If We Trade #3 - What would you take?

[BritCard]

I even think Chicago takes Carter over Anderson since they just moved to a 4-3 last offseason.

I can't see it but I hope so. They were #32 in sacks this year with only 20. They need a big time Edge and I think Anderson can play 4-3 DE. He makes up for weight with strength.

 

[Proximo]

I'm just not very hot on DT's that high. I think they struggle to transition and guys that looks great in college against future truckers struggle vs much stronger, faster and more experienced NFL players.

And Carter has 6 career sacks in 35 career games and 18.5 TFL's. There's a lot of "He's so strong and he gets a tonne of pressures but hasn't had the production because Georgia rotate the line so much" or "He's been playing injured". I get that.

But that asks the question "Can he handle an NFL workload?" He played 396 snaps in 2021 (40%) and 308 snaps in 2022. In the NFL he's going to need to play 800+ snaps a year. That's a massive leap.

I'm just not comfortable projecting DT's at #3 that don't have steller college production and such limited play time.

I feel there's more projection and hope there than with Anderson. So if Anderson is gone and it's Carter or trade back I think I'd take the trade back.

I'm even more radical than you. I think the only DT I have ever seen I think is worthy of a top 10 pick is Aaron Donald. Pretty sure Carter is not that.

 

[DVontel]

Simmons was the right pick over Wirfs.

Sooo…

It was the wrong choice now looking back.......

It wasn’t the right pick.

You’re contradicting yourself.

It was always the wrong pick to take the position-less player over a franchise OT. Always.

 

[PACardsFan]

I can't see it but I hope so. They were #32 in sacks this year with only 20. They need a big time Edge and I think Anderson can play 4-3 DE. He makes up for weight with strength.

Yes. Anderson can play in both with his overall package of speed, strength, and explosiveness. Sadly, I don’t see any way that he’s around at 3. The Bears will scoop him up in a heartbeat. The only hope we have is if the Colts offer them the moon & stars to move up into 1 to take a QB.

 

[SoonerLou]

Sooo…

It wasn’t the right pick.

You’re contradicting yourself.

It was always the wrong pick to take the position-less player over a franchise OT. Always.

Franchise altering pick/non pick.

And the funny thing is after the pick Keim said "Well that pretty much went perfect."

 

[football karma]

It was always the wrong pick to take the position-less player over a franchise OT. Always.

as someone who at the time on the clock advocated for Simmons -- i would say it this way:

if you subscribe to the high value position theory: Pass Rush, OT, QB, CB

then Wirfs should have been the choice over a S/LB

but as K9 correctly points out: Keim has been chasing the next Daryl Washington for 10 years or something

 

[Chopper0080]

Imagine passing on Carter for a guy that hasn’t lived anywhere close to his high school hype in Breese. Talk about worse case scenario.

Some of this will come down to length. I have heard Carter does not have long arms which can hurt DL ability to disengage from blocks. Also, he is 6'3 vs Bresse 6'5. My overall point is that if you aren't convinced Carter is 1B to Anderson's 1A status at the top of the draft, I get trading down.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I'm just not very hot on DT's that high. I think they struggle to transition and guys that looks great in college against future truckers struggle vs much stronger, faster and more experienced NFL players.

And Carter has 6 career sacks in 35 career games and 18.5 TFL's. There's a lot of "He's so strong and he gets a tonne of pressures but hasn't had the production because Georgia rotate the line so much" or "He's been playing injured". I get that.

But that asks the question "Can he handle an NFL workload?" He played 396 snaps in 2021 (40%) and 308 snaps in 2022. In the NFL he's going to need to play 800+ snaps a year. That's a massive leap.

I'm just not comfortable projecting DT's at #3 that don't have steller college production and such limited play time.

I feel there's more projection and hope there than with Anderson. So if Anderson is gone and it's Carter or trade back I think I'd take the trade back.

