Hill, why hasn't anyone gone after him?

[Jetstream Green]

I though he was a UFA and while the guy lacks speed, he makes up for it with physical play and smarts. I would like someone to ask Hill what his mindset is right now about coming back to the Cards? Has there been any interviews ect...?

 

[Shane]

He visited the Seahawks. Dont know much more than that!

 

[Jetstream Green]

If they are not offering a lot more money,

I wouldn't want to sign with the Hawks over the Cards. The Cards just look better IF you don't look at our CB situation which really even isn't a situation because all we have is ONE that has seen a lot of playing time!!!!!!?????!!!!!!

 

[BACH]

All the high-profile players gets signed within the first two weeks, but players like Hill have to wait. It's just part of the game for the mid-level FAs. These guys are in competition with day one draft choices for solid starting or key back-up roles, so I think all teams like evaluate all their options.

Just to illustate my point here's the number of visits for a couple of players in the mid-level FA group (players picked from random memory):

CB Hill: 1 - Parttime starter for the Cards
CB Andre Dyson: 1 - Starter for the Titans
CB Nick Harper: 0 - Starter for the Colts
MLB Rob Morris: 0 - Starter for the Colts
LB Orlando Huff: 1 - Parttime starter for the Seahawks
C Cris Gray: 0 - Starter for the Seahawks

 

[ThunderCard]

Hill is just not worth 2.5 million a year for a decent nickle corner. That is the main reason I think he has not had any offers yet. If you think about it for another million we could probably have Hartwell.

With all the good corners in the draft it is looking like we will be going with some rookie corners. I hate to start off the year with some rookie corners, however I can easily see why Green doesn't want to pony up the money for a high priced corner.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Hill is just not worth 2.5 million a year for a decent nickle corner. That is the main reason I think he has not had any offers yet. If you think about it for another million we could probably have Hartwell.

With all the good corners in the draft it is looking like we will be going with some rookie corners. I hate to start off the year with some rookie corners, however I can easily see why Green doesn't want to pony up the money for a high priced corner.

What Green thinks Hill is worth is only relevant to agreement with Graves and Bidwill the younger. It's their job to manage and approve the use of money under the CAP. It's Green job to indicate his wants and needs for the club.

That said: I think the 1.5m number, thats been mentioned, is probably reasonable... and if Hill waits too long it won't be on the table because the Cards will spend money to meet other needs.

 

[JeffGollin]

Job description for a starting corner in the NFL includes being able to cover wide receivers.

When you run a 4.6 or slower and the other dude runs a 4.45 - 4.50, you've got a problem, son.

Hill does a great job of using his brains and instincts to compensate for some of that lack of speed, but apparently not enough to get opposing GM's to jump up and do a dance.

 

[ajcardfan]

I'm sure GMs all around the league have watched game tape on Hill. And, it can be pretty ugly. Especially when teams know he's starting and game plan to go after him.

 

[jerryp]

When you run a 4.6 or slower and the other dude runs a 4.45 - 4.50, you've got a problem, son.

Maybe in football video games. It's not that big a deal in real football where there are countless factors that the forty yard dash doesn't account for at work on every pass.

 

[Scott MS]

There are still over 200 free agents available out there. Guys like Harper of the Colts, Dyson of the Titans are probably attracting more attention than Hill. Hill would probably be veiwed as a backup and his price is too high. After all, he is a backup with the Cards!!

 

[john h]

Hill is just not worth 2.5 million a year for a decent nickle corner. That is the main reason I think he has not had any offers yet. If you think about it for another million we could probably have Hartwell.

With all the good corners in the draft it is looking like we will be going with some rookie corners. I hate to start off the year with some rookie corners, however I can easily see why Green doesn't want to pony up the money for a high priced corner.

A guys value very much depends on a teams needs. In our case it very well could mean he is worth that kind of money in lieu of starting a rookie. If we are not just in a rebuilding mode and truly hope to make the playoffs and have no other CB to sign then management may decide he is worth money in the range he is seeking. For many teams he may not be worth one mil.

 

[JeffGollin]

Maybe in football video games. It's not that big a deal in real football where there are countless factors that the forty yard dash doesn't account for at work on every pass.
When you watch Hill on film, he's late to the ball too often and can get beat deep. I wonder why. (Maybe it's because all the smarts and instincts a guy has can only take him so far).

Just because some guy on NFL Network said we shouldn't overemphasize the forty time within the context of a lot of other things doesn't mean that you can discount it entirely.

Otherwise, by that logic, a CB who runs a 5.2 could be really good because he's very smart and does other things well.

Numbers are symbols for what takes place in real life. Hill is a step slow (despite his brains, instincts and intangibles). The forty time a short-hand way of explaining why.

 

[john h]

Maybe in football video games. It's not that big a deal in real football where there are countless factors that the forty yard dash doesn't account for at work on every pass.

