they knew they had the space occupier that they needed to let this undersized linebacker perform his magic.

If you don't believe, (like all the scouts do), that Williams is the BEST NT in the draft, then read Holian's post about the Alabama/Tennessee game.
Holian is a staunch Alabama supporter, his heart pumps crimson, yet he said that as he watched the game, it became apparent that #55 in orange, was the very best player on the field. This kid has already learned from being coached at his position by Chester McLoughton (sp) all of the things that Cody still has to learn about playing the position.

Yes, there IS a lot of optimism with the selections that our FO made in this draft, but it is not blind. Much study has been done this off season, and those who paid attention could see the handwriting on the wall, as Whiz and company went about their business. There were lots of little tip offs, like sending a delegation to Fordham to work out Skelton personally. Whiz also let out that he REALLY liked Washington, something that he is usually pretty close mouthed about leading up to the draft.

Yes, a lot of us are VERY happy with this draft, not only for what it brought us, by especially from what the FO had to go through during the draft to make it happen. That, (BELIEVE ME), is a first for our guys, at least on this scale. I certainly hope that it is not the last time we see this though, and I am almost certain that it won't be.

Our Cardinals coaching staff, scouting unit, and front office was supremely prepared for this draft, just like they were for the SB playoff run of '08. The only thing they lucked into this time was Williams falling to us, and even then, when you really do your homework, things have a tendency to fall into place.

#1. 228 pounds is significantly undersized for an MLB. Dansby weighed 251 pounds when he came out of college. Rolando McClain weighs 254 and Jerod Mayo weighs 248

#2. Jerry Hughes was the best player on the TCU defense. Not Washington

#3. I watched the Tennessee - Alabama game when it was played and someone here posted highlights of it during the draft. Williams got pushed around quite a bit and Cody took on double teams with dominance. Many feel that Williams may just be better suited for 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT than NT. We will probably know by the end of this season.

I am not saying that this was a bad draft. I just think that people are going a bit overboard in their praise: Especially considering that our secondary is currently a literal burn unit and will be the worst in the league if DRC gets injured (which he has a tendency to do).

 

[Assface]

I think its a matter of people liking underdogs. Its a philosophy I think the coaches have latched onto as well IMO.

You can put the "underdog chip on their shoulders" tag on probably half the guys picked last year and this year is no different.

Dan Williams - Supposed to be picked top 12, he didn't.
Washington - Supposed to be to skinny to succeed from an underdog school.
Roberts - Small school kid.
Sho - ACL injury at the most worst time possible after shooting up boards just a week prior.
Skelton - Small School Kid.
Jorrick - Small School Kid who didn't even play last year.
Dray - still trying to live down an injury from 2007.

Every single one of these kids are underdogs with chips on their shoulders, it is something I think this coaching staff gravitates to the most out of any other intangible out there. It is also intangibles that most fans will gravitate to and immediately like. Take a look at LSH last year, he was an immidiate fan favorite after a tearful interview with his underdog story. Does it mean they will be good players or even bad players, nope, but that is the psychology behind it IMO.

Fits right in with the "us against the world" mentality the team has had the last 2 years. This team seems to thrive on feeling dissed.

 

[40yearfan]

Some of us are naturally, relentlessly, nauseatingly optomistic.

Did somebody call me?

 

[40yearfan]

I think its a matter of people liking underdogs. Its a philosophy I think the coaches have latched onto as well IMO.

You can put the "underdog chip on their shoulders" tag on probably half the guys picked last year and this year is no different.

Dan Williams - Supposed to be picked top 12, he didn't.
Washington - Supposed to be to skinny to succeed from an underdog school.
Roberts - Small school kid.
Sho - ACL injury at the most worst time possible after shooting up boards just a week prior.
Skelton - Small School Kid.
Jorrick - Small School Kid who didn't even play last year.
Dray - still trying to live down an injury from 2007.

Every single one of these kids are underdogs with chips on their shoulders, it is something I think this coaching staff gravitates to the most out of any other intangible out there. It is also intangibles that most fans will gravitate to and immediately like. Take a look at LSH last year, he was an immidiate fan favorite after a tearful interview with his underdog story. Does it mean they will be good players or even bad players, nope, but that is the psychology behind it IMO.

Great post Joe. I never really thought of it from this angle, but I believe you have really hit on something here. We do seem to be trending in that direction.

 

[PJ1]

We are coming off two straight division winning seasons. The fans have faith in the coaching staff and management for the first time in a very long time. So I wouldn't call it blind faith at all. For what it is worth I am ok with the draft. Not thrilled but not disappointed. It will be tougher this year but let's not forget our division rivals have issues also.

