If this team is able to

[Cheesebeef]

Somehow unload either White or Eisley's contract and actually GETS Kobe Bryant - they challenge for the NBA Title next year and every year after that for almost a decade.

Since I don't get to see most of the games - I can't wait for the season to end and see what happens in the offseason - a possible top three lottery pick AND Kobe Bryant to go along with Amare (who looks like he's serious when he says he wants to be the best ever) and the rest of the guys - that team will dominate the league like the Bulls did. I mean seriously - imagine:

Kobe
Johnson
Whoever
Amare
Marion

with a top three pick on the bench, Zarko, Barbosa, Jacobsen (every great team has that shooter) and Voskhul.

That team is destined for greatness - I hope and pray it happens - otherwise JJ BETTER end up being the player he was right after the trade and not the player he seems to be falling a little back into right now (since Amare's return there is no doubt that JJ has regressed a little to pre-trade days.)

BRING ON THE SUMMER! (I know it's way to premature to say that - but I can't wait to see what happens.)

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

It would be amazing.

One thing, JJ has not entirely regressed to his pre trade games. While his scoring is down, his shooting percentage usually doesnt fally back to the low 30s. Also, he is still getting a lot of dimes and boards. Before he used to just completely dissapear.

You also forgot Vujanic and Lampe for the bench.

 

[arthurracoon]

JJ is also playing GREAT defense

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
It would be amazing.

One thing, JJ has not entirely regressed to his pre trade games. While his scoring is down, his shooting percentage usually doesnt fally back to the low 30s. Also, he is still getting a lot of dimes and boards. Before he used to just completely dissapear.

You also forgot Vujanic and Lampe for the bench.

you are correct sir - and I didn't mean to come off as saying JJ has totally regressed - it just seems like his numbers are starting to look less impressive than that ridiculous run he went on right after the trade and if you look at the stats the number of games where his shooting percentage is in the mid to high 30s is starting to pile up. Come on kid - get out there and do your stuff again - NO ONE'S COMING IN FOR YOU!!! Be the "other" man!

I WANT TO SEE THIS TEAM BE AMAZING AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Oh yah, I just wanted to get that out there.

In a way I am happy to see JJ playing this way. For the first time, he is showing that it isn't all or nothing. He doesn't need to be the first option on offense to be effective (like he was when amare was hurt). However, if he is needed, he can step it up.

That sounds like an awesome player to be behind hopefully two studs. Shawn plays the same way. If Kobe comes to the suns, that would give us 4 players who can give us all star numbers, but only 2 players who need to ball and attention to do it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Oh yah, I just wanted to get that out there.

In a way I am happy to see JJ playing this way. For the first time, he is showing that it isn't all or nothing. He doesn't need to be the first option on offense to be effective (like he was when amare was hurt). However, if he is needed, he can step it up.

That sounds like an awesome player to be behind hopefully two studs. Shawn plays the same way. If Kobe comes to the suns, that would give us 4 players who can give us all star numbers, but only 2 players who need to ball and attention to do it.

exactly. And anyone who doesn't think that Kobe is THE clutchest player in the NBA is smoking crack. I would never admit that to my friends in LA -- but he's the man at the end of games - I mean did anyone see that fadeaway 20 footer over Yao's hand tonight with 30 seconds left to put the Lakes up 1 - sick - absolutely sick.

I really do believe that if Kobe's found not guilty that the Colangelos will figure SOMETHING out - even if they have to sell their souls to the devil - to get him. The franchise needs him worse than they've ever needed any player in recent memory - probably since the Barkely deal.

 

[Chaplin]

I posted this on another forum, maybe it's pertinent, maybe not... it addresses the anti-Kobe feelings--not around the alleged rape, but around his so-called "bad attitude".

...but that description of Kobe is rather stale, mostly because it isn't true. Does he have a "can do it all" attitude? Probably a little bit. But here's the thing--he has the attitude because it's TRUE.

Shaq and Kobe won 3 titles pretty much by themselves--Shaq AND Kobe make Rick Fox and Derek Fisher better players. Put Derek Fisher on another team, and he probably isn't much better than Howard Eisley.

The problem is, this "core" you and others are so high on, will NEVER win an NBA championship. It just won't happen. So what do you suggest? Building through the draft is a valid proposition, but drafts are crapshoots, and frankly, being a mediocre team doesn't help you when you have a mid-first rounder every year (pretty much every year from 1993-2000). Perhaps after a few years you'll have some decent players (like Z will be in a few years), but by that time you're main pieces of the "core" have aged a couple years. Like I've said before, when does "We'll be GREAT in 2 years" become "We'll be great THIS year"? With this core, we'll be saying every year that we'll be better in 2 years. We've BEEN doing that since even before we acquired Jason Kidd, and especially immediately after acquiring him.

