Hey Laker fans

[scXfreakX]

Kobe's a machine, it won't be his fault when the Lakers don't win this series just like it wasn't in 2006 and 2007. He's been the best player in the series by a pretty wide margin.

And we expect that. I believe (not sure) that Gentry said there's no way to stop Kobe. He's going to do whatever he wants. Kobe scored at will last night. But, if we can stop Pau and Odom from having big games and take them out of their element, that's how we will win the series. And I'm pretty sure Pau didn't have a stellar game last night.

 

[D-Dogg]

LoL, the Laker fan motto. When they lose, the other team got all the calls. When they win, it is what it is. Because clearly the only way the Lakers could possibly lose is if the officials gave the game to the other team right?

I agree with most everything you said except for that. What did we "get for ourselves" in game 4?

Yes, because I complain about foul calls so often. Oh, wait.

Game 4 was much more physical than Game 3...highly physical actually. Look at the foul and FT disparity. Same disparity in both home games for the Suns, yet they played two VERY different styles. The style of Game 4 on both offense and defense for the Suns (passive outside offense and aggressive defense and doubles) doesn't jive with 12 fouls. You got some really nice home cooking, and to deny that is silly. Truly silly. But it is what it is, Lakers had a shot late and that's what you go on the road hoping to get.

I don't see where the refs are the only way the Lakers can possibly lose, especially when I have been talking about bad D and hot home shooting for the suns being dangerous, pretty much since we went up 2-0.

The ref comment by nashman, to me, was silly. If the shoe were on the other foot, and the Lakers were called for 12 fouls while playing aggressive trapping D, outrebounding and scoring outside the paint, yet had a huge FT advantage there would be Suns fans hopping on the Stern fixes games train.

Personally I think NBA referees are a pile of suck and they get caught in the emotions of the home crowd and lean that way. It happens. You either play though it or you don't, but poor officiating is an NBA constant.

 

[D-Dogg]

What will Lakers' fans do if the following occurs in Game 5:

Suns score 101
Lakers shoot 29 free throws
Lakers out rebound the Suns
Kobe scores 35
Lakers lose the game by 9

Will they then say - we can only win with better offense? Personally, I hope the Suns score 120+ and win. It will be a great game.

Tip my cap and say "good game, good luck in the Finals."

I couldn't see that scenario happen, however.

 

[Chaplin]

Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows that the zone has many different aspects to it, one of which is the reduction of fouls. That's a fact. So crying about free throw discrepancy is stupid. If you're mad about the Suns shooting so many free throws, stop fouling them all the time!! Derek Fisher fouls guys on every single play!

 

[D-Dogg]

Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows that the zone has many different aspects to it, one of which is the reduction of fouls. That's a fact. So crying about free throw discrepancy is stupid. If you're mad about the Suns shooting so many free throws, stop fouling them all the time!! Derek Fisher fouls guys on every single play!

Chap, the reduction of fouls comes from teams settling for jumpers, which the Lakers didn't do as much of. in Game 4. They went into the paint, where the zone and its aggressive doubles actually create more contact.

But that's not the point...note I don't care about the Game 3 disparity because it is realistic as the Suns lived in the paint and the Lakers avoided it. But last night, it was opposite, and the FTs weren't any different. The style of game last night should have resulted in a very even distribution of foul shots/fouls. That wasn't the case. Still doesn't matter because the Lakers couldn't get stops late in the game when they were needed, but you can keep your head in the sand about the FTs and expect it to remain that way in LA.

:maninground:

 

[Chaplin]

Chap, the reduction of fouls comes from teams settling for jumpers, which the Lakers didn't do as much of. in Game 4. They went into the paint, where the zone and its aggressive doubles actually create more contact.

But that's not the point...note I don't care about the Game 3 disparity because it is realistic as the Suns lived in the paint and the Lakers avoided it. But last night, it was opposite, and the FTs weren't any different. The style of game last night should have resulted in a very even distribution of foul shots/fouls. That wasn't the case. Still doesn't matter because the Lakers couldn't get stops late in the game when they were needed, but you can keep your head in the sand about the FTs and expect it to remain that way in LA.

