I hate to say it but at this point Kyler just isn’t that good...

[BritCard]

I mean I put him in the 11-15 range right now. Kirk Cousins I don't have in the that range.

Depends how you measure it I suppose. Most people would rate QB's on pure passing ability and ability to close out games. Right now, on passing ability Kyler is below average. I'd put him around 20.

If you factor in his legs and dynamic play making ability then yeah he's probably around 12-14 ish. If he could sort out his throwing issues, even get them back to where they were late last year, he'd be top 10.

I don't know why some have a problem with this. You can be a fan of Kyler, you can say he's our franchise QB and you can say he's great to watch, and still say his passing has been poor, because it has. Even Kyler says that.

And all this poor passing has come against opponents that equal the 4th easiest passing defense schedule anybody has faced so far. What's it going to look like against the Rams, Bills, Pats, Dolphins etc?

 

[Ronin]

Kyle Odegard
@Kyle_Odegard
·
18m

Kyler Murray had more passing yardage on his two longest completions Monday (140) than he did on all 24 completions against the Panthers (133).

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Depends how you measure it I suppose. Most people would rate QB's on pure passing ability and ability to close out games. Right now, on passing ability Kyler is below average. I'd put him around 20.

If you factor in his legs and dynamic play making ability then yeah he's probably around 12-14 ish. If he could sort out his throwing issues, even get them back to where they were late last year, he'd be top 10.

I don't know why some have a problem with this. You can be a fan of Kyler, you can say he's our franchise QB and you can say he's great to watch, and still say his passing has been poor, because it has. Even Kyler says that.

And all this poor passing has come against opponents that equal the 4th easiest passing defense schedule anybody has faced so far. What's it going to look like against the Rams, Bills, Pats, Dolphins etc?

People thing you are rating him too low. That's why.

 

[BritCard]

People thing you are rating him too low. That's why.

People think he's better than 12-14 right now? With some of the throws he has missed?

I think it's fair to say he has been dynamic with his legs but then I think all QB's should be rated on how they are throwing first and foremost.

 

[Shane]

People think he's better than 12-14 right now? With some of the throws he has missed?

I think it's fair to say he has been dynamic with his legs but then I think all QB's should be rated on how they are throwing first and foremost.

No question. A QB PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY is to throw the ball. We still have yet to see a true running QB win a championship. There’s a reason for that. I don’t care how great you are with your legs. If you can’t Throw accurately and see open WRS there is going to be problems moving forward that the legs just won’t cover. Especially in the playoffs should you make it there. There is a reason Mahomes owns Baltimore.

 

[TaylorSwift]

People think he's better than 12-14 right now? With some of the throws he has missed?

I think it's fair to say he has been dynamic with his legs but then I think all QB's should be rated on how they are throwing first and foremost.

The thing is that he makes big plays with both his arms and legs.

Yes consistently is lacking but Idk 3 qbs with the combination of deep ball accuracy and mobility that Kyler have.

 

[BritCard]

The thing is that he makes big plays with both his arms and legs.

Yes consistently is lacking but Idk 3 qbs with the combination of deep ball accuracy and mobility that Kyler have.

He's 37.5% on deep ball completion which is #20 in the league and significantly down from last year where I believe he finished #4 on the season.

He is 94.4% in red zone completion which is #3.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

People think he's better than 12-14 right now? With some of the throws he has missed?

I think it's fair to say he has been dynamic with his legs but then I think all QB's should be rated on how they are throwing first and foremost.

I think so. I think he is closer to 10. While I think that being an accurate with your passing is the number 1 skill you should focus on as a QB, you have to evaluate each QB as a sum of their collective parts. This isn't Dan Marino's league anymore.

He has definitely regressed in his accuracy this year, but we don't know if this is an anomaly or a sign of things to come.

He is already equal with Lamar in his running skills.

He is also lights out in short yardage and red zone efficiency. This is is the hardest part of the offense to get right, and he is excelling at it.

