Green deal alive again

azdad1978

Championship!!!!
Joined
Dec 8, 2002
Posts
14,982
Reaction score
50
Location
ordinance 2257
By Jerry Brown, Tribune

It . . . is . . . alive!
Once again, the longawaited, much-anticipated, Shawn Green-to-Arizona trade has not only risen from the dead, it has grown another set of legs that should finally carry it through to conclusion.
Friday night, sources confirmed the Los Angeles Dodgers had requested, and will receive, a second 48-hour negotiating window for the Diamondbacks to reopen talks with the All-Star slugger as soon as this morning. Then Arizona general partner Ken Kendrick confirmed the two teams had agreed on a revised trade that would send Green to Arizona for catching prospect Dioner Navarro, minor league pitcher William Juarez and two other pitching prospects. In return the Dodgers are expected to send up to $10 million, an increase from the $8 million they offered last week, to cover the $2 million difference between what the D-Backs offered Green and what he was seeking in a three-year contract extension.

That gives Arizona until Monday to reach an agreement with Green.

At the same time, Arizona has made a contract offer to left-handed pitcher Shawn Estes, in an attempt to complete their starting rotation for 2005.

All this comes just two days after a deal that would have sent Green and $8 million to Arizona for Navarro and Juarez fell apart when the D-Backs couldn’t work out an extension of Green’s current contract — set to pay him $16 million in 2004. At that point, Arizona was believed to be offering a restructured, three-year deal worth about $30 million.

Kendrick said that "money will be less of an issue’’ during this third round of negotiations with Green — meaning perks like ballpark suites and perhaps a no-trade clause to cover the length of the extension would help bring the two sides together. It could also mean that the Dodgers are willing to increase their $8 million offer in the revised deal.

It appears Arizona has continued contract talks with Green through the Dodgers since the first 48-hour window expired at 10 a.m. Thursday. Those talks, according to a source close to Green, appear to have moved the two sides into position for a final agreement that will put the 32-year-old in right field and in the middle of the Arizona lineup.

"We feel like with work that has been done with the Dodgers, we can have some good follow-up with Shawn when we talk,’’ Kendrick said from his home.

The Dodgers want the Green deal to be done quickly for their own reasons. They will use the money they save by trading Green to finalize a four-year, $36 million contract with Boston Red Sox postseason hero, and now free agent, pitcher Derek Lowe. Sources said Lowe could be introduced along with
another recent signing, pitcher Odalis Perez, at a press conference, which has been scheduled for Monday.

They might be able to introduce Navarro as well. He was shipped to Arizona with pitchers Javier Vazquez and Brad Halsey — along with $9 million — from the New York Yankees in exchange for ace lefty Randy Johnson. Physical examinations are all that stands between the final completion of that deal.

But first, Arizona and Green have to shake hands. Green’s agent, Greg Genske, told the Associated Press Friday night that his client was willing to again speak with the Diamondbacks.

‘‘If in fact the Dodgers and Diamondbacks agreed to a new trade proposal and they would like to reopen the negotiating window, we’re happy to engage in that process,’’ he said.

‘‘We were granted a short window (the first time) and within that window, Shawn was very impressed with the D-Backs organization and their level of interest in him.

"At the same time, it was a very difficult decision on whether Shawn was going to leave Southern California and the Dodgers.’’

So with past troubles in mind, the Diamondbacks are still keeping their options open.

General manager Joe Garagiola Jr. spoke with Harold Simon, the agent for outfielder Jeromy Burnitz, again on Friday, cementing Burnitz’s status as the top fallback target in case the Green scenario implodes again.

The D-Backs are also pressing ahead on other fronts. Dave Meier, the agent for Estes, confirmed Arizona has now made a formal contract offer to the Paradise Valley resident. The deal is believed to be for one year.

"Shawn has narrowed it down to a handful of teams.’’ Meier said, indicating Arizona was high on that list, which includes San Diego and at least two other teams.

Estes, who turns 32 in February, was 15-8 with a 5.84 ERA pitching in the thin air of Coors Field for the struggling Rockies last season. He would further shore up a starting rotation that would feature Vazquez (or a suitable replacement via trade), Russ Ortiz, Brandon Webb and a slew of contenders for the fifth rotation spot (Brad Halsey, Mike Gossling, Oscar Villarreal and Edgar Gonzalez).

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=34429
 

devilalum

Heavily Redacted
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Posts
16,776
Reaction score
3,187
This is pathetic!

Maybe they'll give us $20 million if we throw in the entire farm system.

The tell us the have the money then the turn around and start selling off all of our young talent.

