Hau'oli Kikaha: Making the Case in Round 1

Mitch

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The first thing I have determined is that there are 3 players that I would take at #24 without hesitation. They are:

Cameron Erving, C/G/T, Florida St.
Melvin Gordon, RB, Wisconsin
Alvin Bud Dupree, OLB, Kentucky

However, I do not think that any of these players will be available as in my latest first round mock I have the Bears taking Dupree at #7, the Dolphins taking Erving at #14 and the Chargers taking Gordon at #17.

#1 Priority: OLB---Edge Rusher. In my mind, we simply cannot go another year without addressing that vital position in our defense.

The 3 OLBs I am interested in most are:

1. Hau'oli Kikaha, OLB, Washington.
2. Eli Harold, OLB, Virginia
3. Owamagbe Odighizuwa, OLB, UCLA

Now---here's the thing: Kikaha is not considered a first rounder in any of the well-known rankings. ESPN Todd McShay said yesterday that he considers Kikaha a "wild dog" as a pass rusher, that he's a first round talent if it weren't for his past knee issues. I agree---although---what impressed me so much was that Kikaha came back from his ACL rehab in 2013 to register 13.5 sacks as a redshirt junior and then this past year as a redshirt senior he registered 19.0 sacks, 72 tackles (25 tackles for loss) and forced 3 fumbles. He was a unanimous All-American. And get this---he had at least 1 sack in all 14 games he played. I don't think I have ever seen that (at least one sack in every game) from any college prospect.

Some scouts wonder about his size (6-2, 246)---and typically the Cardinals say they like OLBs with length.

However, I think Kikaha's size works to his advantage and the Cardinals' because longer DEs and OLBs have a more difficult time corralling and tackling RusselL Wilson. I think Kikaha's uncanny ability to pressure the QB and redirect to chase the QB down is made to order for what the Cardinals need on the edge.

When I watch Harold and Odi, I see top heavy upper bodies and tighter hips (in fact, Odi has hip issues) and I see that they struggle dipping their pad level for tackles as quick as an edge rusher needs to do in order to get to the QBs legs. Plus, neither one of them has the explosive first step off the snap.

What I like about Harold is how strong his punch is and how he can swarm the edge or bullrush it. He doesn't redirect as well as Kikaha---but he's got a lot of hustle to his game. Same with Odi---who physically is about as ideal as one can be for an NFL 34OLB.

But then one has to consider the production.

Harold had 7 sacks last year---0 in his last 4 games---and only 1.5 in his last 7 games.

Obi had 6 sacks last year.

Consider the case of Barkevious Mingo, the LSU OLB who was taken at #6 in the 2013 draft. The concern about him was production as pass rusher. Well, guess how many sacks Mingo has in his first two seasons with the Browns?

Seven.

We got 8 out of Alex Okafor this past season. Okafor was much more productive in college than Mingo, albeit that Mingo is the better athlete. But is he the better pass rusher?

My point is---if a player isn't getting good production in college, then it's harder to think he will be able to do so in the NFL.

Hau'oli Kikaha has the motor, the speed, the power, the instincts and the variety of moves in ways in which Mingo, Harold and Obighizuwa do not.

Some will wonder whether Kikaha would start as a rookie.

To me it doesn't matter whether he starts because all we need him to do in his first year is rush the passer.

Just as the coaches designated Deone Bucannon to a key role in his first season, this is what they can do with Kikaha.

As for Bucannon---I think that kid is going to be a stud. He already is the hardest, bone-jarring tackler on the defense. He is a tone setter on a team that needs tone setters. Just wait until he gets accustomed to his role as a SS. Man, he is going to be exciting.

I think the Cardinals can do just what they did last year---trade down a few spots in the first round, add an extra pick (3rd or 4th rounder) and take the best and most productive pass rusher on the board in Hau'oli Kikaha.

if anyone thinks Kikaha will make it to #55, there is no way, not with his motor and not with so many teams hungry for pass rushers. In fact, it would suprirse me if the Colts take him at #29 or Green Bay at #30 or the Saints at #31.

