Have the Bidwills been trying?

[TheCardFan]

They are easily the target of significant hatred and blame from most if not all Cardinal fans...you can't argue with the poor results but since 1998, do they really deserve the blame for not trying? I would have to say their effort has changed...the stadium, quality of players, player contracts, community involvement, etc...

I had forgotten about Jakes signing bonus until I read this and it made me think a bit...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/1998/12/21/plummer_extension/

 

[nurnay]

IMHO, the Plummer bonus and signing had less to do with trying to improve the franchise, but rather keeping a popular local hero in town and keep Cardinals fans happy.

 

[traveler]

People who blame Bidwills whenever there's a loss are showing their lack of knowledge. They have done everything. Signed big names, changed contract stances, built the greatest stadium in the world, hired a big name coach and now what do we here? They don't pay their assistant coaches. The real reason for this year is the coach. The play calling has contributed to most of our problems. This past game was the first sign I saw of imaginative plays and it actually led to the line looking good, James looking good and Leinert looking good. Can it be kept up? I don't know. Let's watch. When you hear a rant about the Bidwills, turn the pc off or change the channel because ther's enough ignorance in the world.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

People who blame Bidwills whenever there's a loss are showing their lack of knowledge. They have done everything. Signed big names, changed contract stances, built the greatest stadium in the world, hired a big name coach and now what do we here? They don't pay their assistant coaches. The real reason for this year is the coach. The play calling has contributed to most of our problems. This past game was the first sign I saw of imaginative plays and it actually led to the line looking good, James looking good and Leinert looking good. Can it be kept up? I don't know. Let's watch. When you hear a rant about the Bidwills, turn the pc off or change the channel because ther's enough ignorance in the world.

In today's NFL, the difference between winning and losing is razor thin, and coaching is extremely important.

If the Bidwills are limiting the budget on the assistants, then yes, they are contributing to the continued debacle on the field.

But I've yet to see anyone post a comparison of our assistants payroll vs. any other team, so I can't judge who's right or who's wrong with respect to that discussion.

With all that said, it's clear the Bidwills are more committed to winning now that they were ten years ago. Much more. They are getting there, and I think soon we'll see the product of their efforts, represented by an increased number of wins.

 

[conraddobler]

In today's NFL, the difference between winning and losing is razor thin, and coaching is extremely important.

If the Bidwills are limiting the budget on the assistants, then yes, they are contributing to the continued debacle on the field.

But I've yet to see anyone post a comparison of our assistants payroll vs. any other team, so I can't judge who's right or who's wrong with respect to that discussion.

With all that said, it's clear the Bidwills are more committed to winning now that they were ten years ago. Much more. They are getting there, and I think soon we'll see the product of their efforts, represented by an increased number of wins.

I've seen a Bidwill run team now for about 33 years that I've been paying attention. It's much much better now than it has ever been but they're still the Bidwill's.

The problem is, is that they run the team. Michael is now but what's he really know about running a football team? About as much as you or I do which is basically nothing.

I really don't think it's the money now, when you figure all players salaries are basically covered by the cap or TV money, then you figure they've gone from zero suite revenue to untold millions, to more millions in stadium naming rights and finally to concession revenue and just the fact that 35,000 or more seats are now filled that were empty, what you have is a big ole money truck arriving daily at Cardinals HQ.

I think they're just not good football managers, the whole organization is run poorly, there are people in departments that have been there forever that don't contribute much IMO.

What you need is to hire a GM and let him keep only who he wants, if that GM has to have a discussion with Bill Bidwill Jr on a players merits then the system is still broken, if Michael prys on his ear about this or that coach and forces a move different from a real pro's idea, again failure is waiting.

The sad thing is no matter what happens, that's going to be how it goes and I don't see that changing, which means I think their success will sadly still be severly limited.

 

[joeshmo]

People who blame Bidwills whenever there's a loss are showing their lack of knowledge. They have done everything. Signed big names, changed contract stances, built the greatest stadium in the world, hired a big name coach and now what do we here? They don't pay their assistant coaches. The real reason for this year is the coach. The play calling has contributed to most of our problems. This past game was the first sign I saw of imaginative plays and it actually led to the line looking good, James looking good and Leinert looking good. Can it be kept up? I don't know. Let's watch. When you hear a rant about the Bidwills, turn the pc off or change the channel because ther's enough ignorance in the world.

Signed big names is a mirage that gets fans in a frenzy every offseason. Who cares if we signed Edge when all we signed after him was Brown and Clancy. Yeah they signed a big name, now its time to complete the picture. A big name this coaching staff didnt even want, it was Mike Bs idea.

