Got into an argument with Kurt Warner tonight...

[MoeIsBetter]

MoeisBetter Landon Moe
If we spent the money @kurt13warner wanted us to on Rolle, Dansby, Q; we'd be sitting in CAP hell WITHOUT Larry Fitz. Keep walking Kurt...
2 hours ago via

kurt13warner Kurt Warner
@MoeisBetter OK... let's see, CAP problems or playoff problems... glad u like where the team is right now!
2 hours ago

MoeisBetter Landon Moe
@kurt13warner Rhodes was great pickup! Dwash looking great 2! Cards spent wisely and that's why we're still on verge of playoffs w/out you
2 hours ago

kurt13warner Kurt Warner
@MoeisBetter If u say so!
2 hours ago

@MoeisBetter Landon Moe
@kurt13warner give credit where credit is due. Cards made great moves to stay relevant after you packed bags and went home. Only missing QB
2 hours ago

kurt13warner Kurt Warner
@MoeisBetter Love ur optimism... but I look at it differently... with those other players we were a SB contender!
2 hours ago

MoeisBetter Landon Moe
@kurt13warner but for how long? Cards org feared falling back into irrelevancy and had to build for future. Now looking at one of best young
1 hour ago

MoeisBetter Landon Moe
@kurt13warner defenses in football, top 3 wr in league locked up for life, and money to spend on young QB with potential in Kolb. I'm...
1 hour ago

MoeisBetter Landon Moe
@kurt13warner failing to see where any of that was bad decision making.
1 hour ago

kurt13warner Kurt Warner
@MoeisBetter I like the D... but still missing a lot of things@ but again, love ur optimism

MoeisBetter Landon Moe
@kurt13warner but you have to pay them Kurt. We wouldn't have had money to resign Fitz had those contracts been given out. We let Fitz walk?

kurt13warner Kurt Warner
@MoeisBetter No Fitz would have had to take less like the rest of us, to keep it together... that is how great teams r built & stay togehter

MoeisBetter Landon Moe
@kurt13warner no offense, but took less like the rest of us? You went to San Fran just to get a better contract lol good neg move but not selfless

Give lots of credit to the man for debating me, but really sick of him not giving the organization any credit for good moves they made. Either way he kept his cool and let me vent some of mine. He's my favorite QB of all time, but his opinion stinks lol.

 

[ANDY440]

I wonder if he regrets retiring and is trying to convince himself it was the right thing.
I like how you called him on going to San Fran to drive up his price.
I don't think he has to argue his point too often, all I ever see on his Facebook page is slurping

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

MoeisBetter Landon Moe
@kurt13warner no offense, but took less like the rest of us? You went to San Fran just to get a better contract lol good neg move but not selfless

That was awesome, update if he responds.

 

[52brandon]

I wonder if he regrets retiring and is trying to convince himself it was the right thing.

the grass is always greener. I'm sure he regrets it often

it's takes many years to build a consistent SB contending franchise. If we got Kurt when he was young, I'd bet we'd be 1 WR away from having a team that is better than the one he took to the SB

 

[NJCardFan]

Give lots of credit to the man for debating me, but really sick of him not giving the organization any credit for good moves they made. Either way he kept his cool and let me vent some of mine. He's my favorite QB of all time, but his opinion stinks lol.

Dude, I hate to say it but I'd be willing to bet that Kurt has forgotten more about football than you'll ever know.

 

[NJCardFan]

I wonder if he regrets retiring and is trying to convince himself it was the right thing.
I like how you called him on going to San Fran to drive up his price.
I don't think he has to argue his point too often, all I ever see on his Facebook page is slurping

IIRC the Cards hadn't made him an offer when he went to SF. IMO he went to SF not to up his price but to get the team talking to him. Funny how the front office is getting defended here.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

30 million under the cap in 2010.

I agree with Warner.

 

[splitsecond]

I don't particularly care about Rolle or Dansby. Both extremely overrated and overpaid at this point, both of their replacements are either better already or will be better. Both were intent on maximizing their paycheck, one got lucky by ending up with a ring. The other will NEVER GET ONE, nor will he get a probowl nod.

Kurt is way too attached to those losers.

Q on the other hand....

 

[JeffGollin]

I don't particularly care about Rolle or Dansby. Both extremely overrated and overpaid at this point, both of their replacements are either better already or will be better. Both were intent on maximizing their paycheck, one got lucky by ending up with a ring. The other will NEVER GET ONE, nor will he get a probowl nod.

Kurt is way too attached to those losers.

Q on the other hand....

Rolle, though he had his moments, was underproducing thru his final year with us (& we replaced him with Kerry Rhodes). Dansby also had his moments but not on a consistent basis. So with those two I tend to agree with you.

While Kurt seems to be overstating his case, a sinking feeling comes back from time to time that we let too many good players "escape from AZ" from time to time without our getting much in return. (Something doesn't seem quite right. Is it the AZ "dry heat?" Do members of our coaching staff or FO have bad breath)?