I posted this video yesterday, but for those of you who didn't see it, here's his highlight tape: (yes we all know a highlight tape is only a highlight tape---but I can tell you I watched whole halves of this kid and was impressed with virtually every snap):

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If it was not for the two acl tears I would be all for it. However I hate taking

injury risks in the first round. Harold may go to the Steelers at 22. He is

from Virginia Beach Virginia. Same hometown of Tomlin. They are desperate

for edge rushers too.
 

BW52

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Kikhaha-the 2 knee injuries still raise red flags-Round 1 knee injuries make me think of andre Wadsworth.
Erving seems okay at 3 spots and outstanding in none.
Dupree -yes
Gordon-no RB in RD 1.Bigger needs
No to the UCLA DE-obualphabet-injury concerns
Harold -rd 2 guy
Trade down for more picks starting to look like a real option IMHO.
 

DVontel

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I'm almost certain we could get him round 2, if anything.
 

Chopper0080

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Reasons for no

-Does not have great size or burst. So he will physically struggle to match up setting the edge, and does not possess top end burst sround the edge to make up for it.

-History of knee injuries which is a medical concern.

-Does not have experience a stand up player. His experience is as a DE, and while he will work hard to learn how to play on his feet, many players fail to generate the feel of having to move in all four directions.

Pass in round 1, and maybe even round 2.
 

Finito

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Reasons for no

-Does not have great size or burst. So he will physically struggle to match up setting the edge, and does not possess top end burst sround the edge to make up for it.

-History of knee injuries which is a medical concern.

-Does not have experience a stand up player. His experience is as a DE, and while he will work hard to learn how to play on his feet, many players fail to generate the feel of having to move in all four directions.

Pass in round 1, and maybe even round 2.

Wow didn't watch much Washington Huh.

As a junior he had 12 sacks as a hand in the dirt defensive end in a 4-3 however the next year they switched to a 3-4 where he played OLB standing up and he led the country in sacks with 19.
 

juza76

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Wow didn't watch much Washington Huh.

As a junior he had 12 sacks as a hand in the dirt defensive end in a 4-3 however the next year they switched to a 3-4 where he played OLB standing up and he led the country in sacks with 19.

He played standing up but his main role was predator,pass rusher
Has liabilty versus the run and never saw him dropping in coverage
His burnst is good in college but is enough versus pro?
Maybe i m wrong but to me looks like jarvis jones,sack master college struggling in the NFL
 
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Mitch

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Wow didn't watch much Washington Huh.

As a junior he had 12 sacks as a hand in the dirt defensive end in a 4-3 however the next year they switched to a 3-4 where he played OLB standing up and he led the country in sacks with 19.

Thank you for beating me to the punch on this one.
 

don7031

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It's hard to stomach taking the 6th-7th-8th edge rusher off the board when you can have one of the top three guys at a less desirable position.

Washington's pro day is April 2nd. Kikaha didn't participate in the on field drills at the combine so we have to wait a couple weeks to see a 40 time. If he posts a pedestrian time, he'll be a tweener. It's hard to take a guy who'll just be a situational pass rusher in the first round.
 
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Mitch

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It's hard to stomach taking the 6th-7th-8th edge rusher off the board when you can have one of the top three guys at a less desirable position.

Washington's pro day is April 2nd. Kikaha didn't participate in the on field drills at the combine so we have to wait a couple weeks to see a 40 time. If he posts a pedestrian time, he'll be a tweener. It's hard to take a guy who'll just be a situational pass rusher in the first round.

Don---there is no such thing as a situational pass rusher anymore when teams throw 67% of the time.

We need a pass rusher---we haven't drafted one high in ages and we've suffered for it. Sooner hopefully than later we will finally make a move to draft one of the top 7 in a draft because all 7 will be gone by pick #55. Pass rushers fly off the boards faster than any other position. Plus---whose to say he won't wind up being as good or better than those who are ranked higher by the pundits?
 
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az jam

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He didn't work out at the Combine due to illness so his Pro Day will be critical.