Also if the Cards truely are not cheap which is debatable and has been gone over many times, then they are truely stupid when it comes to running a football team or a winning football team. They are not football people and it is time they started hiring football poeple and then listen to them.

It is really as simple as this a crappy season of this magnitude does not rest on one single person shoulders, it rest on everyones shoulders which includes the management/ownership (who put the coaches and players on the field), coaches, and players. So any bashing of any of those groups is well within reason.

 

[football karma]

I think they care

I dont think they are cheap

I think that they want to win.

I think they are so risk adverse, it hamstrings their efforts to win.

I think that as a family they have control issues -- i.e. afraid of giving any material control of the family business to an outsider until they have known them for a longgggggggggg time. Really competent people hate working under that kind of environment.

 

[ReddBird]

There's been alot of Bidwill hate on this forum. In this town, in this state, in the Arizona Republic for that matter. I get some of it but most of what en fuego said was true. I think the Bidwells care and I think they're trying. They're not very good at it yet but I think they're getting better.

They live in Arizona. They'd have to be idiots not to hear what's being said and printed about them. They're far from perfect but they deserve some measure of respect.

When the stadium initiative failed on the first pass, they didn't have to stay here. I remember reading about the NFL-less cities offering big financial incentives to have the Cardinals move. Instead, the Bidwells pushed for a new stadium again. No big deal to you, maybe, but I didn't want to root for the Los Angeles Cardinals. I live in AZ, I cheer for AZ teams, and I cheer loudest and care the most about the Cardinals. I cheered when the initiative passed.

They were trying when they signed Dennis Green. I think Green's ego ended up crippling the team -- don't genuflect in his direction, you get cut and signed by the NY Jets -- but they gave him cash and control and asked him to work his magic. It turned out, there wasn't much magic left. But that wasn't the Bidwells' fault or intention.

Don't get me wrong. I think the family is still dollar-driven; the Cardinals would be playing at Pink Taco Stadium if the cash had been right and the Bidwells thought the NFL would go for it. But I don't think that all they care about is money. I think they want to win.

 

[40yearfan]

Signed big names is a mirage that gets fans in a frenzy every offseason. Who cares if we signed Edge when all we signed after him was Brown and Clancy. Yeah they signed a big name, now its time to complete the picture. A big name this coaching staff didnt even want, it was Mike Bs idea.
Also if the Cards truely are not cheap which is debatable and has been gone over many times, then they are truely stupid when it comes to running a football team or a winning football team. They are not football people and it is time they started hiring football poeple and then listen to them.

It is really as simple as this a crappy season of this magnitude does not rest on one single person shoulders, it rest on everyones shoulders which includes the management/ownership (who put the coaches and players on the field), coaches, and players. So any bashing of any of those groups is well within reason.

How can you say this with certainty? I've been hearing all along that it was Green who insisted on this hiring because he thought if he had Edge, he could get by with a lesser offensive line.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How can you say this with certainty? I've been hearing all along that it was Green who insisted on this hiring because he thought if he had Edge, he could get by with a lesser offensive line.

man, I've heard the EXACT opposite of this 40.

It's not a matter of the Bidwills not wanting to win - it's in human nature to want to win at anything you do. I just think they're utterly clueless about how to go about doing it.

 

[joeshmo]

How can you say this with certainty? I've been hearing all along that it was Green who insisted on this hiring because he thought if he had Edge, he could get by with a lesser offensive line.

Where have you been hearing this?

Everyone and their brothers have been saying it was Mikes idea. Sommers, Urban, Jurecki, and so on.

Remember Greens whole Pie thing, he wasnt joking.

 

[conraddobler]

man, I've heard the EXACT opposite of this 40.

It's not a matter of the Bidwills not wanting to win - it's in human nature to want to win at anything you do. I just think they're utterly clueless about how to go about doing it.

I credit Michael for dragging the team into this century money and business wise but that's like shoes on a world class runner, it helps, it's necessary but if I'm running in them I'm still going to lose.

They simply make a cascade of wrong decisions, their instincts are just bad, I'll say it one more time, George's eureaka moment where he does the opposite of what he thinks he should do would put us in the Super Bowl.

Bidwill's, we don't think we need a GM... pow GM.... I like this guy of the two, hire the other guy and pow great hire.

Pretty much just keep doing that everyday with everything and soon we'd be a powerhouse.

 

[football karma]

Where have you been hearing this?

Everyone and their brothers have been saying it was Mikes idea. Sommers, Urban, Jurecki, and so on.