With all of his flaws, he is closer to 10-12 than 12-14, and easily has the ability to crack the top 5.

Coming back full circle, consider this... There are still people out there recently saying that Kyler isn't our QBOF and we shouldn't have traded Rosen.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Next time I get in trouble with my wife I am going to use the "if you don't count that I am really good" logic. Wish me luck

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Next time I get in trouble with my wife I am going to use the "if you don't count that I am really good" logic. Wish me luck

Sigh. Murray has been accurate his entire football career up until recently. We all know he has left plays on the field, but it is disingenious to say he is an inaccurate passer.

 

[BritCard]

Sigh. Murray has been accurate his entire football career up until recently. We all know he has left plays on the field, but it is disingenious to say he is an inaccurate passer.

Ok, he's an inaccurate passer right now on many throws over 10 yards. And we are judging him on the right now right? I used to be 20lbs lighter but those days are gone. I might get it back someday but not right now.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Sigh. Murray has been accurate his entire football career up until recently. We all know he has left plays on the field, but it is disingenious to say he is an inaccurate passer.

I am just poking fun at the "If you don't count this" argument.

Right now we have instances of inaccuracy. I am not going to worry until it becomes a trend.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Ok, he's an inaccurate passer right now on many throws over 10 yards. And we are judging him on the right now right? I used to be 20lbs lighter but those days are gone. I might get it back someday but not right now.

Yes and no. Do we judge other QBs on a week to week basis, or a 6 week basis? Not completely. I sure hope we aren't calling Aaron Rodgers a mediocre QB because he had accuracy issues last week.

You judge on what happened this week, this year, his career. You also have to look at his entire body of work, his entire skill set.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I am just poking fun at the "If you don't count this" argument.

Right now we have instances of inaccuracy. I am not going to worry until it becomes a trend.

I got it. I could tell you were somewhat tongue in cheek, but people truly have that belief.

 

[kerouac9]

Ok, he's an inaccurate passer right now on many throws over 10 yards. And we are judging him on the right now right? I used to be 20lbs lighter but those days are gone. I might get it back someday but not right now.

I think that saying that he's an inaccurate passer right now is likely to get tripped up in the fact that his completion percentage is actually higher right now than it was last year. He's on pace for almost 4000/1000.

The problem is that he's SO STREAKY, and too often we're taking a slow start to begin games.

Week 1: 1 first down in our first 5 drives
Week 2: First possession started inside WAS territory, then 2 3-and-outs, then a big pass to Isabella that bogs down
Week 4: 6 first downs in the first half

I think it's just hard to watch that kind of feast-or-famine offense, especially when you're not getting good field position based on turnovers and whatnot.

People are saying "Kyler just needs to get into a rhythm," but I don't think Kyler is a rhythm passer and I don't think this is a rhythm offense. My hope is that Kyler is doing his homework during the week and watching the film as hard as he works out at the gym. From the Jake Plummer years, slow starts are usually a sign that you're underprepared.

 

[Shane]

I think so. I think he is closer to 10. While I think that being an accurate with your passing is the number 1 skill you should focus on as a QB, you have to evaluate each QB as a sum of their collective parts. This isn't Dan Marino's league anymore.

He has definitely regressed in his accuracy this year, but we don't know if this is an anomaly or a sign of things to come.

He is already equal with Lamar in his running skills.

He is also lights out in short yardage and red zone efficiency. This is is the hardest part of the offense to get right, and he is excelling at it.

With all of his flaws, he is closer to 10-12 than 12-14, and easily has the ability to crack the top 5.

