Hunter's market value too high?

[tobiazz]

Hoopsworld article

Steven Hunter: Steven Hunter seems to be getting the calls, his agent says at least 10 teams called about Steven, but that his first interest would be returning to Phoenix, but they are seeking much more than the $750,000 Hunter was making. It’s believed at least one team offered Steven $3 million.

If a team offered him $3 million, he would probably be getting some minutes there, so I don't see why he would want to stay here.

Edit: I assume the $3 million offer rumor did not come from the agent because, who would believe him?

 

[WizardOfAz]

Hope he likes it in New Jersey!

 

[Chaz]

I just hope Hunter realizes there is more to making a good career than taking the most money. He has developed quite a bit this past year. The Suns picked him up after he was waived. You can't be sure what playing time and coaching you will get where ever you are going.

Backing up Amare Stoudemire is not a bad spot for Hunter right now.

 

[Joe Mama]

That may be true, but I would take anything from HoopsWorld with about a 10 pound bag of salt.

Joe Mama

 

[F-Dog]

I just hope Hunter realizes there is more to making a good career than taking the most money. He has developed quite a bit this past year. The Suns picked him up after he was waived. You can't be sure what playing time and coaching you will get where ever you are going.

Hunter hasn't made enough money to turn his nose up at a measly million dollars a year; he came to Phoenix for the minimum for the express purpose of showcasing himself for a big contract. Plus, how can Hunter be sure he'll get playing time if he re-signs in Phoenix for small change? (Jake Voskuhl?)

There are plenty of centers in the league who've made a gigantic pile of money by showing promise and/or playing well for one season. If I were advising Hunter, I would tell him to be one of those players if he possibly could. I don't think he has the talent to guarantee that he'll have another year like last year, much less build and improve himself into an established contributor.

 

[George O'Brien]

NJ is expected to use their entire MLE on SAR or Marshall, although they are talking a split deal to get Dooling.

More likely would be Atlanta which really does need a center and certainly has some guys who can run. No PG, so they won't actually have the ball when running, but they will be able run.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Who is going to give their MLE or even most of it to Hunter?

Most of the teams wanting to spend their MLE are going after players like SAR and Donyell Marshall?

If Hunter wants more, he's going to end up with a team like Atlanta, New Olreans, or Charlotte.

I think there is still a good chance we could get him with the LLE. If not, there will someone else, or even an undrafted player (Tischer?) to fill his role.

 

[George O'Brien]

Who is going to give their MLE or even most of it to Hunter?

Most of the teams wanting to spend their MLE are going after players like SAR and Donyell Marshall?

If Hunter wants more, he's going to end up with a team like Atlanta, New Olreans, or Charlotte.

I think there is still a good chance we could get him with the LLE. If not, there will someone else, or even an undrafted player (Tischer?) to fill his role.

In another thread I suggest Traylor might be a good pickup for the LLE and last year the Suns showed real interest in him. (They lacked the cap space to do anything). Tischer sounds like a nice project pickup who has the physical talent ot become a player who would make sense in the development league. On the other hand, Traylor is the kind of physical guy I'd like to have for the conference finals.

 

[elindholm]

NJ is expected to use their entire MLE on SAR or Marshall, although they are talking a split deal to get Dooling.

Someone posted here a few days ago that New Jersey has a trade exception from the Kittles trade. I hadn't thought of that, but it seems correct. The exception would be the amount of Kittles's salary last year, since the Nets got only a second-round draft pick in return. If that's true, they can offer Abdur-Rahim (or Marshall) the full amount of the exception, by having the player do a sign-and-trade in a similar deal.

I suppose the next question is whether New Jersey feels like spending that kind of money when they already have Kidd, Carter, and Jefferson on big deals.

 

[Chaz]

Hunter hasn't made enough money to turn his nose up at a measly million dollars a year; he came to Phoenix for the minimum for the express purpose of showcasing himself for a big contract. Plus, how can Hunter be sure he'll get playing time if he re-signs in Phoenix for small change? (Jake Voskuhl?)

There are plenty of centers in the league who've made a gigantic pile of money by showing promise and/or playing well for one season. If I were advising Hunter, I would tell him to be one of those players if he possibly could. I don't think he has the talent to guarantee that he'll have another year like last year, much less build and improve himself into an established contributor.

So if you were advising Hunter you tell him he has no talent and he should grab the money while everyone is fooled?
I don't understand why you aren't working as an agent.



Players don't come off a year like Hunter just had and make a ton of money. If nobody offers him a long term deal then he will probably go to what ever is the best situation to improve and play. Big contract means a long term contract. Who is going to offer him that 1 year after he came off waivers?

