How to make the playoffs fair? How to balance the East and West?

[arthurracoon]

In another thread, CHEESEBEEF made a good point:

Payton and Kobe in the backcourt - interesting - IF Shaq comes back healthy and determined this year the Lakes are gonna be scary - can you imagine what the west will look like if LA gets Payton and Malone, The Spurs get either Kidd or Jermaine O'Neal, AND the Mavs get Alonzo? Not to mention Sac-towns already formidable squad as is and our up and comers. Jesus, at that point the East should just be naished from basketball.

What are the playoffs going to be like? Will the west #8 seed be able to beat the East's #1?

How do they make the playoffs fair?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by arthurracoon
In another thread, CHEESEBEEF made a good point:



What are the playoffs going to be like? Will the west #8 seed be able to beat the East's #1?

How do they make the playoffs fair?

I think this is very serious--to Stern and the NBA, this has got to become a very real and very serious problem. Everyone is talking about how the league is now a "me" league--this just makes it worse.

It's going to be pretty excruciating watching (or not watching) the East next year.

 

[elindholm]

I think it would be neat if they seeded all 16 teams in one bracket. Even so, it wouldn't be fair, since W-L records are inflated in the East compared to the West, but it would be closer. I think it would be fun for the Suns to play, oh, the Celtics in the first round of the playoffs.

 

[Yuma]

You guys are too young to remember the Celtics dominating for over a decade! Wilt jumped in there one year with Philly dominating everyone. The talk then was how weak the West was in comparasin to the East. These things have a way of evening out over time.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by Yuma
You guys are too young to remember the Celtics dominating for over a decade! Wilt jumped in there one year with Philly dominating everyone. The talk then was how weak the West was in comparasin to the East. These things have a way of evening out over time.

I agree the East's top teams had an advantage over the Top teams in the West then, but no side has ever been from top to bottom better than the other. IMO the 8th seed of the West could beat the 1st seed in the East currently and if other All-Stars come to the West it will be even worse. No way the Bucks could ever beat the Lakers back then.

 

[Chaplin]

I think they should even out the number of times teams play each other. Right now we play teams in our division 4 times and teams in the East twice. Why not try to balance it out better and end up doing a 16-team tournament?

It would be much more exciting and I agree with Eric, it'd be cool to face the Celtics or even the Nets in the first round. I think that would effectively double ratings. Imagine if Detroit met the Lakers in the first round instead of the Lakers meeting Minnesota or Utah--wouldn't that draw higher ratings--in the East and the West?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SweetD
I agree the East's top teams had an advantage over the Top teams in the West then, but no side has ever been from top to bottom better than the other. IMO the 8th seed of the West could beat the 1st seed in the East currently and if other All-Stars come to the West it will be even worse. No way the Bucks could ever beat the Lakers back then.

The question is: WHY is the West so much better? I guess part of that has to come from owners like Mark Cuban and Paul Allen who spent small fortunes on their teams with no concern for salary cap and luxury tax.

 

[elindholm]

Just to expand on this idea, last season's playoff seedings would have been something like this:

(1) San Antonio - (16) Orlando
(2) Sacramento - (15) Milwaukee
(3) Dallas - (14) Phoenix
(4) Minnesota - (13) Boston
(5) Detroit - (12) Utah
(6) L.A. Lakers - (11) New Orleans
(7) Portland - (10) Philadelphia
(8) New Jersey - (9) Indiana

For W-L ties between teams in different conferences, I didn't feel like looking up the head-to-head, so I just made up a tiebreaker of better in-conference record. Of course this means that the team from the East always won the tiebreak, because their conference is easier, hence their in-conference record is better. So this is just an approximate thing.

Second-round matchups would be even better, if all of the favorites won:

(1) San Antonio - (8) New Jersey
(2) Sacramento - (7) Portland
(3) Dallas - (6) L.A. Lakers
(4) Minnesota - (5) Detroit

And so on.

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by elindholm
Just to expand on this idea, last season's playoff seedings would have been something like this:

(1) San Antonio - (16) Orlando
(2) Sacramento - (15) Milwaukee
(3) Dallas - (14) Phoenix
(4) Minnesota - (13) Boston
(5) Detroit - (12) Utah
(6) L.A. Lakers - (11) New Orleans
(7) Portland - (10) Philadelphia
(8) New Jersey - (9) Indiana

For W-L ties between teams in different conferences, I didn't feel like looking up the head-to-head, so I just made up a tiebreaker of better in-conference record. Of course this means that the team from the East always won the tiebreak, because their conference is easier, hence their in-conference record is better. So this is just an approximate thing.

Second-round matchups would be even better, if all of the favorites won:

(1) San Antonio - (8) New Jersey
(2) Sacramento - (7) Portland
(3) Dallas - (6) L.A. Lakers
(4) Minnesota - (5) Detroit

And so on.

And thus you have the #1 and #2 in the finals instead of the #1 and #8 or the #1 and #5

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by arthurracoon
And thus you have the #1 and #2 in the finals instead of the #1 and #8 or the #1 and #5

Doesn't that make more sense?

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Doesn't that make more sense?

Makes TOO much sense - but I like it!

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Doesn't that make more sense?

No becouse the TV ratings would suck! Just like We as D-Back Fans(West Coast) don't want to watch a Yanks vs Mets game.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SweetD
No becouse the TV ratings would suck! Just like We as D-Back Fans(West Coast) don't want to watch a Yanks vs Mets game.

