HDDVD or BluRay players... Anyone have one yet?

[dreamcastrocks]

I am this close to buying a Toshiba HD-DVD player.

I have needed an upconverting DVD player for sometime now and haven't purchased one yet.

With news of Smallville, and rumors of Veronica Mars coming to HDDVD, I will probably get one within a month or two.

Anyone have either of these players yet?

 

[Chaplin]

Word of warning:

Don't do it.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Word of warning:

Don't do it.

Can you tell me why?

I already need a good upconverting player. One of the best on the market, the Oppo, which I almost bought is $199. An HD-DVD player can be had for a little over $350.

IMO there is little risk in buying one, considering most in the industry claim that the Toshiba is one of the, if not the best upconverting player on the market.

I am curious to your apprehension.

The only reason why I might wait to get one, would be that I would want to wait for a Toshiba player to have HDMI v1.3.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

I wouldn't do it until the dust starts settling. Seriously.....remember Beta??

 

[Chaplin]

Until this format war is figured out, it is useless to buy one. HD-DVD will probably lose the war, and Blu-Ray is extremely buggy right now. An HD-DVD player for $350 will probably not work correctly (that seems to be the problem with the more expensive ones as well).

Little risk? You mean besides spending hundreds of dollars on a format that might not last? This is the new laserdisc. And to my knowledge, the only release that is actually taking advantage of the format will be M:I III. The rest of the releases are ports of the already-released DVDs with better picture quality.

Software is more expensive, players are MUCH more expensive and unreliable. The software is not much better than regular DVDs, and this war between competing formats isn't going away. The only good thing about the format (assuming your player will work correctly) is that you'll get a better picture than DVD. But are you that desperate for it? DVD already has a pretty good picture, even if you are just using progressive component video.

I'm definitely waiting to see what happens, I'm not going to get caught spending a ton of money and then the format disappears. Besides, the future isn't HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, it's going to be online delivery of Hi-Def content. The next step in the industry isn't HD software, it's the elimination of discs altogether.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I wouldn't do it until the dust starts settling. Seriously.....remember Beta??

Actually, I am a bit young to fully remember Beta.

Here is my reasoning. As mentioned before, I could justify over 50% of the purchase, because I need a good upconverting player.

Second, I will eventually plan on getting a PS3, (once all of the "dust settles" and the prices come back down to normal) I would not be left behind either way, because I should have both formats.

I know that the PS3 BluRay as well as the 360 HD-DVD player will be inferior in quality, so I would rather stay away from them if possible.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Until this format war is figured out, it is useless to buy one. HD-DVD will probably lose the war, and Blu-Ray is extremely buggy right now. An HD-DVD player for $350 will probably not work correctly (that seems to be the problem with the more expensive ones as well).

Why would the $350 player not work correctly? The Toshiba has an ethernet port that is actively being used to upgrade firmware, something most other electronics on the market are not taking advantage of.

Little risk? You mean besides spending hundreds of dollars on a format that might not last? This is the new laserdisc. And to my knowledge, the only release that is actually taking advantage of the format will be M:I III. The rest of the releases are ports of the already-released DVDs with better picture quality.

When considering that I would need to spend at least $200 to get a comparibly equipped upconverting DVD player, I consider another $150 on top of that to be little risk.

Software is more expensive, players are MUCH more expensive and unreliable. The software is not much better than regular DVDs, and this war between competing formats isn't going away. The only good thing about the format (assuming your player will work correctly) is that you'll get a better picture than DVD. But are you that desperate for it? DVD already has a pretty good picture, even if you are just using progressive component video.

True, the software is more expensive, but you usually have to pay for better quality. HD-DVD prices are pretty close, when comparing DVD when it was first released.

I truly need to decide how much I want an upconverting DVD player. I have the audio and video to take advantage of the upconverting player, as well as the new formats.

I'm definitely waiting to see what happens, I'm not going to get caught spending a ton of money and then the format disappears. Besides, the future isn't HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, it's going to be online delivery of Hi-Def content. The next step in the industry isn't HD software, it's the elimination of discs altogether.

I disagree with the online delivery of movies. You could even throw in games into this argument. We are at least 5-10 years away from even beginning to adopt this technology IMO.

Overall, I am not sure if I will buy one. I know it will be at least a month before I decide. There is no way that I would plop down $1000 on a BluRay player. Spending $350 on a HD-DVD player, when half of the cost could be justified in the upconverting player is something that I just may do.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

No way I will buy one, not with more and more movies on HD channels, like HBO, Shotime, HDNET, UHD, PPVHD, etc.

