Gonzo-Should his number be retired?

[Tyler]

Found this story on KTAR kind of debating the issue. IMO we should retire his number. He was so important to the 2001 team as we saw in 2002 when he went down. He leads almost every offensive category in D-Backs history. Give it a read and tell me what you think, I am interested to hear opinions on this.

http://www.ktar.com/?sid=1267249&nid=184

 

[Brian]

Until I'm convinced he wasn't juicing that year I can't say. I think Schilling and RJ were just as, if not more, important that year.

Dunno.

 

[PDXChris]

Yes!!

 

[HooverDam]

Yes obviously he should be. I dont care if he was juicing or not, everyone was. RJ & Schilling were important too but the way they've burned bridges w/ the organization isn't going to help their cause. I hope eventually the D'backs and RJ can mend things up like Barkley and the Suns did because obviously RJs number should be retired and he should go into the Hall of Fame as a D'back, nothing else really makes sense.

 

[Gee!]

Yes obviously he should be. I dont care if he was juicing or not, everyone was. RJ & Schilling were important too but the way they've burned bridges w/ the organization isn't going to help their cause. I hope eventually the D'backs and RJ can mend things up like Barkley and the Suns did because obviously RJs number should be retired and he should go into the Hall of Fame as a D'back, nothing else really makes sense.

How has RJ burned bridges? I could have sworn almost immediatly after retiring the Dbacks hired RJ in some capacity.. Doesnt sound like they are beefing..

edit, here it is:

Johnson, who has a one-year service agreement to work in some capacity for the Diamondbacks

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/2010/01/05/20100105randy-johnson-retires.html

 

[TJ]

How has RJ burned bridges? I could have sworn almost immediatly after retiring the Dbacks hired RJ in some capacity.. Doesnt sound like they are beefing..

edit, here it is:



http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/2010/01/05/20100105randy-johnson-retires.html

Didnt realize that. That increases the chances that he retires wearing a D-Backs cap.

RJ was upset with the franchise at one point, but they kissed and made up

 

[dreamcastrocks]

No

 

[BC867]

Gonzo's hiring upon retiring, just as RJ's, assures that his number will be retired. As I believe it should be.

Not just for the Championship year, but for the mature, positive way he represented the Diamondbacks both on the field and in the community.

Contrast that to the goofy image displayed by Eric Byrnes when the D'backs tried to promote him as Gonzo's successor as the face of the franchise. That didn't last too long.

And, in realistic terms, it doesn't hurt the team's public relations to have a Cuban-American Hispanic receiving such honors.

 

[Gee!]

And, in realistic terms, it doesn't hurt the team's public relations to have a Cuban-American Hispanic receiving such honors.

Do people really think of this crap anymore? Especially in baseball where there is every nationality playing in the MLB.. I just really cant believe some guy in the front office is thinking about it from that angle..

 

[BC867]

I just really can't believe some guy in the front office is thinking about it from that angle..

Who knows? But doesn't it make sense that a team in a heavy Latino market would be pleased with broad representation in the front office?

Fernando Mania sure involved the Latino market in Dodger fan participation. He is still actively involved with the team.

Any marketing executive would be conscious of factors such as that when it comes to analyzing revenue.

 

[devilalum]

Before or after he gives his crying confession that he used steroids?

Anybody that thinks Gonzo wasn't juiced when he hit 57 is delusional.

 

[Gee!]

Who knows? But doesn't it make sense that a team in a heavy Latino market would be pleased with broad representation in the front office?

Fernando Mania sure involved the Latino market in Dodger fan participation. He is still actively involved with the team.

Any marketing executive would be conscious of factors such as that when it comes to analyzing revenue.

Once people start realizing that it aint about color, this world would be a better place..

 

[BC867]

Once people start realizing that it aint about color, this world would be a better place..

I faced my share of bigotry growing up because of religion. Unfortunately, it is too often about ethnic background, as ignorant as that is.

People of color are discriminated against because their ancestors are from regions closer to the Equator. How stupid is that.

As the old saying goes, "There is no gravity, the earth sucks."

And in reality, it does play a role in marketing revenue.

But you're right. Without bigotry, it would be a better place.

 

[HooverDam]

Anybody that thinks Gonzo wasn't juiced when he hit 57 is delusional.

Who freakin' cares? Babe Ruth didn't play againt black guys, no one brings that up every time he's mentioned. Everyone did it, it was part of an era, accept it, move on, your life will be better for it.

 

[devilalum]

Who freakin' cares? Babe Ruth didn't play againt black guys, no one brings that up every time he's mentioned. Everyone did it, it was part of an era, accept it, move on, your life will be better for it.

Ruth didn't have any control over the players he played against.

Without the juice Gonzo would have been worthy of honor?

Everybody else that exploded during those few years has had to admit they juiced, why not Gonzo?

 

[Black Jesus]

# Retired, No. Ring of Honor, yes.

For a # to be retired you have to meet a certain checklist with a team:

1. 10 Plus yrs duty, 5 Superstar seasons
2. World Series Ring
3. Community Impact
4. MVP, or a few top 5 finishes

He was the best offensive player on the best team in baseball, and the first face of the franchise, but he doesn't merit number retirement.