:maninground:

I know you're bitter and angry, but I never said I expect it to remain that way in LA. But put words in my mouth if you want. I could care less.

 

[joshstmarie]

I know alot of lakers fans (not targeting donald) think the FT advantage was unfair but I saw the lakers get about 3 or 4 offensive rebounds/putbacks which translated into 6-8 points that were over the back. Win some lose some I guess.

 

[D-Dogg]

I know you're bitter and angry, but I never said I expect it to remain that way in LA. But put words in my mouth if you want. I could care less.

If you think it is the result of the zone, and that it is a viable FT disparity, then logic would conclude it should remain the same regardless of venue. Do you not agree with that which I am saying to you now?

'Course, if it was a bit of home cooking, the same type of play would yield different FT results on the other team's floor.

And I'm glad you think I'm bitter and angry. Go ahead and put emotions in my head that aren't there. I couldn't care less.

 

[D-Dogg]

I know alot of lakers fans (not targeting donald) think the FT advantage was unfair but I saw the lakers get about 3 or 4 offensive rebounds/putbacks which translated into 6-8 points that were over the back. Win some lose some I guess.

You can pick apart any game with missed calls, ignored illegal picks, etc. Refs generally suck.

I expect disparities like Game 3 had when Amare was beasting in the middle, but Game 4 was not the same type of game - it is what it is and happens all the time to every team. Playing through it is the only option, because "tenured" refs aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Chaplin]

If you think it is the result of the zone, and that it is a viable FT disparity, then logic would conclude it should remain the same regardless of venue. Do you not agree with that which I am saying to you now?

'Course, if it was a bit of home cooking, the same type of play would yield different FT results on the other team's floor.

And I'm glad you think I'm bitter and angry. Go ahead and put emotions in my head that aren't there. I couldn't care less.

I'm not sure the zone will be as effective in LA because the Lakers almost certainly will shoot better.

 

[justAndy]

Offense, defense, fouls, FT disparities, home cookin'.... whatever
Can you imagine the volcano/meltdown Kobe would have if he loses his 3rd series in a row against the Suns?
It would be precious.

 

[nashman]

When the Lakers are not aggressive and shooting a bunch of jumpers of course there is going to be a FT disparity! Geesh the Lakers and their fans act like they were going to shoot 58% the entire series, honestly they have to know it wasn't going to happen. So cry all you want about foul disparity the aggressor gets the calls like they always do. And if we did get a little edge from the HC....GOOD its about freaking time LA has been cashing in on that for DECADES!

 

[SunsTzu]

People can say defense wins championships all they want but if you want to beat the Suns 4 times in 7 games you're going to need to do it offensively. It is how the Spurs were always able to beat the Suns despite giving up 100+ppg on 50% shooting.

 

[ndjmc]

Vujacic

anyone else hearing that Sasha Vujacic is going to play over Artest?

 

[Bufalay]

anyone else hearing that Sasha Vujacic is going to play over Artest?

Good. They were also thinking about bringing Kwame back to replace Gasol.

 

[ndjmc]

Good. They were also thinking about bringing Kwame back to replace Gasol.

sweet

 

[D-Dogg]

When the Lakers are not aggressive and shooting a bunch of jumpers of course there is going to be a FT disparity! Geesh the Lakers and their fans act like they were going to shoot 58% the entire series, honestly they have to know it wasn't going to happen. So cry all you want about foul disparity the aggressor gets the calls like they always do. And if we did get a little edge from the HC....GOOD its about freaking time LA has been cashing in on that for DECADES!

Perhaps you didn't read my post. Game 3 made sense...game 4 did not. In game 4, LA was the aggressor on offense compared to PHX, and PHX was aggressive on defense. That does NOT equal the FT disparity Game 4 had. That was HC edge...nothing wrong with it but don't whine about it when it happens in reverse in LA.

 

[nashman]

Donald your clearly looking through Laker colored glasses.....Kobe was the only agressive Laker on the floor and he got his! The rest of your team was not the aggressor not sure what the hell game you were watching. We cleaned up on the glass and TO's were about even but the rebound disparity and second chance points put us over the top. Not sure how anyone can be complaining about officials in this game!