And it isn't just "win baby" - when we don't win, it seems like we lose our pr magic quicker than other teams who stop winning.

Whatever it is, the entire team from top to bottom has to figure out the right combination of money, winning record, treatment of employees, corporate culture, better pr etc. to make more of our FA's want to stay here. In this respect, Kurt (despite the rhetoric) may be onto something.

 

[wa52lz]

IIRC the Cards hadn't made him an offer when he went to SF. IMO he went to SF not to up his price but to get the team talking to him. Funny how the front office is getting defended here.

Cards offered 2 years $20 million, Warner wanted $14 million a year and tried to use SF to get it.

"Question: How much money does Kurt Warner need?!
Answer: As much as he can possibly get.
Forget all that Christian stuff when it comes to big-time athlete bucks; everybody wants every million they can wring out.
Warner's agent, Mark Bartelstein, wants us to believe that Kurt's too moral to create a controversy to get more millions, but he and his client can't have it both ways. Despite all the Jesus talk, Warner's obviously not that moral.
We'd feel better about Warner's money-grubbing if he'd announce that he plans to hand over everything past $10 million a year -- what the Cardinals are offering -- to the charity/church of his choice.

Warner's said all along he doesn't want to leave the Cardinals, where there's chemistry, or move his wife and seven kids out of the Phoenix area.
So why's he visiting the 49ers? To get leverage, of course, in his quest for a maximum contract. To scare the holy crap out of the Cardinals (sorry Kurt) so they'll come around.
But the trip to the 49ers' training facility, complete with team physical, might be good for the NFC champs, too. If San Fran makes an offer, then it'll be obvious what the soon-to-be-38-year-old's worth on the open market. We can't believe anybody will pay him the same money as the five highest-compensated quarterbacks in the league.
The Cardinals have offered a two-year $20 million contract, with half of that guaranteed -- which's a big raise over the $4 million Warner made last season. Warner and his agent want somewhere in the neighborhood of $14.5 million a year over two years, with more of the money guaranteed."

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/03/kurt_warner_visits_the_san_fra.php

From a couple more traditional sources
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f07624&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3942897

 

[Pariah]

I agree with Warner.

Me, too.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

And it isn't just "win baby" - when we don't win, it seems like we lose our pr magic quicker than other teams who stop winning.

Having only 6 double digit win seasons in 92 years will do that to an organization. That is only a 93.5% chance that the Cardinals are going to be mediocre or worse every season, ONLY.

Having 2 outside the norm, offseasons in 90 years will do that to an organization. That is only a 98% chance that the Cardinals are going to screw up the offseason they are in.

There is not much respect saved up in the tanks, and Derek Anderson drained those tanks in 2010, and what droplets were left were sopped up by Max Hall.

 

[Chopper0080]

I agree with Kurt to a point. As a team, we could not afford to cut loose Dansby, Rolle, and Boldin at once alog with Kurt Warner. This is just too much talent to let go and try and replace in an offseason or two. However, our situation was unique in that we had put ourselves in that position and did not really have an easy way out. Boldin was disgruntled, Dansby was looking to get paid, and Rolle triggered his bonus that made him overpriced for his position.

Of these moves, the one that hurts the most was Boldin because of how it ended and how much he meant to the Cardinals organization. His attitude needed to go and I believe that we received decent value for him, but it hurt trading him away.

The move that should have been avoided was Dansby. Say what you want about him just wanting max dollars, we should have overpaid to keep him happy long term. He was not prototypical ILB, but he did a lot for the defense and was a piece that did need to be replaced.

Rolle was a perfect storm of stupid. A stupid contract with a stupid clause that came due after his best year and in a limited FA market.

All said and done, Rod Graves is terrible and we should not have had to lose all of these players at once, because we never should have been in that situation. Too many holes to fill while staying competitive. I hope the organization learns this going forward, but I doubt it.

 

[Russ Smith]

That was awesome, update if he responds.

No kidding I like Kurt a great deal but what the hell he clearly used SF to get more out of us. I would add at his age he knew he was close ot the end of the line so maybe that's why he held us up for money like that, but the fact is he did it.

I would have liked to keep Dansby but I don't think it was an option. Rolle was going to be vastly overpaid and Boldin it just wasn't going to work because of Fitz, if we keep him and then give Fitz a bigger deal, history shows Anquan would have been mad again.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Dansby should still be here IMO. At some point we will need to figure out how to lock up our young players the year before we have to use the franchise tag. We are horrible at being able to project how our players are developing.

Being pro-active saves you money. Allowing a player to let the market dictate his price is how you overspend.

Finally, Kurt is probably talking about some of the locker room influence that Boldin, Dansby, & Rolle brought. My guess is that he thinks that morale and leadership are worth more than the organization does.

 

[ARZCardinals]

I have yet to see him truly embrace his connection to AZ. He has stated, "We made it to the SB with a mediocre team."
He has never been a big homer player like Michael I, Mike Strahan, Marshall Faulk etc.