Maybe they should just auction them off on ebay.
 

AZZenny

Registered User
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Posts
9,235
Reaction score
2
Location
Cave Creek
Heheh - I know who I'M bidding on!! :mrgreen:


Pathetic AND stupidtstupidstupid. Three years, $30 Million, NO TRADE?! - My God, I know I keep repeating myself, but - no one has learned a frigging thing!! I would have MUCH rather kept Sexson for 3 at $33M if we're talking those kind of dollars. I think we're competing with the Mets for poorest planning/worst money-tossing.
 

devilalum

Heavily Redacted
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Posts
16,776
Reaction score
3,187
AZZenny said:
Heheh - I know who I'M bidding on!! :mrgreen:


Pathetic AND stupidtstupidstupid. Three years, $30 Million, NO TRADE?! - My God, I know I keep repeating myself, but - no one has learned a frigging thing!! I would have MUCH rather kept Sexson for 3 at $33M if we're talking those kind of dollars. I think we're competing with the Mets for poorest planning/worst money-tossing.

I have no idea why the no-trade clause is such a big issue. Who's gonna want to trade for Green anyway with such an outrageous contract?

Won't he be untradable anyway?
 

Capt'nCard

Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2004
Posts
151
Reaction score
0
Location
Tempe
would send Green to Arizona for catching prospect Dioner Navarro, minor league pitcher William Juarez and two other pitching prospects.


Depends on who the two pitching prospects are. Any ideas? :shrug:
 

schillingfan

All Star
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
672
Reaction score
0
Location
Northeastern Pennsylvania
I did some calculations and realized that the total salary dump after RJ's trade is $49.5 mil off of last year's starting payroll.

The D-Backs have money to spend and their farm system has some real comers. So they turn around and do dumb things instead of smart things. They are positioned to really do some great stuff and they want Shawn Green. I could take him for one year - but after 2005 there will be some farm hands ready and he will be really declining and blocking younger, cheaper, better kids.

Argh.
 

coyoteshockeyfan

Fool In The Rain
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2004
Posts
8,942
Reaction score
405
Capt'nCard said:
would send Green to Arizona for catching prospect Dioner Navarro, minor league pitcher William Juarez and two other pitching prospects.


Depends on who the two pitching prospects are. Any ideas? :shrug:

William Juarez wont even be in the Top 30 Dback prospects according to Baseball America, and I doubt these noname guys will be any better, so I dont think it should be too much of a loss. Nevertheless, 3 pitching prospects for a guy that nobody knows how well he will produce and is going to block our awesome outfield prospects? Yikes!
 

nathan

ASFN Lifer
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
4,891
Reaction score
4
Location
Alexandria, VA
coyoteshockeyfan said:
William Juarez wont even be in the Top 30 Dback prospects according to Baseball America, and I doubt these noname guys will be any better, so I dont think it should be too much of a loss. Nevertheless, 3 pitching prospects for a guy that nobody knows how well he will produce and is going to block our awesome outfield prospects? Yikes!

Shawn Green could always be moved to 1B. Even in two years he'd probably still be better than Hillenbrand or Tracy.
 

boondockdrunk

Resident Drunkard
Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Posts
1,582
Reaction score
40
nm132 said:
Shawn Green could always be moved to 1B. Even in two years he'd probably still be better than Hillenbrand or Tracy.

Exactly, and then Conor and Carlos can then take over in left and right. I see nothing wrong with using some trade fodder to improve upon our horrible offence. I expect Shawn to move to 1st after this year or even by the end of next season. We really dont have any "big name" pitching prospects in the lower levels anyway.
 

Kolo

Registered User
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Posts
3,820
Reaction score
0
AZZenny said:
They won't be here anymore. And maybe neither will I.

Nice to know Diamondbacks fans are devoted. Why wait until we lose 112 games in a year? Why not hop off the bandwagon now? It's been three whole years since we won the World Series, after all.

Honestly, I bet if we traded Chad Tracy for Ben Sheets half of you would bitch about the fact that his k/bb ratio drops every second half and he's arbitration eligible next year and we'll never be able to afford to re-sign him, and Tracy is the next Wade Boggs after all.

I just don't understand the pessimism at us trying to improve. We sucked last year, and we're trying to get better. Let new management put the team together as best it can and wait on the season and quit assuming the world is coming to an end, for crissakes.

Oh yeah, I forgot--Conor Jackson and Carlos Quentin are both definite 30/100 guys within the next two years just like every other good AA corner outfielder in history, so we don't need a right fielder.
 