 

[jibikao]

No. Flat out, no. I've been seriously pissed about the Lakers D this series in EVERY game. This kind of play is entertaining, but it doesn't fly.

You won because our defense couldn't get stops at the end of the game. We left wide open shooters. Look at Kobe's quotes after the game...he isn't upset about scoring a bunch of points. He's pissed that you guys scored at will.

Defense wins championships. No doubt.

People also said Spurs' defense was so good that Suns would get destroyed. Lakers has GOOD defense. It just looks "average" or "bad" in your opinion when Suns start scoring from every angle. Suns played scared the first two games on your home court.

Spurs fans said the exact same thing you are saying. They thought their defense sucked hard. If you ask Duncan/Manu, they said it the best in the interviews that "they didn't know what else they can do" or "they just make great shots".


Lakers' defense is good or else Nash/Amare combo would have scored over 30pt every game.

I think when people say "Defense", I think they mean "Effort". Yes, you can put more efforts but when shooters are "hot", there's little you can do especially Suns has 4-5 shooters on the court at any given time. The problem of course is when we don't make jumpers, and we have to find some ways to score. This year's Suns is more than just a jump shooting team.

 

[jibikao]

People can say defense wins championships all they want but if you want to beat the Suns 4 times in 7 games you're going to need to do it offensively. It is how the Spurs were always able to beat the Suns despite giving up 100+ppg on 50% shooting.

Yup. Spurs' biggest problem against us is they didn't have people like Robert Horry or Steve Karr to close out the games for them.

I think defense is very important especially grabbing defensive rebounds to avoid easy buckets. Effort is more important. If there is a ball on the floor, who is going to dive to grab it? The aggressor!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Perhaps you didn't read my post. Game 3 made sense...game 4 did not. In game 4, LA was the aggressor on offense compared to PHX, and PHX was aggressive on defense. That does NOT equal the FT disparity Game 4 had. That was HC edge...nothing wrong with it but don't whine about it when it happens in reverse in LA.

ridiculous. The Lakers got goaded into shooting outside jumper after outside jumper and the only they didn't break their previous game record for 3s in a game was because they shot (and hit) about 5 2s with their feet right on the line in the first half. All my Laker friends kept yelling all game was "WTF aren't we getting the ball into Pau?" And "STOP SHOOTING OUTSIDE JUMPERS!"

Meanwhile, we had Amare attacking the rim, along with Dragic penetrating at will and crushed you on the offensive boards where we'd go back up and get fouled which is what got us to the FT.

The above holds no water whatsoever. Kobe was the only one who was aggressive and he was hoisting (and draining) 3s like there was no tomorrow... but again, shooting 3s doesn't get you to the line.

A Laker fan Playing the refs card... that's hilarious.

 

[D-Dogg]

Donald your clearly looking through Laker colored glasses.....Kobe was the only agressive Laker on the floor and he got his! The rest of your team was not the aggressor not sure what the hell game you were watching. We cleaned up on the glass and TO's were about even but the rebound disparity and second chance points put us over the top. Not sure how anyone can be complaining about officials in this game!

I rarely beef on the refs, I assume them to suck for the most part. I have NO issues with Game 3. Game 4 was tilted, no two ways about it. I think it's funny that several who love to moan about the refs will defend this game, yet I've even seen Suns fans here who say, yep..we got the benefit of the calls and it feels good.

We scored more in the paint than you in this game, took it to the hole more, shot fewer J's than last time, and your team stayed out of the paint and killed with the three ball, yet there was no difference in the foul calls. Deny it all you want, but you KNOW you'd be bent out of shape if it were the other way around.

Still, it ain't the refs...it's the Lakers D. Despite a crappy night of officials and poor play from the non-Kobes, the Lakers were within striking distance but simply could not get stops at all.