Plus my upconverting DVD players looks pretty good to me.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

No way I will buy one, not with more and more movies on HD channels, like HBO, Shotime, HDNET, UHD, PPVHD, etc.

Plus my upconverting DVD players looks pretty good to me.

I can understand this one for sure. I don't spend the extra $15-$20 a month to get the HBO/Showtime/Stars pack, so I do not get those channels in HD. The inHD channels are great, but they show little movies. The ESPN HD channels are terrible. Discovery is probably the best HD channel that I get.

If I didn't need an upconverting player, this wouldn't even be an option.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

Chandler Mike brings up a great point about HD Channels. They show TONS of movies on there.

TNT HD, UHD, and HDNet Movies all show a ton of movies. HD Net in particular shows some fantastic movies all Saturday long. A couple Saturdays ago they had a Kubrik Triple Header.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Chandler Mike brings up a great point about HD Channels. They show TONS of movies on there.

TNT HD, UHD, and HDNet Movies all show a ton of movies. HD Net in particular shows some fantastic movies all Saturday long. A couple Saturdays ago they had a Kubrik Triple Header.

I agree that he does bring up a good point. TNTHD is probably the worst HD channel in terms of quality.

I have most of the Kubrick movies already...

I am the type of guy that likes to have movies around for multiple viewings. I have at least 600 DVD's, and will probably get to 1000 before I stop.

 

[Chaplin]

Mike does bring up a good point.

But dreamcastrocks, I'll just say this and then I'll leave it to you... I know you aren't taking much stock in what I'm saying, but you should know I am in the industry and read about this format war virtually every day.

Everyone who wants to take advantage of their HD television naturally is thinking about upgrading. I'm just saying that you should stay very cautious. If you're too young to remember Beta, I'm sure you must be old enough to remember laserdisc. I was a big proponent of it (it was generally considered to be the cinephile's format--for high-end movie fans). But in 1997 when DVD was introduced, it changed everything. DVD was a huge upgrade over VHS and Laserdisc (which was still just an analog signal). DVD, however, was digital, and blew everything else out of the water. Does HD-DVD or Blu-Ray blow DVD out of the water? Absolutely not. Like I said, the difference between regular DVD and the hi-def formats is marginal.

I just think that right now, spending money on either format is a waste. You have everything to lose and nothing to gain. If the war ends with both formats virtually destroyed, you're screwed. If one wins and you picked the wrong one (and HD-DVD to me appears to be the format that might lose), then you're screwed. If one wins, however, you'll be double-dipping when the studios start releasing movies that actually take advantage of the format, which all current HD releases do not. (Like I said, M:I III appears to be the first to make the attempt)

And you're wrong about the online delivery--and 5 years is not a long time. It's already being done in other places around the world. DVD has been around for 9 years already, time really flies in this business.

The problem with the new formats is that 75% of the consumer base for DVD will have no need to upgrade. One, they don't care, and two, they don't even know the true differences (and will probably be told countless times about how the format war is like VHS/Beta, which will most definitely turn them off). Also keep in mind, when VHS beat Beta, Beta was the more superior format.

I took a chance in 1997 when I adopted DVD, but the difference in quality (and software prices--remember when VHS tapes were $80 bucks when they were new releases?) was so huge it was worth the risk. Right now, either new format is NOT worth the risk. I learned my lesson from laserdisc.

 

[Chaplin]

I agree that he does bring up a good point. TNTHD is probably the worst HD channel in terms of quality.

I have most of the Kubrick movies already...

I am the type of guy that likes to have movies around for multiple viewings. I have at least 600 DVD's, and will probably get to 1000 before I stop.

Good luck with that. I thought that too, when I was at 600. I'm now at 2100 and counting.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Mike does bring up a good point.

But dreamcastrocks, I'll just say this and then I'll leave it to you... I know you aren't taking much stock in what I'm saying, but you should know I am in the industry and read about this format war virtually every day.

Everyone who wants to take advantage of their HD television naturally is thinking about upgrading. I'm just saying that you should stay very cautious. If you're too young to remember Beta, I'm sure you must be old enough to remember laserdisc. I was a big proponent of it (it was generally considered to be the cinephile's format--for high-end movie fans). But in 1997 when DVD was introduced, it changed everything. DVD was a huge upgrade over VHS and Laserdisc (which was still just an analog signal). DVD, however, was digital, and blew everything else out of the water. Does HD-DVD or Blu-Ray blow DVD out of the water? Absolutely not. Like I said, the difference between regular DVD and the hi-def formats is marginal.