That's a great question...I just looked up Aaron Donald's snap counts in 2021 (when he was healthy) and he took almost 1100 snaps at 89% of plays. I don't know if that's normal for DT's, or not, but he's always been a difference maker and that's what we should be looking for at #3...a difference maker.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think everyone would stay for Anderson. Maybe everyone? But pretty much everyone. Carter is a more confusing one that over time we can debate more. Hopefully we get WA as I think we will have a great shot at it. I even think Chicago takes Carter over Anderson since they just moved to a 4-3 last offseason.

Also...... Simmons was the right pick over Wirfs. No after-action review will change that stance from me. It was the wrong choice now looking back....... But its not the glaring error everyone thinks it is now. Levi Brown over AP was a glaring error. Simmons over Wirfs was almost universally understood as a great move aside from a few dissenting voices.

This gets thrown around a lot and I strongly disagree that was true at the time. @DVontel highlights it well. So many people were saying that when factoring in positional value and overall grades, it was very debatable which was a better prospect.

 

[Chopper0080]

In the end, if you think Anderson and Carter are top of the draft talent outside of QB, you only trade down if you can ensure you are still getting one of those two players. If you believe Anderson is 1, and then Carter is in the next tier, you trade down for as much value as you can get.

All comes down to each individuals evaluation of Carter.

 

[BritCard]

In the end, if you think Anderson and Carter are top of the draft talent outside of QB, you only trade down if you can ensure you are still getting one of those two players. If you believe Anderson is 1, and then Carter is in the next tier, you trade down for as much value as you can get.

All comes down to each individuals evaluation of Carter.

I know your a Bresee fan. Do you think there is that much between him and Carter?

 

[Chopper0080]

I know your a Bresee fan. Do you think there is that much between him and Carter?

Honestly, I am still figuring that out.

I feel like I know Carter has a higher floor and Bresse comes with more risk. I have settled on that.

I think Bresse has shown more in his ability to generate sacks than Carter but Carter has more tackles and TFLs which hints that the gap could close.

I like Bresse's frame more than Carter's but that is just a personal preference piece.

I don't worry about Carter's ability to handle the physical aspect of the NFL and am unsure if Bresse can.

I need more info on the athletic profile of Carter before I can can one way or the other. Is he Deron Payne and/or Quinnen Williams? Is that worth passing on multiple players for? I just don't know yet. You kinda have to ask yourself what is Quinnen Williams (Payne also) value and start there if you think they are similar prospects

 

[Harry]

Honestly, I am still figuring that out.

I feel like I know Carter has a higher floor and Bresse comes with more risk. I have settled on that.

I think Bresse has shown more in his ability to generate sacks than Carter but Carter has more tackles and TFLs which hints that the gap could close.

I like Bresse's frame more than Carter's but that is just a personal preference piece.

I don't worry about Carter's ability to handle the physical aspect of the NFL and am unsure if Bresse can.

I need more info on the athletic profile of Carter before I can can one way or the other. Is he Deron Payne and/or Quinnen Williams? Is that worth passing on multiple players for? I just don't know yet. You kinda have to ask yourself what is Quinnen Williams (Payne also) value and start there if you think they are similar prospects

Russ had a consideration on Bresee that’s worth noting. Bresee Previously had a tough ACL tear. He looks recovered but if he tears it again stats say he’s likely done. I do like him in spite of this.

 

[Harry]

The big thing about trading down is what do you need to get for sure coming out of this draft. To me that’s DL help. You can’t go far to get a sure thing. Also if you take future picks, where is that team likely to
Pick. If the Jets get Jimmy G their pick could be very low

 

[Dr. Jones]

Sooo…

It wasn’t the right pick.

You’re contradicting yourself.

It was always the wrong pick to take the position-less player over a franchise OT. Always.

It's not a contradiction to be honest after the fact but still understand the motive and purpose on draft night. On draft night.... the overwhelming response on this board and in the media was that we got a hell of a player at a spot no one thought he would fall to. Draft pick thread

And didn't you want Wills over Wirfs?

Regardless...... you were right. You get respect for that.

Who do we draft now at #8?

If we took Becton over Simmons.... It would constitute a Bill O'Brien level of stupidity & incompetence. I would rather trade back with the Niners...... Allow them to get Simmons...... and then us take Jeudy or Kinlaw rather than letting Becton near our team. I understand. I don’t want...

www.arizonasportsfans.com

I understand.