Coming back full circle, consider this... There are still people out there recently saying that Kyler isn't our QBOF and we shouldn't have traded Rosen.

actually passing QBs is what wins championships still to this day. Until a Kyler or a Lamar Jackson wins a title then you can say it’s a “different league” JMO. They have become the rage and accepted and they win some games but until they win meaningful games with there legs it’s still a passing league and I don’t see that changing.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

actually passing QBs is what wins championships still to this day. Until a Kyler or a Lamar Jackson wins a title then you can say it’s a “different league” JMO. They have become the rage and accepted and they win some games but until they win meaningful games with there legs it’s still a passing league and I don’t see that changing.

I can say it, watch. It is a different league.

Defense and running also wins championships too.

 

[kerouac9]

actually passing QBs is what wins championships still to this day. Until a Kyler or a Lamar Jackson wins a title then you can say it’s a “different league” JMO. They have become the rage and accepted and they win some games but until they win meaningful games with there legs it’s still a passing league and I don’t see that changing.

More importantly, by Kyler's own request, we should evaluate him as a passing QB first.

No one was a bigger Michael Vick fan than I — believe me — but Kyler has to find a way to make better and more completions.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

More importantly, by Kyler's own request, we should evaluate him as a passing QB first.

No one was a bigger Michael Vick fan than I — believe me — but Kyler has to find a way to make better and more completions.

I think he will.

 

[Shane]

I can say it, watch. It is a different league.

It’s really not though. What’s winning titles? Mahomes with his legs or his arm? There’s a smittling of players that dazzle with their running ability but overall it is a passing league. That’s what wins titles still to this day.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It’s really not though. What’s winning titles? Mahomes with his legs or his arm? There’s a smittling of players that dazzle with their running ability but overall it is a passing league. That’s what wins titles still to this day.

It is a combination of both. Mahomes isn't running like Lamar or Kyler, more like Wilson or Rodgers.

You have to be able to move around in today's NFL, that means either rushing the ball, or buying time in the pocket. The stationary targets, even ones that have one like Brees and Brady aren't going to be winning many more championships in the near future.

 

[DVontel]

It’s really not though. What’s winning titles? Mahomes with his legs or his arm? There’s a smittling of players that dazzle with their running ability but overall it is a passing league. That’s what wins titles still to this day.

Both ‍

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It’s really not though. What’s winning titles? Mahomes with his legs or his arm? There’s a smittling of players that dazzle with their running ability but overall it is a passing league. That’s what wins titles still to this day.

Mahomes wouldn’t be nearly the QB that he is if he didn’t use his legs as well as he does. He may not rack up a lot of rushing yards, but a lot of his big plays come by him using his legs to extend the play.

 

[Shane]

Mahomes wouldn’t be nearly the QB that he is if he didn’t use his legs as well as he does. He may not rack up a lot of rushing yards, but a lot of his big plays come by him using his legs to extend the play.

he’s a passer first and foremost. He’s closer to a Big Ben moving in the pocket imo then a Lamar Jackson. This is still a passing league. He’s mobile yes but not a “runner”

 

[BritCard]

I think that saying that he's an inaccurate passer right now is likely to get tripped up in the fact that his completion percentage is actually higher right now than it was last year. He's on pace for almost 4000/1000.

The problem is that he's SO STREAKY, and too often we're taking a slow start to begin games.

Week 1: 1 first down in our first 5 drives
Week 2: First possession started inside WAS territory, then 2 3-and-outs, then a big pass to Isabella that bogs down
Week 4: 6 first downs in the first half

I think it's just hard to watch that kind of feast-or-famine offense, especially when you're not getting good field position based on turnovers and whatnot.

People are saying "Kyler just needs to get into a rhythm," but I don't think Kyler is a rhythm passer and I don't think this is a rhythm offense. My hope is that Kyler is doing his homework during the week and watching the film as hard as he works out at the gym. From the Jake Plummer years, slow starts are usually a sign that you're underprepared.

But so many of those passes have been short. Yes, he's been helped the last 2 games by some throws that racked up big yards but generally his comp % is helped by a lot of short passes.

While the missed throws are a concern even more so ard the ones he's not seeing / not attempting.