If/when the real refs come back the impact on games could be big

[Russ Smith]

Not necessarily Cards specific but they talked about this last night in the night game that the players are exploiting the new refs and getting away with all sorts of things because of it.

I was thinking the same thing on the eagles drive that ended with the fumble and return for a TD. THere were at least 3 blatant holds on that drive, twice an OL tackled a Cardinal with no call. Yet if you watch Batiste some time he hold on EVERY play, doesn't tackle guys but he's holding literally every play. We saw all the false starts go uncalled against Seattle and Massie had an obvious one not called against NE.

Every game I watch the holds and false starts are being missed.

It will be an interesting adjustment for every team when players have real refs I predict we'll see an increase in both holds and false starts for a few games after.

 

[Totally_Red]

Not necessarily Cards specific but they talked about this last night in the night game that the players are exploiting the new refs and getting away with all sorts of things because of it.

I was thinking the same thing on the eagles drive that ended with the fumble and return for a TD. THere were at least 3 blatant holds on that drive, twice an OL tackled a Cardinal with no call. Yet if you watch Batiste some time he hold on EVERY play, doesn't tackle guys but he's holding literally every play. We saw all the false starts go uncalled against Seattle and Massie had an obvious one not called against NE.

Every game I watch the holds and false starts are being missed.

It will be an interesting adjustment for every team when players have real refs I predict we'll see an increase in both holds and false starts for a few games after.

Batiste is the weak link on this line and yes he does get away with a lot of holding.

This was the FIRST week I really noticed the total incompetence of the replacement refs. I think a lot of coaches are getting frustrated and a lot of players are finding out what they can get away with.

I don't want the NFL to cave to the regular officials, but I do want to see the situation resolved so coaches like Jim Harbaugh don't get five timeouts and two extra challenges.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Personally, I think there is a direct correlation to the extreme parity we are seeing this year and the refs.

With the regular refs, I would bet that the Saints, and Lions don't lose this weekend for one reason or another. With the regular refs we lose in NE for one reason or another.

Beside the ridiculous amount of time wasted sorting things out, I haven't really minded the refs. I actually like them better. So, much talk about officiating yet, I have seen some poor officiating from the regular refs too.

Last year's Giants game comes to mind, funny thing too. The Saints were given the ball (fumble) against the Chiefs this weekend. Same "I give up" situation.

 

[Russ Smith]

Personally, I think there is a direct correlation to the extreme parity we are seeing this year and the refs.

With the regular refs, I would bet that the Saints, and Lions don't lose this weekend for one reason or another. With the regular refs we lose in NE for one reason or another.

Beside the ridiculous amount of time wasted sorting things out, I haven't really minded the refs. I actually like them better. So, much talk about officiating yet, I have seen some poor officiating from the regular refs too.

Last year's Giants game comes to mind, funny thing too. The Saints were given the ball (fumble) against the Chiefs this weekend. Same "I give up" situation.

I agree they don't have a built in bias oh NE is supposed to beat the Cards we're not calling that hold on Gronk. But it is getting really obvious that teams are outright scheming to exploit the refs. Telling players they won't call it so just hold.

I was really focusing on Batiste in this last game you could literally on virtually every play call him for a blatant hold. not the you can call holding on every play mantra but outright how is that not holding. And if you watched, the guy he was holding stopped complaining early in the game, he figured out they're not calling it and gave up.

Last night John Harbaugh on camera told a ref "get the F out of my F-ing face". nothing happened but then right after that he got penalized for behavior because he was screaming at the ref to come over to him and the guy didn't. It's the play where he said he was trying to call timeout, the ref apparently didn't like being cussed out so he stayed away and when Harbaugh started waving him over like a puppy, he called a penalty.

A real ref would have flagged him when he started cussing the ref out well before the play. These refs are still intimidated.

 

[dylanbw]

Personally, I think there is a direct correlation to the extreme parity we are seeing this year and the refs.

With the regular refs, I would bet that the Saints, and Lions don't lose this weekend for one reason or another. With the regular refs we lose in NE for one reason or another.