Shocked he even responded.....

 

[JAB]

30 million under the cap in 2010.

I agree with Warner.

What's there to agree with. The best this team could do was 10 and 6 as a regular-season record with this so-called Super Bowl contender. The year we went to the Super Bowl we were 9 and 7 and got very hot. Our defense was horrible but got every turnover and bounce until the last two minutes of the Super Bowl. Our defense is just now the second half of last season started playing like a defense that could win a Super Bowl. That 08 team had a lot of holes that got masked by one of the hottest streaks in NFL history. We were only a true Super Bowl contender when Kurt Warner was throwing more touchdowns than incompletions. If he wasn't doing that we were getting our butts handed to us. We definitely IMO did not need to overpay defensive players that weren't consistently performing at a level that could get us a win when our quarterback wasn't playing at an unmatched level. We definitely needed to build a complete team that could win a game in more than just one manor.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

I liked Kurt's repeated use of "Love ur optimism" which seems to be Kurt's version of "Buzz off buddy."

 

[JAB]

As far as the 30 million under the cap goes that also was just a perfect storm of unfortunate events. There was the elite eight rules, Kurt Warner retiring, and throw in Role and Dansby turning down the richest contracts for players in their positions in NFL history and that's going to happen. What was the front office supposed to do overpay average players so they don't look cheap. Tell me exactly who was available under the elite eight rules that we could have spent that money on. I'm thankful they didn't overpay for nobodies because if they did we would not have the cap room to even make a run at Peyton Manning right now. And if we don't sign him we can as we have spend that money on elite talent that we weren't able to spend it on that season.

 

[MoeIsBetter]

To be fair, it's not him having his own opinion that bothers me. He played with those guys; he should be a little biased. What gets me though is he fails to ever give the organization any credit for the moves (and great moves at that) to replace all those players (other than Q). I'll take Larry, Rhodes, DWash over Boldin, Rolle, Dansby any day. And even if Kurt disagrees with that, he has to know that they are still really good moves. Two years ago Rhodes was arguably our best defender; DWash was one of our best players last season (edged out over CC...Who also wouldn't be resigned had we been paying those huge contacts).

 

[Totally_Red]

The 2010 offseason and time immediately preceding was horribly mismanaged in my opinion. To this day the team has not come close to 'replacing' Anquan Boldin or Kurt Warner or even Steve Breaston for that matter.

Last year's draft was a good one in my opinion, but the franchise needs to be able to retain good talent like Boldin, Karlos Dansby and Calais Campbell. Solid core players are essential.

As for Warner, he 'took' 11.5 million instead of the 14-million he was offered by S.F. That is taking less to keep a team together instead of going for every last nickle. Is it his fault the franchise tried to low-ball him after the Super Bowl run?

 

[CtCardinals78]

I can see both sides of this. Neither side is 100% wrong or right. The Cards do seem to cut their players loose much too early too often. I was alright with Rolle leaving, but think Dansby and Q should have stayed. This organization is much too slow re-signing their players. CC's contract has been in negotiations since October and they still can't get it done. At some point you needs to build a core group of players to build a team around, not just 1 or two. This organization still doesn't get it.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I can see both sides of this. Neither side is 100% wrong or right. The Cards do seem to cut their players loose much too early too often. I was alright with Rolle leaving, but think Dansby and Q should have stayed. This organization is much too slow re-signing their players. CC's contract has been in negotiations since October and they still can't get it done. At some point you needs to build a core group of players to build a team around, not just 1 or two. This organization still doesn't get it.

No doubt keeping a solid core is important, but we sometimes forget the tremendous amount of turnover throughout the league from year to year. I heard, believe correctly, that there were only 13 Giants and Pats players who had faced each other in their last SB encounter. If that be the case that would a relatively 87% turnover in 3 seasons or so.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

As far as the 30 million under the cap goes that also was just a perfect storm of unfortunate events. There was the elite eight rules, Kurt Warner retiring, and throw in Role and Dansby turning down the richest contracts for players in their positions in NFL history and that's going to happen. What was the front office supposed to do overpay average players so they don't look cheap. Tell me exactly who was available under the elite eight rules that we could have spent that money on. I'm thankful they didn't overpay for nobodies because if they did we would not have the cap room to even make a run at Peyton Manning right now. And if we don't sign him we can as we have spend that money on elite talent that we weren't able to spend it on that season.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

As far as the 30 million under the cap goes that also was just a perfect storm of unfortunate events. There was the elite eight rules, Kurt Warner retiring, and throw in Role and Dansby turning down the richest contracts for players in their positions in NFL history and that's going to happen. What was the front office supposed to do overpay average players so they don't look cheap. Tell me exactly who was available under the elite eight rules that we could have spent that money on. I'm thankful they didn't overpay for nobodies because if they did we would not have the cap room to even make a run at Peyton Manning right now. And if we don't sign him we can as we have spend that money on elite talent that we weren't able to spend it on that season.

+2.