It really all comes down to one thing: I want the Phoenix Suns to win the NBA Championship. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Will Kobe Bryant make that more of a possibility than if we didn't have him? I answer with an emphatic YES.

ANd really, that's all I need to know.

 

[cly2tw]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
In a way I am happy to see JJ playing this way. For the first time, he is showing that it isn't all or nothing. He doesn't need to be the first option on offense to be effective (like he was when amare was hurt). However, if he is needed, he can step it up.

So, we seem to have our Pippen, or at least Harper, in JJ for our coming championship team. We are now impatiently awaiting the arrival of our Jordan in Kobe!

 

[slinslin]

Having Michael Jordan (Kobe), Scottie Pippen (Shawn Marion with ball handling and playmaking), Clyde Drexler (Joe Johnson with the consistantly good play) and Hakeem Olajuwon (Amare Stoudemire with less atheticism) on one team wouldn't hurt.

Kukoc(Zarko), Longley(Lampe), Kenny the Jet(Barbosa), Buechler(Casey Jacobsen).

mmm I only picked guys from the Rockets and Bulls championship teams...
Tony Parker (Milos Vujanic), Mark Madsen (Jake Voshkul)

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I posted this on another forum, maybe it's pertinent, maybe not... it addresses the anti-Kobe feelings--not around the alleged rape, but around his so-called "bad attitude".

It is hard to know who is right or wrong. The fact the Gary Payton is getting frustrated with the Phi Jackson offense and is unlikely to return next year reflects sentiments Kobe has had. I have never thought of Gary as an especially selfish guy.

I have never doubted the Suns would be better with Kobe than without him. My problem has been that I do not really believe he will become a Sun. That is why I am unwilling to give away players and draft picks to clear cap space if the chances seem really remote. These are bad moves unless the Colangelos are REALLY REALLY sure they will be able so sign him.

My other problem is the notion that the Suns can never win it all unless they sign Kobe. No doubt it would be easier with Kobe, but I am not prepared to give up on the Suns when they don't. I like the direction the team is going and honestly think they will be in the playoffs next season. They will be a tougher team than the one that scared the Spurs last spring.

I just think that it is unreasonable to load 35 years of frustration onto the remote chance that this one free agent is going to be signed. Maybe he will but probably he won't. I don't think that it makes any sense to refuse to think about other ptions in case he doesn't sign. It won't jinx the deal. Really.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien

My other problem is the notion that the Suns can never win it all unless they sign Kobe. No doubt it would be easier with Kobe, but I am not prepared to give up on the Suns when they don't. I like the direction the team is going and honestly think they will be in the playoffs next season and will be a tougher team than the one that scared the Spurs last spring.

You make some pertinent points, but I do take some offense at the above paragraph. Perhaps you should replace "Kobe" in that first sentence with "another star player". And I would think that you would probably back off a bit. You see, you and many others like you have decided to pigeonhole those of us that support signing Kobe Bryant into some narrow-minded bandwagoners. And like I stated earlier--my goal is to WIN an NBA Championship. Kobe Bryant puts this team much closer to that goal. That is a fact, and I cannot fathom how anyone can dispute that. I mean, you want a championship too, right? If you're perfectly happy with spending the rest of your life watching the Suns "develop their young talent", perhaps you should just stick to the Coyotes. Me, I want a damn championship, and sometimes I think Suns fans lose sight of that.

The problem here is that in everyone's opinions about acquiring him, the fact that he is Kobe Bryant will ALWAYS matter in one way or another. Heck, I used to hate the guy, and still hold a certain dislike for him since he wears that disgusting yellow uniform, BUT I'm not blind to the fact that he would make our team better--period.

I disagree about our chances in the playoffs. We may be able to make the playoffs, but we won't be a "tougher team than the one that scared the Spurs." Why? Stephon Marbury. Funny thing is, the only reason we lost that series is really because Marbury was injured. I firmly believe that if Marbury had not gotten injured, we could have taken that series--I would have given us at least a 50/50 chance.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I agree with most of what you said, althogh I wanted to add my thoughts on one other part:

My problem has been that I do not really believe he will become a Sun. That is why I am unwilling to give away players and draft picks to clear cap space if the chances seem really remote. These are bad moves unless the Colangelos are REALLY REALLY sure they will be able so sign him.

First off, the 2 players we would have to get rid of are not impact players. White has had some good games, and he is an effective big body, but nothing overly special. Eisley is just Howard Eisley.

At this point, unless we are giving away a top 3 pick this season, it will be hard to argue we are better off keeping the pick instead of moving the cap space. Yes, the suns have an amazing talent for picking good player in the mid round. However, these players are usually solid role players. We have enough solid role players at this point.

Our team needs another superstar. Amare will surely develop into a one of a kind player, but he will need a sidekick. JJ has the tools, but not the personality to dominate a team. Marion is a complimentary player, the best there is, but he isn't a superstar.