Beside the ridiculous amount of time wasted sorting things out, I haven't really minded the refs. I actually like them better. So, much talk about officiating yet, I have seen some poor officiating from the regular refs too.

Last year's Giants game comes to mind, funny thing too. The Saints were given the ball (fumble) against the Chiefs this weekend. Same "I give up" situation.

Exactly. Where was the "Victor Cruz rule" yesterday. BS.

Regarding Batiste - if necessary can we bump Colledge to LT and start Ornsburger (sp?). I know they looked at that late in training camp. can't afford Batiste to get 4 holding calls a game if the regular refs come back.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

I don't want the regular officials back
I hope replacements can improve
my only take on the replacements is applying the rules (downs, spot, yards) but the calls are right, a holding will be missed here and there. PI's are judgment calls all the time.
We've been screwed by the regulars enough even at the super bowl.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't want the regular officials back
I hope replacements can improve
my only take on the replacements is applying the rules (downs, spot, yards) but the calls are right, a holding will be missed here and there. PI's are judgment calls all the time.
We've been screwed by the regulars enough even at the super bowl.

Oh I agree real refs make mistakes too but they've been around long enough that teams can't just take advantage of them.

The entire drive by the Eagles at the end ofthe half it was like the coaches just said look they aren't calling holding so just tackle someone if he gets near Vick.

And Batiste I really recommend anybody that has the game on tape watch the first half and focus on him he is holding so much it's funny. He clearly figured out this isn't going to get called.

 

[NJCardFan]

I don't want the regular officials back
I hope replacements can improve
my only take on the replacements is applying the rules (downs, spot, yards) but the calls are right, a holding will be missed here and there. PI's are judgment calls all the time.
We've been screwed by the regulars enough even at the super bowl.

They're getting basic things wrong like time outs, downs, yardage on penalties, etc. I mean real basic stuff.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

When we lost in Ten in 2009 I think Lienart when Warner was hurt. ON the last play of the game Haggan was held. The ref was shouting "Don't hold" but the tackle did not let go. The hold was ignored.
There are so many incidents that obvious holds are not called.

Was listening couple of days ago, that the NFL needed more officials and crews to be in and they will be assessed and the good ones will be picked. The union refuse. For me looks like a monopoly by the union, mafia thing. There should be competition and having the door open for new officials not just being stuck with the ones you have till end of agreement.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Batiste is the weak link on this line and yes he does get away with a lot of holding.

This was the FIRST week I really noticed the total incompetence of the replacement refs. I think a lot of coaches are getting frustrated and a lot of players are finding out what they can get away with.

I don't want the NFL to cave to the regular officials, but I do want to see the situation resolved so coaches like Jim Harbaugh don't get five timeouts and two extra challenges.

I think more is being made of this than is warranted. He used his last time out on the same play he challenged. By rule, he shouldn't have been allowed to challenge unless the challenge and TO call were simultaneous (there's a few exceptions to this but none looked to be applicable) but the ref allowed it anyway and once that occurred they were correct in returning his time out. I notice that no one is making anything of the fact that it was clearly a fumble and that SF would have been royally screwed by the refs if it had been allowed to stand.

I don't want the regular refs back, ever. For the first time as a Cards fan I feel like we're getting an even break from the men in stripes. They miss an awful lot and they make some horrible calls but at least they don't approach the game with an agenda. The haves and have nots are treated equally.

Steve

 

[Russ Smith]

When we lost in Ten in 2009 I think Lienart when Warner was hurt. ON the last play of the game Haggan was held. The ref was shouting "Don't hold" but the tackle did not let go. The hold was ignored.
There are so many incidents that obvious holds are not called.

Was listening couple of days ago, that the NFL needed more officials and crews to be in and they will be assessed and the good ones will be picked. The union refuse. For me looks like a monopoly by the union, mafia thing. There should be competition and having the door open for new officials not just being stuck with the ones you have till end of agreement.