AZZenny

Registered User
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Posts
9,235
Reaction score
2
Location
Cave Creek
I am totally frustrated with the 'approach' being taken - too much money and space are being tied up on aging / injured big contracts like there's just no need to plan for the future. I really wish I hadn't already spent all that dough on season tickets, and feel like I was duped by promises of 'better decision-making' from Moorad's own lips. My naivete and wishful thinking for the franchise, for sure.

If they start selling off the better farm players as well, my aggravation will go over the top. Maybe they won't. We do have a lot of generally well-rated guys who I think are totally expendable - Terrero, Sergio Santos, Billy Murphy, Vic Hall, Cota, etc. - so we'll see.

I just am really, really tired of the way the offseason has gone so far - doesn't it seem like everything has been drrrrraaaagggggged out as long and painfully as possible?

Plus, people who know me are aware I wear my heart on my sleeve and my mood goes up and down with my perceptions of how the Diamondbacks are doing - like the roller-coaster they always are.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
16,507
Reaction score
14,671
Once again, I am shocked at the stupidity of this team. Giving Shawn Green 10 million a year is insane, and to pay him a million less a year instead of the possibility of keeping Sexson, a clearly superior player in every aspect is just sickening. Then, why not add Shawn Estes, this year's version of Shane Reynolds? Are the D-backs going for players that torched them in previous seasons? I know Estes shut us out opening day, and green had a decent average against us, but this is ridiculous. Looks like Rich Aurilia and Jose Jiminez are on the way, they always killed us. :rolleyes:

And Hugh, who the hell cares if they won the world series three years ago? Do they get a free pass forever? As far as I remembered, the idea every year is to build toward a world series. The moves that have been made recently only guarantee mediocrity at best for the next few years. I suppose this excites you?
 

Mojo

Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Posts
143
Reaction score
0
I think you guys are freaking out a little to much. Having Green around for 3 years at 30 million is a little rough, but they are getting him for nothing. To get Green and 10 million and give up a catching prospect they dont need and three no name pitchers its not that bad. And I know we have some talent in the farm system but they are not ready to play. THe team they are putting out there is not going to be great, but its not going to lose 111 games. You guys seem to want to go with all these guys in a farm system, we did that last year (albiet because of injury) and they were not ready and it was a terrible season.
 

Kolo

Registered User
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Posts
3,820
Reaction score
0
ASUCHRIS said:
And Hugh, who the hell cares if they won the world series three years ago? Do they get a free pass forever? As far as I remembered, the idea every year is to build toward a world series. The moves that have been made recently only guarantee mediocrity at best for the next few years. I suppose this excites you?

Only Mrs. Jass excites me, or at least that's what I tell her. That the Diamondbacks won the World Series three years ago, in my mind, gives them not a free pass but the benefit of the doubt. Be glad you don't live on the South side of Chicago.

It'd be nice if we could trade hacks for stars, but we can't. We didn't have the depth to get Hudson, so we couldn't trade for him. We didn't have the cash for Beltran, so we couldn't sign him. At the start of the offseason, I thought we were in line for another 100 loss season. Fortunately, we have some smart owners who've traded our present cash flow shortages for manageable long-term debt. The idea of going to see Javier Vasquez and Troy Glaus at BOB instead of Steve Sparks and Danny Bautista is encouraging to me. We may not win the World Series this year, but at least we won't suck.

And ASUCHRIS, intentionally sucking now doesn't mean definitely dominating later. This isn't the NBA, where you can tank for a year and draft Tim Duncan and suddenly contend.

And Shawn Estes is better than Casey Daigle (though I doubt his wife is better than Daigle's is).

Here's to at least 52 wins next year, everybody. Baby steps. :)
 

JerkFace

(Formerly offset) i have a special purpose
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
3,751
Reaction score
2,340
Location
Surprise
Hugh Jass said:
Only Mrs. Jass excites me, or at least that's what I tell her. That the Diamondbacks won the World Series three years ago, in my mind, gives them not a free pass but the benefit of the doubt. Be glad you don't live on the South side of Chicago.

It'd be nice if we could trade hacks for stars, but we can't. We didn't have the depth to get Hudson, so we couldn't trade for him. We didn't have the cash for Beltran, so we couldn't sign him. At the start of the offseason, I thought we were in line for another 100 loss season. Fortunately, we have some smart owners who've traded our present cash flow shortages for manageable long-term debt. The idea of going to see Javier Vasquez and Troy Glaus at BOB instead of Steve Sparks and Danny Bautista is encouraging to me. We may not win the World Series this year, but at least we won't suck.