Um, are you aware that the ratings were absolutely horrible for the Finals THIS year? Reruns of Saved by the Bell get more viewers than the NBA Finals right now.

Ratings across the board, IMO, would go up. True, if it were Sacramento vs. the Lakers, then the Finals wouldn't draw East Coast, but they would make up for it in the earlier rounds. And besides, Sacramento and the Lakers would be two of the best if not the two best teams in the NBA. With the Yankees/Mets, you have a really good team and a crap team. No comparison. I don't want to watch Yankess/Mets not because of the East Coast thing, but because the game would probably suck anyway.

 

[elindholm]

Reruns of Saved by the Bell get more viewers than the NBA Finals right now.

lol

 

[WizardOfAz]

Re: Re: How to make the playoffs fair? How to balance the East and West?

Originally posted by Chaplin
I think this is very serious--to Stern and the NBA, this has got to become a very real and very serious problem.

He is much more concerned about making sure the top TV markets are represented in the playoffs. Keep LA up there, get the Knicks and the Bulls back in there. That's really what Stern is most concerned about.

 

[Joe Mama]

First, it looks like Jermaine O'Neal is going to stay in Indiana. Frankly I can't believe they are going to give him a contract worth $120 million over seven years. I like him, but I don't think he will ever be a top-tier NBA player. In fact I'll go as far as to say that Amare Stoudemire and maybe even Nene Hilario will be better than him by the end of next season.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

In fact I'll go as far as to say that Amare Stoudemire and maybe even Nene Hilario will be better than him by the end of next season.

Joe Mama, I respect you and your opinions a lot, but you're crazy.

O'Neal is already the dominant big man in the East, he's getting better every year, and he's only 24. I know that the East is weaker, but no way would Stoudemire or Hilario come close to 21 and 10 next season, even against weaker opposition.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by elindholm
In fact I'll go as far as to say that Amare Stoudemire and maybe even Nene Hilario will be better than him by the end of next season.

Joe Mama, I respect you and your opinions a lot, but you're crazy.

O'Neal is already the dominant big man in the East, he's getting better every year, and he's only 24. I know that the East is weaker, but no way would Stoudemire or Hilario come close to 21 and 10 next season, even against weaker opposition.

OK, I was outside before I wrote that, and the heat may have gotten to me. I still don't think he's worth an average salary of $17 million, and I don't think he'll be worth that much in five years either. I've been known to be wrong about these things, but I don't think he'll ever be a superstar.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
OK, I was outside before I wrote that, and the heat may have gotten to me. I still don't think he's worth an average salary of $17 million, and I don't think he'll be worth that much in five years either. I've been known to be wrong about these things, but I don't think he'll ever be a superstar.

Joe Mama

He's a superstar in the East... what does THAT tell you?

 

[elindholm]

He's a superstar in the East

So is Tracy McGrady.

 

[3rdside]

How do they make the playoffs fair?

Sorry to chime in so late but aren't they expanding the league to five conferences? I can't remember where i read this but it appeared that it was a most likely outcome in 2005 or 2006.

If they did, it would go a long way to solving some of the problems the league has at the moment - a 'swinging' fifth conference would no doubt even up the playoffs a bit more.

I thought this was common knowledge; I'm also thinking I'm wrong here...Has anyone else heard of this idea?

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by ...tTs*...
Has anyone else heard of this idea?

Maybe. Something like that.

 

[fordronken]

I believe they were just going to add a sixth division once Charlotte comes in, and then move New Orleans to the western conference. 30 teams, 6 equal divisions(equal of course in the amount of teams, not talent).

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Chaplin
The question is: WHY is the West so much better? I guess part of that has to come from owners like Mark Cuban and Paul Allen who spent small fortunes on their teams with no concern for salary cap and luxury tax.

Im just getting into this thread, but I thought I would express my view on this.

You are right, part of it does come from owners willing to spend more money. But NY spends the same way Portland does.

A couple reasons I think it has become this way:

First off, the basketball minds in the west are currently as a whole, much better than those running the teams in the east. You can look at the drafts and notice it right away.

The west teams took the time to rebuild. The teams got young players, and kept them together for a long time. The chemestry in Sac and Dallas has as much to do with their standings as does the talent. The east teams seem to either want to add a quick fix with a vet FA, or consistantly make mind boggling rebuilding moves. (Chicago, as Cleavland (pre Lebron))

The western cities seem to be a brighter spot than those in the east. Players often tlak about wanting to be in the warmth. Other than Miami, NY and Orlando what cities in the east really attract players based on location?

Once the west started to dominate, more players became attracted to the conference because of it superiority. Players want to make a name for themselves and win a ring. Rings come from the west, and you would be playing in "The real part of the NBA" where your accomplishments will praised instead of dismissed becasue "yah, but they did that in the east"


For everyone that claims it will switch back in time, I think it will take at least another decade for it to even start to switch. It isn' like the top west teams are getting old. Dallas and Sac are still a good 4 or 5 years with their cores away from needed a big youth injection. LA will always be able to attract players, and they have a 24 year old top 3 talent. Houston and Phoenix are on their way up. Denver not far behind. SA is not going anywhere for a long long time. Minny appears to solidifying their team with KG at the helm.

Anyways, it is getting very bad, and if the summer goes as most think it will, I believe Stern will seriously start thinking of a complete restructure.