 

[D-Dogg]

ridiculous. The Lakers got goaded into shooting outside jumper after outside jumper and the only they didn't break their previous game record for 3s in a game was because they shot (and hit) about 5 2s with their feet right on the line in the first half. All my Laker friends kept yelling all game was "WTF aren't we getting the ball into Pau?" And "STOP SHOOTING OUTSIDE JUMPERS!"

Meanwhile, we had Amare attacking the rim, along with Dragic penetrating at will and crushed you on the offensive boards where we'd go back up and get fouled which is what got us to the FT.

The above holds no water whatsoever. Kobe was the only one who was aggressive and he was hoisting (and draining) 3s like there was no tomorrow... but again, shooting 3s doesn't get you to the line.

A Laker fan Playing the refs card... that's hilarious.

Other than Dragic, your team didn't go to the rim, Cheese. And Dragic kicks out on penetration, he doesn't attack the rim. Amare was a jumpshooter all night. He attacked the rim? No, that was Sunday. Pau stopped going to the rim early in the game after getting no-call after no-call, turned him into a jumpshooter later, and then a body in the 4th. That was the BIGGEST effect of the calls going your way...Pau girlied up and stopped going to the rim when he realized he simply wouldn't get a call. Artest went to the rack several times. Brown penetrated. Kobe started hoisting (and hitting) threes when the game started getting out of control, and then the rest of the wild threes came late from Jordan, Lamar and Artest.

Please explain why, with all your offensive boards, the Lakers who weren't aggressive had a 42-32 edge in points in the paint. And no, it wasn't fouls on putbacks.

A Suns fan who ignores refs when their calls break their way...predictable.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I rarely beef on the refs, I assume them to suck for the most part. I have NO issues with Game 3. Game 4 was tilted, no two ways about it. I think it's funny that several who love to moan about the refs will defend this game, yet I've even seen Suns fans here who say, yep..we got the benefit of the calls and it feels good.

We scored more in the paint than you in this game, took it to the hole more, shot fewer J's than last time, and your team stayed out of the paint and killed with the three ball, yet there was no difference in the foul calls. Deny it all you want, but you KNOW you'd be bent out of shape if it were the other way around.

Still, it ain't the refs...it's the Lakers D. Despite a crappy night of officials and poor play from the non-Kobes, the Lakers were within striking distance but simply could not get stops at all.

again, a complete joke. And another reason the 32 - 13 FT disparity looks lopsided is because the Lakers intentionally fouled the last 90 seconds of the game putting us to the line 6-8 times in the last minute.

Sorry, y'all shot jumpers, stupid foot on the line jumpers and Pau barely even touched the ball and when he did, he looked petrified.

All the announcers talked about during and after the game was how Kobe had to carry them because no one else was being aggressive and all Kobe was doing was burying jumpers at a scary pace.

But keep blaming the refs, true colors shining through...

 

[D-Dogg]

again, a complete joke. And another reason the 32 - 13 FT disparity looks lopsided is because the Lakers intentionally fouled the last 90 seconds of the game putting us to the line 6-8 times in the last minute.

Sorry, y'all shot jumpers, stupid foot on the line jumpers and Pau barely even touched the ball and when he did, he looked petrified.

All the announcers talked about during and after the game was how Kobe had to carry them because no one else was being aggressive and all Kobe was doing was burying jumpers at a scary pace.

But keep blaming the refs, true colors shining through...

I think I already said it isn't the refs fault...it is your shooting and the Lakers D, like I've said a bajillion times - from after game 2. However, you had 12 fouls, as a team, while aggressively doubling in your zone and against a team that attacked early. That's ridiculous. Pau was probably fouled 12 times alone, and it definitely affected him. That's PAU'S fault, not the refs'. But don't act like your team's 12 fouls were in any way a realistic measure. That's funny man. Hilarious. The non-calls took the big out of the game mentally, and once he had a clear path to the rim and jacked up a brick instead. That and the transparent targeting of Fish (robin banging him as he got up from the ground, Amare's back "pick" leaning over on him and ending with a push off, etc) were blatant. But if the refs give the leeway, you have to take it...the Suns took advantage, to their credit.

And now you base your arguments on announcers? Marv? Oh, wow. Precious.