From Rotoworld.com:

Hau'oli Kikaha: Kikaha preparing for critical pro day workout

NFL Media believes Washington edge rusher Hau'oli Kikaha must show improved athleticism at his pro day workout.
Kikaha (6-foot-2 3/8, 253 pounds) led the nation with 19 sacks last season and had 36 sacks and 51.5 tackles for loss across his career. Despite that mind-numbing productivity, many evaluators are stuck by the lack of athleticism they see on game film. "Instead, analysts laud his grit, determination and high-revving motor," wrote College Football 24/7 writer Mike Huguenin. "While he does have a proven ability to get to the quarterback, teams are leery of his perceived lack of athleticism and that he has had two ACL surgeries. He doesn't have to run as fast as Vic Beasley or Dante Fowler Jr. But his stock will take a hit if he puts up mediocre numbers." Washington's pro day is on April 2.
 

Chopper0080

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Wow didn't watch much Washington Huh.

As a junior he had 12 sacks as a hand in the dirt defensive end in a 4-3 however the next year they switched to a 3-4 where he played OLB standing up and he led the country in sacks with 19.

I did watch a bunch of Washington games, and playing from a two point stance and playing as a stand up player are two different things. Kikaha was a predator rusher only. He didn't have to drop in coverage or play in space. He was an undersized, stand up DE who rushed and stunted. His complete lack of experience showed in his LB drills at the Senior Bowl.

He was a very productive college pass rusher, but he can't play DE in the NFL, and doesn't have the athleticism to play LB. He could be a nice Sam Acho type player, but I am not taking that in round 1.
 

Chopper0080

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Don---there is no such thing as a situational pass rusher anymore when teams throw 67% of the time.

We need a pass rusher---we haven't drafted one high in ages and we've suffered for it. Sooner hopefully than later we will finally make a move to draft one of the top 7 in a draft because all 7 will be gone by pick #55. Pass rushers fly off the boards faster than any other position. Plus---whose to say he won't wind up being as good or better than those who are ranked higher by the pundits?

Too small to consistently play DE, and too slow to consistently play LB. Not many situations where that is worth a first round pick no matter what the need is. Great way to waste a high draft pick.
 

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Too small to consistently play DE, and too slow to consistently play LB. Not many situations where that is worth a first round pick no matter what the need is. Great way to waste a high draft pick.

This along with his injury history is why in my latest mock I have him going in Round 4. Not sure if he had his pro day yet but unless he shows adequate LB skills he could fall a little.
 

Chopper0080

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This along with his injury history is why in my latest mock I have him going in Round 4. Not sure if he had his pro day yet but unless he shows adequate LB skills he could fall a little.

I think he falls somewhere in the 60 - 120 area. 60 if a team is absolutely not concerned with his injury history and is comfortable with his fit, but he could go much later if teams are concerned about his injuries and athleticism.
 

Jay Cardinal

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I think if he is the guy, you take him. Rushing the passer is extremely valuable in today's game and Kikaha gets it done. I watched several Washington games and he was a force in just about everyone. I would argue that him and Marcus Peters made Shelton and Thompson stand out on defense.

I am not as worried about the knee injuries, but I am worried that 245 is a little bit light for OLB for Keim's taste. It wouldn't stop me though, he might start out seeing single blocks and he will win a ton of battles with his speed/power combo.
 

Chopper0080

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I think if he is the guy, you take him. Rushing the passer is extremely valuable in today's game and Kikaha gets it done. I watched several Washington games and he was a force in just about everyone. I would argue that him and Marcus Peters made Shelton and Thompson stand out on defense.

I am not as worried about the knee injuries, but I am worried that 245 is a little bit light for OLB for Keim's taste. It wouldn't stop me though, he might start out seeing single blocks and he will win a ton of battles with his speed/power combo.

He is a sub/situational player in the NFL. Similar issues as Kevin Minter. Not gifted athletically, and physically can't do all of the things required to play every down.
 

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He is a sub/situational player in the NFL. Similar issues as Kevin Minter. Not gifted athletically, and physically can't do all of the things required to play every down.

He looks gifted enough to get to the QB. That's all teams are looking for in terms of the weak side rush.

But I agree 24 is too early. If he's there in the 2nd that would be good value there for what he'd be asked to do. Which from what he's produced he does well.
 

Chopper0080

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He looks gifted enough to get to the QB. That's all teams are looking for in terms of the weak side rush.