And ASUCHRIS, intentionally sucking now doesn't mean definitely dominating later. This isn't the NBA, where you can tank for a year and draft Tim Duncan and suddenly contend.

And Shawn Estes is better than Casey Daigle (though I doubt his wife is better than Daigle's is).

Here's to at least 52 wins next year, everybody. Baby steps. :)

:thumbup:
 

WildBB

Yogi n da Bear
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Posts
14,295
Reaction score
1,239
Location
The Sonoran Jungle - West
Mojo said:
I think you guys are freaking out a little to much. Having Green around for 3 years at 30 million is a little rough, but they are getting him for nothing. To get Green and 10 million and give up a catching prospect they dont need and three no name pitchers its not that bad. And I know we have some talent in the farm system but they are not ready to play. THe team they are putting out there is not going to be great, but its not going to lose 111 games. You guys seem to want to go with all these guys in a farm system, we did that last year (albiet because of injury) and they were not ready and it was a terrible season.

Yea, I think he winds up at 1B. And a power hitting 1bman @ 10 Mil is not outragous. I'd prefer 27 Mil w/ incentive clauses but it's (10 Mil per) doable especially since the Dogers are paying us 10 Mil. for the last yr at 16 Mil. Sounds like a go.

We'll have that Oakland guy Bryant? in CF. And all the prospects or Green can log 1 yr. in RF with Tracy at 1B for next yr.
 

boondockdrunk

Resident Drunkard
Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Posts
1,582
Reaction score
40
WildBB said:
We'll have that Oakland guy Bryant? in CF. And all the prospects or Green can log 1 yr. in RF with Tracy at 1B for next yr.

Eric Byrnes is his name. I watched him play once, and he doesnt have a whole lot of talent, but he is like Eckstien. Works his butt off and goes after everything in the outfield. Very aggressive guy. I would love the trade of Cintron for him.
Heres his profile:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6558
 

boondockdrunk

Resident Drunkard
Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Posts
1,582
Reaction score
40
If this is true, we should go out and take over the D'back's front office... with excessive force.

The Diamondbacks are looking to acquire Eric Byrnes from the Athletics to start over Luis Terrero in center field.
The A's don't need to dump Byrnes' salary, but if the offer is good enough, they'll let him go and use a platoon of Charles Thomas and Bobby Kielty in left field. Scott Hairston, Carlos Quentin and Conor Jackson are among the bats you can be certain the A's are interested in.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
16,507
Reaction score
14,671
Hugh Jass said:
Only Mrs. Jass excites me, or at least that's what I tell her. That the Diamondbacks won the World Series three years ago, in my mind, gives them not a free pass but the benefit of the doubt. Be glad you don't live on the South side of Chicago.

It'd be nice if we could trade hacks for stars, but we can't. We didn't have the depth to get Hudson, so we couldn't trade for him. We didn't have the cash for Beltran, so we couldn't sign him. At the start of the offseason, I thought we were in line for another 100 loss season. Fortunately, we have some smart owners who've traded our present cash flow shortages for manageable long-term debt. The idea of going to see Javier Vasquez and Troy Glaus at BOB instead of Steve Sparks and Danny Bautista is encouraging to me. We may not win the World Series this year, but at least we won't suck.

And ASUCHRIS, intentionally sucking now doesn't mean definitely dominating later. This isn't the NBA, where you can tank for a year and draft Tim Duncan and suddenly contend.

And Shawn Estes is better than Casey Daigle (though I doubt his wife is better than Daigle's is).

Here's to at least 52 wins next year, everybody. Baby steps. :)

See, I suppose it is just a difference of philosophy. We know certain things. We know that the d-backs are a team with a limited amount of money to spend, which is why we dismantled the arguably the best pitching staff of the decade. We then decide to go young, and see that certain players have some potential, and that we have many good young players in our farm system. My theory, certainly not an original one, is to spend little now, and focus on developing our farm system. Get young talent, such as Vasquez, and let it grow with the team, because God knows, this current bunch won't win anything.

