Grading Suns First Round Picks Over 50 Years

[1tinsoldier]

there is the history of Suns first round picks at the bottom of this page:
https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...-mavefricks-nba-comeback-z/796854002/?src=rss

interested in how you'd grade Suns first round drafting as a whole over 50 years?

it didn't look good to me
C- at best?
granted they had more than their share of playoff appearances for many years
and not much lottery ball luck
so they may not have gotten a balanced share of high picks

 

[Chaplin]

LOL, the title makes it look like this is a poll about how much you like Ayton.

 

[Chaplin]

I went B- because we do pretty well with mid- to late-firsts, thanks to Steve Nash and Barbosa. Even Amare and Marion are in that "mid-" area of the draft. Michael Finley, Dan Majerle, Larry Nance, Oliver Miller, Wes Person... all mid- to late-1st's.

 

[Superbone]

LOL, the title makes it look like this is a poll about how much you like Ayton.

We do only have one #1 pick in our 50 year history so I'll give an A for Ayton. Now, as far as first round picks, I'll have to study the list.

 

[1tinsoldier]

I went B- because we do pretty well with mid- to late-firsts, thanks to Steve Nash and Barbosa. Even Amare and Marion are in that "mid-" area of the draft. Michael Finley, Dan Majerle, Larry Nance, Oliver Miller, Wes Person... all mid- to late-1st's.

that's fair to say.
though Oliver Miller was not a success story -- you can blame his weight conditioning
and Wes Person and Barbosa were moderate successes

 

[1tinsoldier]

oops. the poll should read First Round instead #1

 

[jf-08]

oops. the poll should read First Round instead #1

Got it.

 

[Phrazbit]

Given the scarcity of top 3 picks in our franchise history, if you're talking overall quality in relation to where we've drafted... we're probably one of the best drafting teams in league history.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Given the scarcity of top 3 picks in our franchise history, if you're talking overall quality in relation to where we've drafted... we're probably one of the best drafting teams in league history.

I’d agree with this

 

[Errntknght]

One word - Percudani

 

[1tinsoldier]

Given the scarcity of top 3 picks in our franchise history, if you're talking overall quality in relation to where we've drafted... we're probably one of the best drafting teams in league history.

i see too many duds on the list to justify that

hypothetically speaking
if there were 300 stars over 50 years, each team should average 10 (based on 30 teams, though there were less)
if the avg pick placement was 15 and the Suns' avg was 17 the score would be adjusted

but they would also need to be penalized for their above or below average of busts or duds

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't see the point of the pole since we've had 2 different regimes running the team. I think it should be separated between Colangelo and Sarver's times as owner. I think they've done slightly above average overall. Yes, there are busts, but every team encounters those. The lack of high picks should be considered because even without those they haven't had a lot of trouble adding franchise players.

Here is a list of all of the teams draft picks. This is a little easier to view than the slideshow in the top post.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/draft.html

 

[Phrazbit]

i see too many duds on the list to justify that

hypothetically speaking
if there were 300 stars over 50 years, each team should average 10 (based on 30 teams, though there were less)
if the avg pick placement was 15 and the Suns' avg was 17 the score would be adjusted

but they would also need to be penalized for their above or below average of busts or duds

If you look over the rest of the teams you'll see as many or more busts or duds.

We have the 6th highest winning percentage in league history despite virtually never drafting anywhere near the top of the draft. And if you think 6 "stars" are getting drafted league-wide per season, you're out of your mind.

 

[BC867]

I voted "C-" at best over our first 50 seasons. I see that the early vote is "B" but, compared to the rest of the League over 50 seasons, I don't agree.

Especially considering that they traded Steve Nash. As a draft pick, they had him buried as the #3 Point Guard to two superstars and did not give him the chance to advance.

That was not a successful draft pick. MVSteve excelled only when returning to the Suns in later years, not as a draft pick.

 

[Chaplin]

I voted "C-" at best over our first 50 seasons. I see that the early vote is "B" but, compared to the rest of the League over 50 seasons, I don't agree.

Especially considering that they traded Steve Nash. As a draft pick, they had him buried as the #3 Point Guard to two superstars and did not give him the chance to advance.

That was not a successful draft pick. MVSteve excelled only when returning to the Suns in later years, not as a draft pick.

Sure it was. He was part of what got Jason Kidd in Phoenix, after all.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sure it was. He was part of what got Jason Kidd in Phoenix, after all.

Yeah I think grading anything other than what the player turned out to be (like subsequent trades) isn’t really what’s contemplated here.

 

[Hoop Head]

Sure it was. He was part of what got Jason Kidd in Phoenix, after all.