I just think that right now, spending money on either format is a waste. You have everything to lose and nothing to gain. If the war ends with both formats virtually destroyed, you're screwed. If one wins and you picked the wrong one (and HD-DVD to me appears to be the format that might lose), then you're screwed. If one wins, however, you'll be double-dipping when the studios start releasing movies that actually take advantage of the format, which all current HD releases do not. (Like I said, M:I III appears to be the first to make the attempt)

And you're wrong about the online delivery--and 5 years is not a long time. It's already being done in other places around the world. DVD has been around for 9 years already, time really flies in this business.

The problem with the new formats is that 75% of the consumer base for DVD will have no need to upgrade. One, they don't care, and two, they don't even know the true differences (and will probably be told countless times about how the format war is like VHS/Beta, which will most definitely turn them off). Also keep in mind, when VHS beat Beta, Beta was the more superior format.

I took a chance in 1997 when I adopted DVD, but the difference in quality (and software prices--remember when VHS tapes were $80 bucks when they were new releases?) was so huge it was worth the risk. Right now, either new format is NOT worth the risk. I learned my lesson from laserdisc.

I hear ya bro. Trust me. Eventhough I do not work directly in the industry, but family members do.

I definitely agree with the "not as big of a quality jump" from DVD to HD, as VHS to DVD. The picture quality is the major "upgrade" at this time. I am more of an audio guy and HDMI 1.3 and the new HD audio formats that are out/will be out shortly are a driving factor in me upgrading as well.

We can disagree about online delivery. I just do not think bandwidth is at adequate speeds to push down Gigs of information to consumers in a timely manner. I think that our bandwidth needs to be tenfold before we will see that happening, and I said 5 years, because that is my rough guess on when we will get a major broadband upgrade.

I respect everyone's opinion's here, and have held off getting a player for a while now, eventhough I have had the money to get one. I will wait until closer to the holiday season before I finally decide to plop down and get a new player.

 

[Chaplin]

Fair enough.

Piece of advice though--if I had to choose one of the formats that will succeed, I'd say Blu-Ray, but only because of the PS3 (which I considered getting strictly because of the Blu-Ray capabilities--but not for $600).

The best thing to do is to find a dual format player that plays both hi-def formats--I believe there is one in development, but it's really buggy. It's by Samsung or Panasonic or something--I don't remember which.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Fair enough.

Piece of advice though--if I had to choose one of the formats that will succeed, I'd say Blu-Ray, but only because of the PS3 (which I considered getting strictly because of the Blu-Ray capabilities--but not for $600).

The best thing to do is to find a dual format player that plays both hi-def formats--I believe there is one in development, but it's really buggy. It's by Samsung or Panasonic or something--I don't remember which.

I can agree with that. Last I heard though, the duel format player was scrapped until at least 4th QTR of 2007. Sony is really pushing hard to not include BluRay in an duel format player.

 

[Chaplin]

I can agree with that. Last I heard though, the duel format player was scrapped until at least 4th QTR of 2007. Sony is really pushing hard to not include BluRay in an duel format player.

Sony is shooting themselves in the foot, but that's par-for-the-course with them. They did the same thing with the PSP.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Sony is shooting themselves in the foot, but that's par-for-the-course with them. They did the same thing with the PSP.

...And Beta.

And the mini disc

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Mike does bring up a good point.

 

[asudevil83]

I agree that he does bring up a good point. TNTHD is probably the worst HD channel in terms of quality.

I have most of the Kubrick movies already...

I am the type of guy that likes to have movies around for multiple viewings. I have at least 600 DVD's, and will probably get to 1000 before I stop.

by quality, do you mean picture quality....because TNTHD isnt really HD in the true sense of the word. its actually 480p, which is barely considered HD, instead of 720p and 1080p

 

[dreamcastrocks]

by quality, do you mean picture quality....because TNTHD isnt really HD in the true sense of the word. its actually 480p, which is barely considered HD, instead of 720p and 1080p

Yes, picture quality. It is a 480 image, that is upconverted to 1080i (as the default resoluton of the Cox HD box), and then upconverted to 1080p as the default res of my TV.

All in all, it is easily the worst HD channel I get. The fact that the Suns playoffs were on TNT this year, made me wanna cringe.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

by quality, do you mean picture quality....because TNTHD isnt really HD in the true sense of the word. its actually 480p, which is barely considered HD, instead of 720p and 1080p

Not all their shows are upconverted I don't think...they do have HD stuff, like NBA games, etc.