Yep vividly remember that and you could hear the ref yelling that on the replay too. I remember a friend saying maybe that's the Tenn coaches not the ref but it was the ref.

it happens, the point is it's not as blatant, as consistently. You don't see guys getting tackled or nearly having their pants pulled off(as CC had yesterday) and not get called. The CC play was hilarious nobody called that but then they called the grounding on Vick. they just have certain things they call much differently than regular refs and holding is clearly one of them and the NFL OL's are exploiting the hell out of it right now.

 

[ryanshaug]

If you guys are serious about keeping the replacement refs, you need your head examined. They are horrible. It's an absolute debacle throughout the league right now. Just because we are 3-0 isn't justification for keeping this joke of officiating going any longer.

 

[crisper57]

At least we won't have this happen when they come back:

You must be registered for see images

Yes, that is a ref throwing his hat onto the field.

 

[Shane]

At least we won't have this happen when they come back:

You must be registered for see images

Yes, that is a ref throwing his hat onto the field.

WTF?? What for?

 

[Fitz Rulz]

did he step out of bound ?

 

[crisper57]

WTF?? What for?

No idea. Two reasons to legitimately throw a hat:

Use it as a second flag.
Mark where a player went out of bounds.

Since neither of these is the case, I have no idea what he was thinking.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

Officiating in NFL is a part-time job.
Refs have their own jobs, pension 401K etc...
now they are asking for pension from the NFL. I never hear f part time job with benefits like that.

As I said before. There are 16 crews. That means each crew is working every week. NFL is asking to increase the crews to to have selection criteria according to performance. Union refused. So in a way you have to stick with current crews no matter what. If we are really talking about improving the officiating, there must be a competition. What are they afraid of?

Let's see who is gonna give in first.

I only blame the NFL to be in such position. Seems regular officials have the upper hand. NFL should have been ready for this and they should have had their own officiating program & training even those officials will never see the field. Be prepared.

 

[Mulli]

Anyone see the play where the officials ruled Q short by a yard and a half, then huddled, then measured and gave Baltimore about 5 extra minutes to decide whether or not to challenge?

Or the multiple phantom defensive holding calls to bail out the Ravens only to let Ray Lewis tackle Gronkowski with no flag?

 

[crisper57]

Officiating in NFL is a part-time job.
Refs have their own jobs, pension 401K etc...
now they are asking for pension from the NFL. I never hear f part time job with benefits like that.

As I said before. There are 16 crews. That means each crew is working every week. NFL is asking to increase the crews to to have selection criteria according to performance. Union refused. So in a way you have to stick with current crews no matter what. If we are really talking about improving the officiating, there must be a competition. What are they afraid of?

Let's see who is gonna give in first.

I only blame the NFL to be in such position. Seems regular officials have the upper hand. NFL should have been ready for this and they should have had their own officiating program & training even those officials will never see the field. Be prepared.

Slight correction. They already have the pension (which I agree is weird for part-timers). The NFL wants to take it away.

 

[Catfish]

Personally, I think there is a direct correlation to the extreme parity we are seeing this year and the refs.

With the regular refs, I would bet that the Saints, and Lions don't lose this weekend for one reason or another. With the regular refs we lose in NE for one reason or another.

Beside the ridiculous amount of time wasted sorting things out, I haven't really minded the refs. I actually like them better. So, much talk about officiating yet, I have seen some poor officiating from the regular refs too.

Last year's Giants game comes to mind, funny thing too. The Saints were given the ball (fumble) against the Chiefs this weekend. Same "I give up" situation.

Good thoughts Muffin. What I have seen out of these refs, is that they seem to be much more consistent than our regular refs. First off, there are absolutely NO prejudicial calls based on WHO the players involved were. Stars seem to get no better treatment than rookies do with these guys, and I REALLY like that.

Yes, they seem to let the players get more physical, (especially on the O-lines, and with the hand-fighting between Corner Backs and Wide Receivers). But their calls have been consistent all through the games with this aspect. Players seem to know more what to expect, and I believe that makes for better play. I am so sick and tired of the regular refs showing favoritism to league stars and coaches and teams.