I don’t want Simmons though.

Why? I can't find a single reason why he wouldn't be a great fit for us at 8.

1. I don’t believe in drafting a ILB in the top 8. Almost the RBs of defense. Shortest shelf life & you combine that with taking them longer to reach their peak compared to other positions on defense & just.....no thanks.

2. I don’t trust Vance Joseph on properly how to use him.

3. I believe in protecting Kyler & opening big holes for our running games offers a lot more value than a non-pass rushing LB. I’d be furious if we took Simmons over a Willis if both were still on the board.

Drafting the “rich man’s version of Deone” at #8 isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement...

We also gotta be real with ourselves guys, he’s not covering no slot WR in the NFL. Against a TE? Sure, but a slot WR? You are playing with the biggest of flames there.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I definitely wanted Simmons at 8. No shame in that. He was supposed to be the player that we needed to help cover the TE.

 

[PACardsFan]

My order of preference:
1. Brown
2. Wirfs
3. Simmons
4. Lamb

Overall, I was content with Simmons. But, I had the same concerns that VJ couldn’t develop him.

 

[Chopper0080]

Russ had a consideration on Bresee that’s worth noting. Bresee Previously had a tough ACL tear. He looks recovered but if he tears it again stats say he’s likely done. I do like him in spite of this.

100% health and durability is part of the riskiness of him.

 

[KiwiCard]

If there was no trade made for the first pick, I would be inclined to try and bluff the Colts and tell them that Carolina have called offering a appealing proposal for #3 and we are thinking of taking it but not before giving them an option as we’d rather pick 4 then 9.

Now likely only one QB is gone off the board and they may be content with 2 options in which case they decline. However if they are enamoured with one they may trade up for fear of the panthers picking that player.

If they do trade we pick up some extra draft capital and still get one of Carter/Anderson.

I don’t think I would actually trade back to 9 if it was offered unless it was a ridiculous offer.

 

[BritCard]

If there was no trade made for the first pick, I would be inclined to try and bluff the Colts and tell them that Carolina have called offering a appealing proposal for #3 and we are thinking of taking it but not before giving them an option as we’d rather pick 4 then 9.

Now likely only one QB is gone off the board and they may be content with 2 options in which case they decline. However if they are enamoured with one they may trade up for fear of the panthers picking that player.

If they do trade we pick up some extra draft capital and still get one of Carter/Anderson.

I don’t think I would actually trade back to 9 if it was offered unless it was a ridiculous offer.

What would be very handy is if CJ Stroud weighed in at 205+ and someone fell in love with him

 

[Harry]

This is a tough one for me. Theres no way I trade if Carter is there. If insanity happens and the Bears take Carter, I want a huge overpay. I’d only go to 7 and require the Raiders’ 1st, 2nd & 3rd this year and next year’s 1st.

 

[BritCard]

This is a tough one for me. Theres no way I trade if Carter is there. If insanity happens and the Bears take Carter, I want a huge overpay. I’d only go to 7 and require the Raiders’ 1st, 2nd & 3rd this year and next year’s 1st.

The more I look at the cap situation I'm not sure this org is in a position to turn down a bunch of extra draft picks.

 

[Minski]

Random draft scenario...Chicago, Cardinals and Colts in a 3 way trade...

Chicago gets: 3rd (Cards), DHop, 80th (Colts), 2024 1Rnd (Colts)
Cardinals get: 4th (Colts), 35th (Colts), 2024 3rd Rnd (Colts)
Colts get: 1st (Chi)

 

[Harry]

The more I look at the cap situation I'm not sure this org is in a position to turn down a bunch of extra draft picks.

That is a consideration. Still I’d rather do secure than rapid.

 

[don7031]

The best thing that can happen for the Cardinals would be for quarterbacks to be taken first and second with Levis being one of them. That adds a future first to what Cardinals can demand for the third pick.

I've flip flopped on my position. I'm now in favor of trading down multiple times. I want offensive linemen for Kyler. Take a tackle in the first and interior triangle guy in the second.