I don't believe Hunter thinks he doesn't have talent and can't play or that any of his advisors should or will be telling him that.

 

[devilalum]

That may be true, but I would take anything from HoopsWorld with about a 10 pound bag of salt.

Joe Mama

Does this mean I should or should not take them seriously?

 

[Joe Mama]

Does this mean I should or should not take them seriously?

be skeptical of anything you read there. Most of the time they have no more inside information than we do, and they are frequently lay off on their own analysis.

At this point I don't think it's very fair to criticize or question Hunter at all for going after the money. There's a huge difference in what you can do with a $10 million contract as opposed to a $3-6 million deal.

Joe Mama

 

[Errntknght]

I agree Joe. For someone like Hunter the money is really the money. He could well never make over ten million from his whole career. For someone like Amare the money is more symbolic - by ordinary standards he's already a rich man for life, if he's not throwing it away. He'd be insulted if we asked him to play for a mere 8 million per annum and we'd all understand that perfectly well - and yet the difference between 8 and 12 million per year is essentially nothing in terms of what it means to one's life.

Heres one way to see what is called the 'utility' of money - how we value it as a means to the ends we desire in our lives. Suppose you had an offer where you had to choose between 8 million outright or a 90% chance of getting 12 million and a 10% chance of getting nothing. Anyone but a very rich person would choose the certain 8 million without giving it serious thought even though the expected or average outcome is .9 X 12 = 10.8 million. I suspect nearly all of us would choose the certain 8 million if the chances of getting the 12 were 99% or even 99.99%. What that means is that 4 million difference is almost zero in terms of real value.

 

[George O'Brien]

Actually, the issue facing Hunter has to do with how good he thinks he is going to become. Here are two scenerios (overly simplified) you might consider:

2 years at $3 million a year
5 years at $2 million a year with a player option after two years

If you are sure you are going to do extremely well, then the first option is the best because you get an extra $2 million. If you aren't sure, then the second option is more attractive because you are sure of making $4 million more, even if injured, but still can get a bigger contract after two years if you do really well.

Obviously, if the options are all for five year deals, then the financial decision is straightforward. However, we don't know if that is what people are offering yet.

 

[scotsman13]

i think you are right george. i think the suns are going to resign him and it will be for the other part of the MLE left from bell. it will be for maybe 4 years with player opion for the last 2. the reason for that is the suns would then have his bird rights and we would even have moved out from the small shadow of of Kurt Thomas' contract. sarver has already come out and said he knows that he is going to have to spend money to make this team successful. also with his company hitting the NYSE i think his value is going to be really climbing (sarver) in the next couple years.

one of the peices from espn yesterday stated that the suns have 3.8 million under the cap? so let me see if i understand this? we can spend that? because JJ is a Base year player (so that doesnt raise the the team salery vs. the cap for this year) then we can still sign some players for the MLE and the LLE and then the vit min? or do we not get the money under the cap if we use the MLE? anyone for sure on the new CBA?

 

[sunsfn]

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[font=Verdana,Helvetica,Arial]Article from realgm[/font]

[font=Verdana,Helvetica,Arial]Are Jazz pursuing Suns center Hunter?[/font]

[font=Verdana,Helvetica,Arial]By Tim Buckley[/font]
[font=Verdana,Helvetica,Arial]Deseret Morning News[/font] [font=Georgia,Verdana] With free-agent shooting guard Raja Bell lost to Phoenix, the Jazz will shop the NBA's summer free-agency market with several more million dollars than if Bell had stayed in Utah.
In a counter of sorts, it's believed some of that money could now be offered to a certain Suns big man.
Seven-foot center Steven Hunter apparently wants out of Phoenix, and the Jazz are thought to be weighing the wisdom of offering him a contract. Hunter apparently wants more than what the Suns are willing to spend, and the Jazz now have that extra cash.
Hunter, a DePaul product who has played three seasons in Orlando and one in Phoenix, is just one of several big men the Jazz have on their radar. Mikki Moore of the Los Angeles Clippers, another 7-footer who played 28 games for the Jazz in the 2003-04 season, may be another.
Utah also is looking for help at the point, with Dan Dickau of New Orleans a possibility, and on the perimeter to replace Bell, with Philadelphia's Willie Green under consideration.
Green, who would address shooting-guard needs but not point-guard needs should the Jazz land him, is a restricted free agent. That means the 76ers are permitted to match any offer he might receive.
The Jazz, meanwhile, still do not know the fate of second-round draft choice C.J. Miles.
A decision on whether the Texas high school product will sign with them or go to the University of Texas next season probably will not be made any earlier than Tuesday. It continues to appear, however, that Miles is leaning heavily toward turning pro.
First-round draft choice Deron Williams is expected to sign his scale-pay contract later this week, sometime before the Jazz open training camp for next week's Rocky Mountain *****.
As for Bell, who orally committed when the market opened Friday to accept a five-year contract perhaps worth in excess of $25 million from Phoenix, it's believed he opted for the Suns' offer over one from Detroit.[/font]




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[George O'Brien]

Jerry Sloan would be pulling out his hair with Hunter. Hunter is not any better than the guys he lost with last season.