Yes, there IS a lot of time being wasted on conferencing with the sideline league official, but in our game with Philly, I saw the head ref call his guys together for an on field conference, and after that, they seemed to do a better job of getting their information to him so that he could make the down and distance penalty decisions. Good job by him in my opinion. I am one fan who will not be ready to see the regulars come back any time soon. In my mind, I am tired of getting a letter of apology from the league every time the officials blow a call late in a game against us, (just because we are the lowly Cardinals), and are not among the respected elite of the league.

 

[kerouac9]

One thing that you're not going to see is officials getting pushed around (literally as well as figuratively) by players and coaches.

These refs just don't know the rules. It's not that the regular officials don't make mistakes--they do, small ones every game--but not with the frequency and silliness that these guys do. You never see offensive PI called with normal officials, but that's largely because players and coaches don't do it when the regular officials are out there. Now, you see Early Doucet laying out some outside corner in front of Fitz's slant route four or five times a game.

I think you can do that in NCAA, and the protection rules on QBs I believe are much more slack in the NCAA, but you can't do it at this level.

Tennessee got an extra 17 yards last week on their final drive. You don't see that with regular officials.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

I'd rather have a clause in any agreement (know it's not possible but maybe one day) that an NFL ref can't work more than 4 years - that's it.
1. We guarantee no favoritism or bias built up
2. New faces show up to the game - everyone should get a shot at it

Also, there must be sort of discipline measures
a ref blew a call or screws a game, he sits down for number of games
not only based on the calls he makes but also on the calls he doesn't make

I was reading that the NBA has a very serious officiating program and they grade officials etc..

 

[Totally_Red]

Slight correction. They already have the pension (which I agree is weird for part-timers). The NFL wants to take it away.

Most private companies are ending pensions and going to defined contribution plans with a company match. The officials are probably going to have accept that the league is not going to cave on that point.

The replacement officials should eventually improve, so it really is in the regular officials best interest to give up on the pension and get the equivalent dollars/benefits elsewhere in the contract and settle. Each paycheck they lose is money down the drain.

 

[Russ Smith]

One thing that you're not going to see is officials getting pushed around (literally as well as figuratively) by players and coaches.

These refs just don't know the rules. It's not that the regular officials don't make mistakes--they do, small ones every game--but not with the frequency and silliness that these guys do. You never see offensive PI called with normal officials, but that's largely because players and coaches don't do it when the regular officials are out there. Now, you see Early Doucet laying out some outside corner in front of Fitz's slant route four or five times a game.

I think you can do that in NCAA, and the protection rules on QBs I believe are much more slack in the NCAA, but you can't do it at this level.

Tennessee got an extra 17 yards last week on their final drive. You don't see that with regular officials.

Yeah I pointed that out last week pick plays are up like crazy this year. I'm convinced OC's have figured out they won't call it so they're running them more.

teams are literally going to have to change their gameplans when the real refs come back.

And I also think the refs are taking some focus away from where it should be with player safety. Where is the outrage over the hit on Heyward-Bey? I hear it mentioned but people are blaming the replacement ref and not the situation that led to there being replacement refs.

Where is the outrage over the play by Donte Whitner yesterday? I get he was holding up Gerhart to try and cause a fumble but my god, he was holding one leg while the other was on the ground, trying to keep Gerhart's knee from touching and he viciously yanked on the leg. He could have torn up the knee of the leg that was on the ground, he could have broken the leg he was holding. The last time I saw a play that dirty was the one Dockett did in college to Graham the RB from Florida where he DID in fact tear up the guys knee. I can't believe there was no flag there let alone an ejection and I've yet to even hear it mentioned in the media today.

Real refs would have flagged him if not thrown him out because they understand protect the players.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yes, I think the regular refs coming back will definitely effect the Cardinals negatively. They play very agressive on defense which will probably lead to more penalties on pass plays down the field and our offensive holding calls will likely double.