 

[DWKB]

Where does this "checklist" come from, exactly?

Gonzo's number should follow directly behind RJ's.

 

[Black Jesus]

Ehh, I take it back. Retire him and Randy Johnson.

I still think he was 2 seasons short production wise of earning a retired number, but we did get a ring and he was the first face of the franchise.

 

[chickenhead]

Who knows? But doesn't it make sense that a team in a heavy Latino market would be pleased with broad representation in the front office?

Fernando Mania sure involved the Latino market in Dodger fan participation. He is still actively involved with the team.

Any marketing executive would be conscious of factors such as that when it comes to analyzing revenue.

+1, especially since your original post was "it can't hurt," not "it should happen because..." The Latino baseball market in the SW has always skewed towards the Dodgers. It was a boon to have Gonzo on the team, and as an ambassador.

The reason he should be in the ring of honor, though, is because he won the World Series with a hit that's still played alongside Carter and Gibson's home runs in every playoffs promotion--for a team that otherwise doesn't get much national play.

But career stats definitely lead people to suspect not only him, but Bell, and Finley. Not to mention Williams.

 

[devilalum]

The second you retire his number someone will leak his name from the list and the Dbacks and steroids will be the big news not Gonzos contribution.

 

[TheHopToad]

IMO, a player's number should not be retired until their election to the Hall of Fame. That's what a lot of clubs do. It takes out the subjectivity of the debate and places a high standard as the criteria for such an honor, as it should be. Otherwise, if you do it for everybody that just has a few good years, eventually you're going to run out of numbers.

Something like the Ring of Honor is more appropriate.

 

[Tyler]

I can see it now, you retire everyones number and you will be seeing 20a, 20b, 24c, 12f. It would be priceless and cost alot more to get a custom jersey made!!

 

[HooverDam]

Ruth didn't have any control over the players he played against.

And Gonzo didnt have any control that everyone else was doing the juice. He, understandably, felt the need to keep up with the joneses.

Without the juice Gonzo would have been worthy of honor?

We'll never know, so Im not wasting any time thinkin' about it.

Everybody else that exploded during those few years has had to admit they juiced, why not Gonzo?

Everyone? Really? Further, I dont care if he admits it or not. How does it effect my life in anyway if he says he did steroids or not (hint: it doesn't, nor does it effect yours).

I Otherwise, if you do it for everybody that just has a few good years, eventually you're going to run out of numbers.

Yep, that happens all the time. So many teams out there that just have no numbers to chose from. Look at the Boston Celtics, Id assume they have more retired numbers than anyone:
Walter Brown - #1
Arnold 'Red' Auerbach - #2
Dennis Johnson - #3
Bill Russell - #6
JoJo White - #10
Bob Cousy - #14
Tom Heinsohn - #15
Tom "Satch" Sanders - #16
John Havlicek - #17
Dave Cowens - #18
Don Nelson - #19
Bill Sharman - #21
Ed Macauley - #22
Frank Ramsey - #23
Sam Jones - #24
K.C. Jones - #25
Cedric Maxwell - #31
Kevin McHale - #32
Larry Bird - #33
Reggie Lewis - #35
Robert Parish - #00

And theyll likely retire Pierce and KGs numbers too. So this whole argument about 'running out of numbers' is ridiculous.

 

[devilalum]

Everyone? Really? Further, I dont care if he admits it or not. How does it effect my life in anyway if he says he did steroids or not (hint: it doesn't, nor does it effect yours).

It doesn't effect your life but we are discussing whether or not we support his being honored by the Dbacks. If you're writing in this thread you have an opinion. My opinion is that the Dbacks need to be careful.

I can see a situation where he is honored and added to the "ring of honor" and years from now people go to the stadium and say pointing out his mural, "Yeah that was the guy that used steroids."

Do you support Barry Bonds election to the Hall of Fame?
Why do we honor people? Numbers? Character? Is it OK to cheat if you're a nice guy?

Just look at what a polarizing figure McGuire has become in St. Louis.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Just look at what a polarizing figure McGuire has become in St. Louis.

There are a lot of sanctimonious two-faced holier than thou self-serving jerks (too subtle?) working for the various sports outlets. Steroid usage was common and accepted by the teams, the players, the fans and the people that reported on the games. I find it unconscionable that we now try to throw them under the bus and completely dismiss the atmosphere of that period. This atmosphere changed in the early part of the 00's and I'm all for strenuous penalties from that point forward but it's time to acknowledge the climate and fully pardon those that participated prior to then.

That said, I agree we should wait a few years on Gonzo and let the dust settle on this issue. Although Luis doesn't have the same name draw that Mcguire has, we'd certainly have to live with more than a few "tainted World Series victory" comments. And once that started the media would jump in and blow it out of proportion as they've recently done with Mark (not to mention their shameful mistreatment of Tiger woods).

Steve