No he wasn't. Nash was traded after the Suns already Nash. He was sent to Dallas for Pat Garrity, filler, and a future 1st, that ended up being Marion. Nash played with Kidd on the Suns.

I don't think a pick should be knocked because a player didn't excel here. Especially in a Nash situation where he was traded for some good assets, or rather asset in the pick used for Marion. If he walked in free agency and then excelled elsewhere I can see the knock but he was traded for something.

 

[Phrazbit]

I voted "C-" at best over our first 50 seasons. I see that the early vote is "B" but, compared to the rest of the League over 50 seasons, I don't agree.

Especially considering that they traded Steve Nash. As a draft pick, they had him buried as the #3 Point Guard to two superstars and did not give him the chance to advance.

That was not a successful draft pick. MVSteve excelled only when returning to the Suns in later years, not as a draft pick.

They drafted Nash, who was really good, they had a 3rd string point guard good enough that the Mavs gave up the 9th pick in the draft for him... which we used to take Shawn Marion.

Your example is actually a situation where the Suns drafted superbly.

 

[BC867]

They drafted Nash, who was really good, they had a 3rd string point guard good enough that the Mavs gave up the 9th pick in the draft for him... which we used to take Shawn Marion.

Your example is actually a situation where the Suns drafted superbly.

Edited:

Think about it. What if we had kept the pick to give us the years he was in Dallas vs. a Small Forward/opportunity rebounder who certainly did not have the potential to be MVP calibre?

'Superb' wasn't until we re-obtained Steve Nash, which was a totally separate deal.

But then, that reflects my ongoing opinion that BPA is not the best way to draft. I know most of you disagree.

 

[Phrazbit]

I agree with the concept of including whom you trade a draft pick for.

But, in this case . . . well, think about it. What if we had kept the pick to give us the years he was in Dallas vs. a Small Forward/opportunity rebounder who certainly did not have the potential to be MVP calibre? 'Superb' wasn't until we re-obtained Steve Nash, which was a totally separate deal.

Marion was an All-Star before Nash returned.

And Nash was not MVP caliber until AFTER he returned.

And that still doesn't say anything about not drafting well. Both picks were incredible finds given their draft slot.

 

[Chaplin]

No he wasn't. Nash was traded after the Suns already Nash. He was sent to Dallas for Pat Garrity, filler, and a future 1st, that ended up being Marion. Nash played with Kidd on the Suns.

I don't think a pick should be knocked because a player didn't excel here. Especially in a Nash situation where he was traded for some good assets, or rather asset in the pick used for Marion. If he walked in free agency and then excelled elsewhere I can see the knock but he was traded for something.

That’s right. Old man memory.

 

[Raze]

Any grading of overall drafting prowess HAS to be in relation to other teams. It all depends on who you compare them to.

If you compare the Suns to perfection, they will look awful.

If you compare the Suns to nothing, they will look amazing.

They should ONLY be compared/graded against other teams. And even then, you have to account for draft position, who was available, value they got out of the pick, etc. It's not an exact science.

Said differently: If this poll comes out to say they are a "C", what does that mean? If all the other teams come out with a D, then the Suns are the best ever. If the other teams come out with a B then we suck.

 

[1tinsoldier]

I don't see the point of the pole since we've had 2 different regimes running the team.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/draft.html

yes, even more than 2, but the poll is not about regimes or blame. there are many factors to consider and ultimately a lot of it is luck. i think it's just an interesting assessment of how things worked out over the Suns' 50 years.

if you think 6 "stars" are getting drafted league-wide per season, you're out of your mind.

nope. just picked that number out of my arse for the simplicity of it

If this poll comes out to say they are a "C", what does that mean? If all the other teams come out with a D, then the Suns are the best ever. If the other teams come out with a B then we suck.

you are correct, sir.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Any grading of overall drafting prowess HAS to be in relation to other teams. It all depends on who you compare them to.

If you compare the Suns to perfection, they will look awful.

If you compare the Suns to nothing, they will look amazing.

They should ONLY be compared/graded against other teams. And even then, you have to account for draft position, who was available, value they got out of the pick, etc. It's not an exact science.

Said differently: If this poll comes out to say they are a "C", what does that mean? If all the other teams come out with a D, then the Suns are the best ever. If the other teams come out with a B then we suck.

A--Superior to almost all other teams
B--Better than many
C--About the middle of the pack
D--Bad but it could be worse
F--Just plain bad

 

[Finito]

I would say A or B we've drafted really well especially when you consider we never really have been a bad team drafting in the lottery it's always teens and twenties