I certainly don't believe we should be acquiring stars, at least not unless they are very young, and are "sure things" such as Vlad Guerero last year, and Carlos Beltran this year. With our limited payroll, we just can't afford to make mistakes, like overpaying for mediocre/over the hill/injury prone players. We've shelled out a ton of money for Green, Glaus, and Ortiz, and it appears we are grossly overpaying for both Green and Glaus. THis is not my opinion, but the opinion of most baseball writers. For a middle market team, this is just not acceptable. The biggest thing that pisses me off more than anything is, we nickel and dime players such as Miguel Batista and Richie Sexson, a far better combination than Shawn Green and Russ Ortiz, and then end up overpaying for the older and crappier players. I mean, 11 for Sexson or 10 for Green? Is this even debatable? Sexson is better defensively, offensively, and is younger.
Time and time again, it is proven that teams with good pitching are the ones that go far in baseball. We invest 10 million plus each in Green and Glaus, while completely ignoring our horrendous starting pitching staff, which will be arguably worse than last year's staff, if that is even possible. Does anyone here think Ortiz won't be shelled in BOB, after having a mediocre year in pitcher's heaven in Atlanta? Who wants to see Counsell starting over a guy like Cintron, who started out poorly, but came on in the end of the year, and showed potential.... I just hate where our money is being spent, and see no discernable direction from this team. Start over, start young, invest money in pitching, because it is the hardest commodity to acquire.

I stopped giving this team the benefit of the doubt this year, after a string of horrendous moves, including the Durazo deal, who Billy Beane practically had a hard on for, and we got a journeyman pitcher out of it, the Gonzo extension, the Schilling trade, where talks went for Nick Johnson and Soriano,(too much) to the pile of crap that Boston gave us,(an absolute embarassment) and the Backman fiasco this summer. When the Marlins sold out after the Championship, at least they had a sound plan for getting back on top, which was predicated by the acquisition of young pitching and players that were great values for their cost. The D-backs have this pipe dream of competing, and because of that, their direction is completely lost, and we are quickly becoming an afterthought on the national picture. Pretty sad that a few years after a world series win, we have the worst record in baseball. If we praise them for when they are good, we should criticize them for when they are bad, and the d-backs front office has been very bad as of late, and it doesn't appear that new management is improving on the situation.

End Rant.

Send my regards to Mrs. Jass. :D
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
16,507
Reaction score
14,671
Some possible good news, Cameron may be our focus if the mets sign Beltran, if we can get him without giving up too much, especially pitching, it may be worth looking into.
 

Kolo

Registered User
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Posts
3,820
Reaction score
0
ASUCHRIS said:
When the Marlins sold out after the Championship, at least they had a sound plan for getting back on top, which was predicated by the acquisition of young pitching and players that were great values for their cost. The D-backs have this pipe dream of competing, and because of that, their direction is completely lost, and we are quickly becoming an afterthought on the national picture. Pretty sad that a few years after a world series win, we have the worst record in baseball. If we praise them for when they are good, we should criticize them for when they are bad, and the d-backs front office has been very bad as of late, and it doesn't appear that new management is improving on the situation.

End Rant.

Send my regards to Mrs. Jass. :D

You know, I think you're right as far as difference of philosophy. I can see your reasoning--suck with impunity, hoard young talent at all costs, and hope to ride young arms back to the World Series in a few years. AA power arms in the organization instead of Casey Fossum sounds pretty good right now. Because our goal is the World Series again and not merely getting worked by the Braves in 4 games every early October, maybe that plan makes the most sense. But personally, I'm glad we're trying to make our way back as painlessly as possible. Let's hope it works.

And Mrs. Hugh Jass appreciates the sentiment (though not her name). :)
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
16,507
Reaction score
14,671
Hugh Jass said:
You know, I think you're right as far as difference of philosophy. I can see your reasoning--suck with impunity, hoard young talent at all costs, and hope to ride young arms back to the World Series in a few years. AA power arms in the organization instead of Casey Fossum sounds pretty good right now. Because our goal is the World Series again and not merely getting worked by the Braves in 4 games every early October, maybe that plan makes the most sense. But personally, I'm glad we're trying to make our way back as painlessly as possible. Let's hope it works.

And Mrs. Hugh Jass appreciates the sentiment (though not her name). :)


The future will certainly prove one of us right, on the latter point, I would hope so... :D
 

AZZenny

Registered User
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Posts
9,235
Reaction score
2
Location
Cave Creek
I share Chris's philosophy. It's not that I want to rush unready prospects like Conor, Carlos Quentin, etc up here and have another abysmal season - I was one of the most vocal critics of bringing guys like Daigle up prematurely. But we AREN'T going to win the WS with the crew they're assembling this off season (I suspect everyone here will agree, even if the FO imagines otherwise), so focus on giving us watchable baseball, and put the money into building for a good young 2006 and a super 2007-8. That also means do not trade the real prospects for short term gain.

It occurs to me that they screwed up 'rebuilding' so badly, they realize they can't sell the idea to most casual fans again this year. OK, fine - but they still don't have to throw so darn much money at guys on the downside of their careers and sign them for 3-4 years. That means 2009 before we can start building a genuinely competitive team.
 
Top