You have the right. CB requires experience and some smarts that override pure speed. Yes you would like big time speed but knowing player tendancies, reading offenses, anticipation, quickness, vision, and experience all are very important in a CB. Zone defenses sometimes cover up for a lack of speed. The fastest players as a group in the NFL are the wide receivers but the greatest receivers are not necessarily the fastest. You do not need a fast CB to cover our receivers. You probably need a big CB to cover our guys. At the moment we are in big time need of an experienced CB(s).

 

[jerryp]

When you watch Hill on film, he's late to the ball too often and can get beat deep. I wonder why. (Maybe it's because all the smarts and instincts a guy has can only take him so far).

It's not his speed. You're totally overestimating how big a difference 4.45 and 4.6 40's are. Line them up next to each other and have 'em race. When the 4.45 is crossing the line, the 4.6 will be a whole 4 feet behind him. That's a foot of separation per 10 yards. So when you watch Hill, and you're wondering why he's five yards behind the guy, you think it's not because his coverage skills are lacking, but because of a lack of speed? As in, if he were just faster he wouldn't be five yards behind him? Listen man, it's real simple, the slight difference in speed cannot physically account for the 5 yard separation on a 40 yard pass. The separation is from the WR pulling some move and faking Hill out of his jock. Do the math is you don't believe me.

Otherwise, by that logic, a CB who runs a 5.2 could be really good because he's very smart and does other things well.

That's a response I expect on this forum, just not from you. You know very well my point is that functionally, .15 seconds is nothing. Not that speed is meaningless and a difference of .75 is ok.

Numbers are symbols for what takes place in real life. Hill is a step slow (despite his brains, instincts and intangibles). The forty time a short-hand way of explaining why.

No. Totally wrong. Hill lacks the brains, intangibles, instincts whatever. It's the lack of those skills that's letting them get wide open. If you bumped up his speed it would let him recover better but he'd still get torched because it's the coverage skills that lead to most of the separation.

Also, 40 time being a short-hand way of EXPLAINING anything is a joke. A 40 time tells you exactly how fast they can run 40 yards straight ahead in no pads with no adjusting for passes (or even looking up for them for that matter). It does not show acceleration, it doesn't show reaction time, it doesn't not show coverage skill and AGAIN, most separation is not speed, it's reactions in coverage so it most certainly DOES NOT EXPLAIN WHY HILL FAILS IN COVERAGE.

I'm not even going to get into how basic information, like bench reps isn't even consistent across publications let alone 40 times that vary so wildly that one player you may think ran a 40 .1 seconds faster than another actually ran it .1 seconds slower.

 

[Savage58]

I though he was a UFA and while the guy lacks speed, he makes up for it with physical play and smarts. I would like someone to ask Hill what his mindset is right now about coming back to the Cards? Has there been any interviews ect...?

Bottomline... He's just not that good. We're the only team in the league who he would start for, which is sad. His skills are only mediocre as a nickel back, not someone to throw a lengthy or lucrative contract by any means.

I'd really like to see us go after Dyson and draft Rolle or Jones, that's just what I'd prescribe for our secondary.

 

[seesred]

You all remember Kwami Lassiter. Did the same thing. We were going to give him a fair based on talent level contract. He said no and ended up a paying the price and played for at the time a real poor San Diego team. It happens. I hope he wakes up and signs with us for two reasons. He is a capable back up/part time starter corner and he knows our system. Sometimes we think of ourselves differently then most people we know think of us. I know I used to think everyone liked me only to find out many didn't.

GBR
40

In Green we trust

 

[Zeno]

Bottomline... He's just not that good. We're the only team in the league who he would start for, which is sad. His skills are only mediocre as a nickel back, not someone to throw a lengthy or lucrative contract by any means.

I agree with this 100%. I've been saying it all along too, especially when someone had the nerve last offseason to compare his numbers to Champ Bailey, that was a head scratcher.

 

[Shane]

I agree with this 100%. I've been saying it all along too, especially when someone had the nerve last offseason to compare his numbers to Champ Bailey, that was a head scratcher.

I dunno. Champ Bailey was constantly being burned last year so he isnt the CB he is madeout to be IMO. Of course Hill isnt him but he has his strong points.

The only knock with Hill is his speed. He has a nose for the ball and makes big plays. He is an adequate NB and would be worth signing back.

 

[BACH]

I dunno. Champ Bailey was constantly being burned last year so he isnt the CB he is madeout to be IMO. Of course Hill isnt him but he has his strong points.

The only knock with Hill is his speed. He has a nose for the ball and makes big plays. He is an adequate NB and would be worth signing back.

Reports said that he was offered $1.5M/year by the Cards, who would like him back as NB. Hill, however, wants around $2.5M/year. I think he'll eventually lower his demands and sign with us (like Hartwell).