Remember Greens whole Pie thing, he wasnt joking.

joe -- not questioning you -- but any link or anything? I have never read anything, but certainly dont listen to every minute of sports radio

 

[joeshmo]

joe -- not questioning you -- but any link or anything? I have never read anything, but certainly dont listen to every minute of sports radio

I have heard all 3 say the same thing on sports radio. As have many others.

Just email any one of them and they will most likely answer your question honestly and in a timely manner. They are very much so candid guys, more then you would think they would be. They have answered a lot of good questions for Russ as well.

These guys are allowed to say a lot more of what they know about on the radio or email then they are in print. Dont know why but thats just the way it works.

Green wanted more then just 3 players in that offseason. He knew that Edge would cut down how many players he could get in a big way. Again Green was not lying to us when talking about his pie thing. Green said all the right things after we signed him but you better believe he wanted more then just 3 players. Remember Greens comment about the FA offseason not going as planned, and Graves comment about we arent 1 or 2 players away from winning.

 

[blindseyed]

I think they care

I dont think they are cheap

I think that they want to win.

I think they are so risk adverse, it hamstrings their efforts to win.

I think that as a family they have control issues -- i.e. afraid of giving any material control of the family business to an outsider until they have known them for a longgggggggggg time. Really competent people hate working under that kind of environment.

Excellent answer fuego.
Cheese is also right, they are just clueless on what to do. How long have they owne the team now? 623 years? And how many losing seasons? 672?
They should hire a Ron Wolf type GM and give hm total control and stay out of it!
That won't happen so.......I'll see ya all here next year for the same conversation.....

 

[vinnymac]

first of all, how can the bidwills be cluess about running a football team. this team has been owned by the bidwills for almost a hundred years. they might have picked up on how to run a team. Bill bidwill has been running this team since the 60's. that is a long time. they know how to run a team. lately the people who they have hired who has had success were they have been havn't been successful. that is everyone. i am sure bill bidwill is ready to hand over the team to micheal. that is why micheal came to the team. the cardinals are going to start winning. it is not going to be this season. i am sure it will be with the next coach who takes over. i hope it is cam cameron.

 

[Cheesebeef]

first of all, how can the bidwills be cluess about running a football team. this team has been owned by the bidwills for almost a hundred years. they might have picked up on how to run a team. Bill bidwill has been running this team since the 60's. that is a long time. they know how to run a team.

they sure do - they know how to run it right into the ground.

I'm sorry, I've tried really hard since coming back to be above getting personal, but the above post is the most idiotic, head in the sand post I've ever seen. Doing something for a long period of time doesn't mean you automatically become good at it - and the Bidwills are living proof of that.

 

[vinnymac]

they sure do - they know how to run it right into the ground.

I'm sorry, I've tried really hard since coming back to be above getting personal, but the above post is the most idiotic, head in the sand post I've ever seen. Doing something for a long period of time doesn't mean you automatically become good at it - and the Bidwills are living proof of that.

appaerantly they do know how to run a team or at least keep it in business. they have been doing it for a while. they thought they put a winner on the field this season. so did the most of the nfl nation. i can safely say for the first time they have done everything they could do to win ball games this season. they just don't have the wins to back it up. that brings the cardinals back to the same ole same ole. my point is they put up the dollars to get wins and it still not working out. they finally got their new stadium and still no wins. they finally sold out every game in the season and still no wins. that points to they are actually trying to put a winner on the field. we will probally see the results of what a stadium can do for a team in the next 2-3 years. another thing, if the bidwills dont' start winning then they won't sell out the stadium and they won't be getting all that revenue like they want.

 

[conraddobler]

appaerantly they do know how to run a team or at least keep it in business. they have been doing it for a while. they thought they put a winner on the field this season. so did the most of the nfl nation. i can safely say for the first time they have done everything they could do to win ball games this season. they just don't have the wins to back it up. that brings the cardinals back to the same ole same ole. my point is they put up the dollars to get wins and it still not working out. they finally got their new stadium and still no wins. they finally sold out every game in the season and still no wins. that points to they are actually trying to put a winner on the field. we will probally see the results of what a stadium can do for a team in the next 2-3 years. another thing, if the bidwills dont' start winning then they won't sell out the stadium and they won't be getting all that revenue like they want.

I think this arguement is actually a good way to sum up this franchise.

Are they trying? Yes they are trying.

Do they know what they are doing, no they don't which is the point.

I can try to perform brain surgery, I can really want to do it, and maybe I want to do it really really bad but without the training it's going to look something like the season we are witnessing.

Knowing something about the Bidwill family after being a bystander all these years I'd say one of the largest obstacles is that the whole family is so invested in the team because that's relatively all they have that they cannot step back and give it to a GM to run.