Looks to be a real interesting season. I for one can't wait. GO CARDS!

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

We are coming off two straight division winning seasons. The fans have faith in the coaching staff and management for the first time in a very long time. So I wouldn't call it blind faith at all. For what it is worth I am ok with the draft. Not thrilled but not disappointed. It will be tougher this year but let's not forget our division rivals have issues also.

Looks to be a real interesting season. I for one can't wait. GO CARDS!

I will agree with this. I look forward to a Cards team that runs the ball more and can effectively execute play action. It really is going to be a new era without Warner and Boldin and I am ready for it. It will be interesting to see just how good Beanie can be after a full offseason.

 

[187]

The only real problem I have is that many thought that the one of the Cards 3 top needs going into the draft was at CB. Then instead of getting a decent CB they trade one of their 2009 starting CBs for a 5th round QB.

Yeah and the corner we traded also happened to be an absolute bum in coverage. Just because he had "starter" next to his name doesn't make up for the fact he had 0 int's last year because he isn't capable of turning his head around. Toler will have growing pains like all young corners do, but he's got a much higher ceiling than McFadden ever had in our system. Graves said he was open to looking at veteran corners that are still in free agency, so the nickel will be shored up one way or another. In reality I think we traded what would have been our 2010 nickel corner because it sounded like Toler was starting regardless of McFadden being on or off the team. I doubt Whiz and Graves forgot about the ass kicking our secondary received in the playoffs, I expect a move or two to be made in free agency. They already went out and traded for Rhodes which is an upgrade over Rolle. He isn't as flashy, but he's given up one TD in the past two seasons (and it was in '08) and was the starting FS on the best secondary and defense in football. I am really excited to see him play.

#1. 228 pounds is significantly undersized for an MLB. Dansby weighed 251 pounds when he came out of college. Rolando McClain weighs 254 and Jerod Mayo weighs 248

#2. Jerry Hughes was the best player on the TCU defense. Not Washington

#3. I watched the Tennessee - Alabama game when it was played and someone here posted highlights of it during the draft. Williams got pushed around quite a bit and Cody took on double teams with dominance. Many feel that Williams may just be better suited for 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT than NT. We will probably know by the end of this season.

I am not saying that this was a bad draft. I just think that people are going a bit overboard in their praise: Especially considering that our secondary is currently a literal burn unit and will be the worst in the league if DRC gets injured (which he has a tendency to do).

When it comes to Daryl Washington's weight, people are getting way too hung up on like 10 pounds. Washington said in his conference call that he expects to come in to training camp weighing at least 235 and that he has played at that weight before and liked it. Just off the top of my head I thought of two good 3-4 ILB's and they were patrick willis and lawrence timmons. Willis is listed at 240lbs and Timmons is listed at 234. Washington will have no problem getting up to 235-245 working with Lott's program in the offseason.

edit:
Just looked up a few more ILB's in a 3-4 such as Bart Scott, D'Qwell Jackson, Nick Barnett, and others and they almost all weigh 240, the others are +/- about 2 pounds. Dansby was just a big boy, not many ILB's play at 250.

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah and the corner we traded also happened to be an absolute bum in coverage. Just because he had "starter" next to his name doesn't make up for the fact he had 0 int's last year because he isn't capable of turning his head around.

Yeah, he was such a bum the Steelers wanted him back. But who it is isn't really the issue. It is having nothing behind DRC and Toler. I would venture a guess that not too many football people think that McFadden was worse than Adams, Barksdale,Colvin and Trumaine McBride.

The only thing I can figure out is that the Cards plan on using a 3rd Safety, either Ware or Johnson, in the nickel packages because they sure don't have a CB who has demonstrated they can play other than maybe McBride or as you say are hoping to find a stop gap CB to pick up as a FA. We all know Adams will get lit up.

Speaking of McBride, the former Bears CB, does anybody have information on him?

 

[LittleDavis]

Dansby is 6'4" and Washington is 6'2". If he can play at 235-240 I think he will be fine. Dansby did not excel against the run. He was a sideline to sideline athlete but did get engulfed by blockers. Washington may end up being the better player and I am glad we didn't overpay for an inconsistent OLB playing WILB. Sorry, never thought as highly of Dansby as many others do. Hayes, when healthy is a stud but only seems to get through a third of the season before his back flares and than he is extremely below average.

GOOOOOOOOO CARDSSSSSSSSSS