But I agree 24 is too early. If he's there in the 2nd that would be good value there for what he'd be asked to do. Which from what he's produced he does well.

Meh...this is Michael Sam territory. College production is just one piece of the puzzle, and it is a small piece. Kikaha isn't fast, doesn't have great burst, and lacks NFL edge size. Normally that would mean a transition to LB but he really struggled with LB drills at the Senior Bowl. I just don't see the size to be able to hold up at OLB in a 3-4 or the field awareness to be a 4-3 OLB.
 

WildBB

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He played standing up but his main role was predator,pass rusher
Has liabilty versus the run and never saw him dropping in coverage
His burnst is good in college but is enough versus pro?
Maybe i m wrong but to me looks like jarvis jones,sack master college struggling in the NFL

Meh...this is Michael Sam territory. College production is just one piece of the puzzle, and it is a small piece. Kikaha isn't fast, doesn't have great burst, and lacks NFL edge size. Normally that would mean a transition to LB but he really struggled with LB drills at the Senior Bowl. I just don't see the size to be able to hold up at OLB in a 3-4 or the field awareness to be a 4-3 OLB.

Meh..It just sounds funny to me that you say this about Kikaha, but endorse Thompson who is more athletic, but many don't even have him rated as an NFL LB. Or at least more of a 4-3 weakside backer than 3-4. I mean he's all around better athletically but you'd also burn a 1st for him, and I doubt he'd be playing 1st downs and probably not a lot of 2nd's.

So where we are drafting your not going to get the elite pass rushers. You either have to go for one of the big boys Brown, Golden or Armstead.

Or be happy with someone like Kikaha, Orchid, Preston Smith or Hunter as situational pass rushers in the 2nd Rd.

But we might have that already with Martin so it might be moot anyway.
 

Chopper0080

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Meh..It just sounds funny to me that you say this about Kikaha, but endorse Thompson who is more athletic, but many don't even have him rated as an NFL LB. Or at least more of a 4-3 weakside backer than 3-4. I mean he's all around better athletically but you'd also burn a 1st for him, and I doubt he'd be playing 1st downs and probably not a lot of 2nd's.

So where we are drafting your not going to get the elite pass rushers. You either have to go for one of the big boys Brown, Golden or Armstead.

Or be happy with someone like Kikaha, Orchid, Preston Smith or Hunter as situational pass rushers in the 2nd Rd.

But we might have that already with Martin so it might be moot anyway.

So, in our scheme, speed is more important than size at the ILB position. This is why I like Shaq Thompson. He is fast/quick enough to get around blocks and make tackles in the backfield which is needed because we ask our defensive line to penetrate rather than hold POA. You need ILBs who can make tackles when the RB has to redirect.

At OLB however, our LBs have to be able to physically set the edge. Keep in mind that Okafor struggled with this and he is 255 - 260 lbs. We run our defense almost like a five man front.

My guess is that we will add a Preston Smith, Odig, Dupree, or Hunter type player rather than a smaller guy like Shane Ray or Eli Harold.
 

WildBB

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So, in our scheme, speed is more important than size at the ILB position. This is why I like Shaq Thompson. He is fast/quick enough to get around blocks and make tackles in the backfield which is needed because we ask our defensive line to penetrate rather than hold POA. You need ILBs who can make tackles when the RB has to redirect.

At OLB however, our LBs have to be able to physically set the edge. Keep in mind that Okafor struggled with this and he is 255 - 260 lbs. We run our defense almost like a five man front.

My guess is that we will add a Preston Smith, Odig, Dupree, or Hunter type player rather than a smaller guy like Shane Ray or Eli Harold.

I think we change it up more than run a straight 3-4.

I've seen plenty of 4-1-6's so you're right, Preston Smith or Hunter would fit fine with this.

Seeing as Redding is 35-36 already, that wouldn't surprise me if they go in that direction as well.

I think Arians thinks that the loss of Dumpster Dan might be bigger than we think.

From what he said in his presser about OL not being an issue now; I think that they're looking at that NT spot very closely right now in the draft.

If Malcom Brown is there he could be the no brainer pick in the 1st. We'll see how comfortable they are with Peters there.
 
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