Teams only get the opportunity to go after a top 5 player in FA once in a decade, if they are lucky. I would fault the suns if they did not at least try to get Kobe. Also, if the suns miss out on Kobe this summer, they could sit on their cap room and try for TMAC in the next year.

 

[PhxGametime]

As much as I'd like Suns to keep pick - the 3 players I'm targeting=

Dwight Howard
Emeka Okafor
Andre Iguodala

would be considered complimentary players, if even reach same level as Shawn Marion. As back-up plan - adding 1 of these prospects and another complimentary player (Okur, Swift, Haywood, etc) and Milos Vujanic could put team in playoffs but Kobe puts team in mix for Championship.

Not sure how to react if Kobe was a Sun but team would be much improved. BUT I'm starting to believe McGrady and Kobe isn't a good fit...

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin

I disagree about our chances in the playoffs. We may be able to make the playoffs, but we won't be a "tougher team than the one that scared the Spurs." Why? Stephon Marbury. Funny thing is, the only reason we lost that series is really because Marbury was injured. I firmly believe that if Marbury had not gotten injured, we could have taken that series--I would have given us at least a 50/50 chance.

I think the Suns do need to improve the team and getting a player who can make a difference would be huge. This team has a lot of talent and Amare is getting very close to being one of the top players in the NBA. The guys that have won three of the last four games are not a fluke - they really can play.

As for Stephon, yes he is a fine player. There are moments when he would be as good a player as anyone. But he is also a guy who would shoot the team out of its offense when he would just keep clanking three poit attempts or waste time dribbling around rather than passing it.

Exactly how anxious are you to go for the championship NOW? If Kobe isn't available, would you consider Gary Payton? Yes, he is 35 years old -- but in the games I've watched he certainly looks like he can play at a very high high level. Signing Payton makes no sense if you are planning to win three years from now, but he could make the Suns a vastly better team for the next two seasons while Barbosa and Vujanic get tutored. (In this case, it would mean just cutting Eisley).

Is Payton still a star? Except for the age issue, I would prefer Payton over Marbury to run the Suns offense. Also I suspect he is still a better defender than Marbury. Currently Payton has a contract calling for $5.4 million next season that he can opt out of.

Just curious.

 

[cly2tw]

Originally posted by BbaLL_31
but Kobe puts team in mix for Championship.

Not sure how to react if Kobe was a Sun but team would be much improved. BUT I'm starting to believe McGrady and Kobe isn't a good fit...

Let's just worry about getting one a time. How about that?

 

[Chaplin]

No to Payton. The only veteran player I would consider throwing more than a minimum at is probably Vlade Divac. And even that is debatable.

Why no to Payton? He's old. AND he might get us to the playoffs well enough, but there's no way Gary Payton makes the Suns a championship team. Kobe does.

You're also misunderstanding what I'm saying about Stephon. I'm saying the only reason we lost that SA series was because Stephon got injured. I'm NOT saying, however, that the only reason we were losing this season was because of Stephon. He has flaws just like any other player, but in last year's playoffs, he really was the difference, whether you like him as a player or not.

Now, imagine that was Kobe Bryant. The Spurs WON the championship. With Kobe we would have certainly beat the Spurs in the first round.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I see what you are saying George. I just don't think that Payton for example makes the suns a contender next year. He will make them a playoff team, possibly even into the second round. However, like you said, it is a quick fix, with no guarantees.

You just have to throw all have at Kobe Bryant. Landing him doens't make you a contender for 2 years, it makes you a contender for 10 years.

Instantly the suns would have to be considered a contender. Even after that, assuming they can lock Amare into a contract extension, they would have their top 3 players in contract till the end of the 2009 season. That will be long after LA, Dallas and Sac are winding down. You have to like the suns chances against the Grizz and Nuggets team of the future.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by cly2tw
Let's just worry about getting one a time. How about that?

I think it's funny that the ONLY time we've heard anything regarding TMac and Kobe was that one day--AND Gambo never wrote a word about it in his column...

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I think it's funny that the ONLY time we've heard anything regarding TMac and Kobe was that one day--AND Gambo never wrote a word about it in his column...

Getting one is almost impossible. The odds of getting both would be impossible squared.

On a more serious note, if the Suns did have the money/trade values to get two max players, I would think adding a center would be more reasonable than a second first option shooter.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Getting one is almost impossible. The odds of getting both would be impossible squared.

On a more serious note, if the Suns did have the money/trade values to get two max players, I would think adding a center would be more reasonable than a second first option shooter.

And which center would a) be worth a max contract, and b) able to actually sign (and want) to sign with the Suns?

This is the same thing that is your motto George--and unfortunately you're living in Bizarro world because of it!

 

[Joe Mama]

I think Gary Payton is a terrible team player. I wouldn't want him getting close to any of the young players on this team. I think he'll go play for a contender that really does need a point guard.

Joe Mama