 

[coloradosun]

Typical media misrepresentation, "apparently Hunter wants out of Phoenix". Why can't reporters be straight forwand and say "apparently Hunter wants more money out of Phoenix", that would be an accurate assessment.

 

[Chaz]

Typical media misrepresentation, "apparently Hunter wants out of Phoenix". Why can't reporters be straight forwand and say "apparently Hunter wants more money out of Phoenix", that would be an accurate assessment.

Exactly, I have heard Hunter himself say he would like to return to Phoenix.

 

[George O'Brien]

For all the talk about teams wanting to copy the Suns, there are very few teams that really use a center whose main virtue is that he runs the court well. Hunter is actually useful to the Suns, but is likely to fail on most teams.

 

[Biclops]

Hunter is actually useful to the Suns, but is likely to fail on most teams.

I agree... especially on a disciplined team like the jazz. Hunter is an athletic player but I think that his basketball IQ is not that high. I could really see him benched early by Sloan due to mental error and defensive lapses

In the end, I really hope Hunter signs with us for the 1.7 million (I highly doubt it though)

 

[George O'Brien]

I agree... especially on a disciplined team like the jazz. Hunter is an athletic player but I think that his basketball IQ is not that high. I could really see him benched early by Sloan due to mental error and defensive lapses

In the end, I really hope Hunter signs with us for the 1.7 million (I highly doubt it though)

I think the basis of the article was "payback" on the Bell signing, rather than a serious analysis of the player. In any case, it give me a good feeling to mess over the Jazz after they burned the Suns in the Googs buyout.

 

[Joe Mama]

I think the basis of the article was "payback" on the Bell signing, rather than a serious analysis of the player. In any case, it give me a good feeling to mess over the Jazz after they burned the Suns in the Googs buyout.

Ditto. Their Utah Jazz knew how badly the Phoenix Suns wanted/needed to make that deal, and they really bent the Suns over. I mean they made out like bandits in that deal. It's not like they sacrificed at all taking Tom Gugliotta. They saved money.

I don't see Hunter fitting in with the Utah Jazz. Remember how Jerry Sloan treated Ostertag? He would never put up with all of Hunter's mental lapses. I mean if Hunter can get coach Mike screaming at him he will have Jerry Sloan all over him.

Joe Mama

 

[sunsfn]

The exception would be the amount of Kittles's salary last year, since the Nets got only a second-round draft pick in return. If that's true, they can offer Abdur-Rahim (or Marshall) the full amount of the exception, by having the player do a sign-and-trade in a similar deal.

I suppose the next question is whether New Jersey feels like spending that kind of money when they already have Kidd, Carter, and Jefferson on big deals.

I thought Kittles made 12-14 mil last year. Is that how the trade exception is figured?

I thought I read where NJ had a 2.5 mil trade exception.

elindholm, you could be right, but are you sure on that?

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[Mainstreet]

I agree... especially on a disciplined team like the jazz. Hunter is an athletic player but I think that his basketball IQ is not that high. I could really see him benched early by Sloan due to mental error and defensive lapses

In the end, I really hope Hunter signs with us for the 1.7 million (I highly doubt it though)

Here is something I've thought about, but do not know the answer.


Could the Suns help offset an offer from other teams by giving Hunter a longer term offer with a player option? This of course assumes the other team making an offer is giving him less years.

My present position in regard to improving the Suns roster is as follows:

1. Do a sign and trade with the Bucks for Pachulia for Voshkuhl and number one or more picks if necessary. I don't know about if the CAP would be a problem.

2. Resign Hunter (I agree he will be useless to most other teams).

3. Do a sign and trade with the Bucks for Gadzuric for Voshkuhl and a number one.

4. Try to get Diop.

5. Sign the best of the leftover FA c/pf prospects (Madsen? or whoever fits best)

6. Sign the best player c/pf out of the Summer leagues... perhaps that Lonnie ______ (who is reportedly a monster on the boards).

7. Use the vet minimum to sign a journeyman PG for insurance.

Note: items 1-5 are pretty much listed in the order of preference but I will flip-flop on these options depending on being able to get the deal done. However, I do want another playable 4/5 and a backup PG.