Bill Jr and Michael have careers there, Bidwill Sr is a very loyal man to those he trusts, the whole management team is full of people a GM would want to fire.

That right there is the crux of the problem, they won't let go, or can't whatever and since they won't you and I and every other fan is in a fan version of ground hog day.

Bill Jr wins this battle and it's back to the dark ages, depressing thought really.

 

[vinnymac]

I think this arguement is actually a good way to sum up this franchise.

Are they trying? Yes they are trying.

Do they know what they are doing, no they don't which is the point.

I can try to perform brain surgery, I can really want to do it, and maybe I want to do it really really bad but without the training it's going to look something like the season we are witnessing.

Knowing something about the Bidwill family after being a bystander all these years I'd say one of the largest obstacles is that the whole family is so invested in the team because that's relatively all they have that they cannot step back and give it to a GM to run.

Bill Jr and Michael have careers there, Bidwill Sr is a very loyal man to those he trusts, the whole management team is full of people a GM would want to fire.

That right there is the crux of the problem, they won't let go, or can't whatever and since they won't you and I and every other fan is in a fan version of ground hog day.

Bill Jr wins this battle and it's back to the dark ages, depressing thought really.

i get your point. i have been a bystander for a number of years also. they finally figured out how to get their new stadium. took them several decades, but they figured it out. i am pretty sure they are on the right path. maybe they figured out on how to put a winner on the field.

 

[New Mexico]

People who blame Bidwills whenever there's a loss are showing their lack of knowledge. They have done everything. Signed big names, changed contract stances, built the greatest stadium in the world, hired a big name coach and now what do we here? They don't pay their assistant coaches. The real reason for this year is the coach. The play calling has contributed to most of our problems. This past game was the first sign I saw of imaginative plays and it actually led to the line looking good, James looking good and Leinert looking good. Can it be kept up? I don't know. Let's watch. When you hear a rant about the Bidwills, turn the pc off or change the channel because ther's enough ignorance in the world.

Mr. Bidwill?????? If this is you, go to H#ll!!! You are the single biggest reason this team has failed miserably for the past 30 years. Don't let anybody tell you differently.

 

[40yearfan]

first of all, how can the bidwills be cluess about running a football team. this team has been owned by the bidwills for almost a hundred years. they might have picked up on how to run a team. Bill bidwill has been running this team since the 60's. that is a long time. they know how to run a team. lately the people who they have hired who has had success were they have been havn't been successful. that is everyone. i am sure bill bidwill is ready to hand over the team to micheal. that is why micheal came to the team. the cardinals are going to start winning. it is not going to be this season. i am sure it will be with the next coach who takes over. i hope it is cam cameron.

You are wasting your time trying to use reasoning with this bunch. They are always in a lynching mood and will lynch anyone connected with this organization because of the mob frenzy that seems to take over after a loss. Truthfully, it is the same after a win also. Maybe they just like to hang people.

 

[Houdini]

I'm not a big Fassel fan, but I think he had a point in getting rid of some of the dead wood to help turn the organization around. I don't see anything changing until Bidwill lets someone run it like an organization, instead of a country club for his friends and family. From the link below:

"One anecdote relayed by multiple team sources came prior to Green’s hire. The Cards were serious about both Green and Jim Fassel. But Fassel, who was apparently the leading candidate at the time, suggested to Bidwill Sr. some sweeping changes he thought needed to be made in the organization, including dismissing some longtime employees.

It didn’t sit well with Bidwill Sr., who soured on Fassel. Green ended up with the job."

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=79606

 

[az1965]

Signed big names is a mirage that gets fans in a frenzy every offseason. Who cares if we signed Edge when all we signed after him was Brown and Clancy. Yeah they signed a big name, now its time to complete the picture. A big name this coaching staff didnt even want, it was Mike Bs idea.

Also if the Cards truely are not cheap which is debatable and has been gone over many times, then they are truely stupid when it comes to running a football team or a winning football team. They are not football people and it is time they started hiring football poeple and then listen to them.

It is really as simple as this a crappy season of this magnitude does not rest on one single person shoulders, it rest on everyones shoulders which includes the management/ownership (who put the coaches and players on the field), coaches, and players. So any bashing of any of those groups is well within reason.

Well said...

 

[Duckjake]

You are wasting your time trying to use reasoning with this bunch. They are always in a lynching mood and will lynch anyone connected with this organization because of the mob frenzy that seems to take over after a loss. Truthfully, it is the same after a win also. Maybe they just like to hang people.

40 you can't really say that with any certainty because the statistical base is simply too small to draw any meaningful conclusions.