In The Red Zone

[CardsSunsDbacks]

http://www.azcardinals.com/videos-p...E_Review/a534f8e8-041a-4ecf-8100-4de46408e7d5

In The Red Zone interviews Coach Whiz about the NE game. At about the 9 minute mark Whiz gives a good explanation of what the thought process was for the play call that Williams fumbled on.

Basically he said that the thought process was that if you just take a knee you give the ball back to Brady with about 20 seconds left at what could be near midfield with a kicker that has a big leg. The idea was to get Williams out in space where he could burn some clock and take extra time off the clock with the spotting of the ball and the movement of the chains. Also there was the threat of picking up the first that would have sealed the game. This plan would have given NE somewhere closer to 8 second left to make something happen with no timeouts.

Honestly I was against the play call on that play, but this explanation really put that play call into perspective even if it is just a little too risky for me.

 

[Fitz Rulz]

still dunno why RW turned to the middle
where he had a clear path on the side
and I saw a blocker there already
was RW afraid that he might be push out and the clock to be stopped?
we just need to hear from the man himself thoug reckon he will never talk about it at least for the time being.

 

[Catfish]

If this was the process and design, then maybe there should have been special instructions to the rookie back not to cut it back up the middle where that kind of pressure was. He should have been told to keep it outside, but not go out of bounds.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

If this was the process and design, then maybe there should have been special instructions to the rookie back not to cut it back up the middle where that kind of pressure was. He should have been told to keep it outside, but not go out of bounds.

I have to somewhat disagree with you on this. I just don't think it is a good idea to tell a RB to ignore his instincts. I mean what if there was a big lane to run to the inside that he missed just because you told him to stay outside. I will say however that Williams has looked a little indecisive and giving him an exact direction to follow may have been good in that situation

 

[Chaz]

Williams should keep in mind to just follow 35 and cut off of his block.

He had room out by the numbers if he only stayed on the hip of his fullback.

It is a bonus that the young player gets a learning experience from the film and the team was able to win anyway.

 

[Stout]

http://www.azcardinals.com/videos-p...E_Review/a534f8e8-041a-4ecf-8100-4de46408e7d5

In The Red Zone interviews Coach Whiz about the NE game. At about the 9 minute mark Whiz gives a good explanation of what the thought process was for the play call that Williams fumbled on.

Basically he said that the thought process was that if you just take a knee you give the ball back to Brady with about 20 seconds left at what could be near midfield with a kicker that has a big leg. The idea was to get Williams out in space where he could burn some clock and take extra time off the clock with the spotting of the ball and the movement of the chains. Also there was the threat of picking up the first that would have sealed the game. This plan would have given NE somewhere closer to 8 second left to make something happen with no timeouts.

Honestly I was against the play call on that play, but this explanation really put that play call into perspective even if it is just a little too risky for me.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but you aren't burning 12 seconds MORE off the clock with a run than with a kneel down, unless you miraculously get the first--a very low risk idea that would nevertheless have sealed the victory.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but you aren't burning 12 seconds MORE off the clock with a run than with a kneel down, unless you miraculously get the first--a very low risk idea that would nevertheless have sealed the victory.

If you kneel down you take maybe a second for the play and there likely isn't any kind of scrum to clear up in order to get the ball spotted and the play clock doesn't start until the ball is placed and the whistle is blown. Factor in that the run itself could last for 4-6 seconds and there is a scrum to clear up to get the ball out and spotted could take a few more seconds. It's not crazy to think that an outside run could take 6 seconds by itself and another 6 or so to get the ball spotted to start the play clock.

 

[52brandon]

I don't know why it wasn't LSH to get the pitch. He does well on those plays. He's an elusive runner, which I would have thought would be perfect in that situation

 

[D-Dogg]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but you aren't burning 12 seconds MORE off the clock with a run than with a kneel down, unless you miraculously get the first--a very low risk idea that would nevertheless have sealed the victory.

You would. Kneel starts the playclock immediately. Run to the outside doesn't start the playclock until the ball is retrieved, run back and set. dumb refs would easily ef that up even further.

But we still snapped the ball in that drive with 6 on the clock or so...so dumb.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

You would. Kneel starts the playclock immediately. Run to the outside doesn't start the playclock until the ball is retrieved, run back and set. dumb refs would easily ef that up even further.

But we still snapped the ball in that drive with 6 on the clock or so...so dumb.

I was thinking the same thing as well when the ball was snapped. They should have been milking every second possible.

 

[Duckjake]

If you kneel down you take maybe a second for the play and there likely isn't any kind of scrum to clear up in order to get the ball spotted and the play clock doesn't start until the ball is placed and the whistle is blown. Factor in that the run itself could last for 4-6 seconds and there is a scrum to clear up to get the ball out and spotted could take a few more seconds. It's not crazy to think that an outside run could take 6 seconds by itself and another 6 or so to get the ball spotted to start the play clock.

The play where Williams got smashed for a 4 yard loss and resulting reset ran 39 seconds off the clock. The fumble took 9 seconds off so add the 22 or so seconds while the Cards let the play clock wind down and we're punting with about 40 seconds left.

What we needed was to have JJ Arrington run that toss.

 

[kerouac9]

still dunno why RW turned to the middle
where he had a clear path on the side
and I saw a blocker there already
was RW afraid that he might be push out and the clock to be stopped?
we just need to hear from the man himself thoug reckon he will never talk about it at least for the time being.

He turned to the middle because there was a cutback lane available. He just located it too late, and he didn't secure the ball before Spikes got to him.

There really wasn't an outside lane. To reach it, he would have had to retreat further into the backfield, then collect himself, and burst around the outside corner.

 

[desertdawg]

I still don't get it, we've ran hundreds of plays I call questionable during numerous wins and losses. Everybodies hung up on this one all week, I don't get it, but I guess I aint trying too either.

 

[kerouac9]

I still don't get it, we've ran hundreds of plays I call questionable during numerous wins and losses. Everybodies hung up on this one all week, I don't get it, but I guess I aint trying too either.

Because it's a flex point between two individuals that a lot of people here have passionate feelings about: Ken Whisenhunt and Ryan Williams.

I'm not sure I understand why one of the individuals have to shoulder 100% of the "blame" for this particular play, but one has to shoulder all of it and one gets to be completely blameless. Not sure why that has to be the case, but because it's an inflection point in the game--more than any other moment--we're talking about it.

The Seattle game didn't have similar inflection points, and didn't involve individuals that people have invested so much in.

 

[desertdawg]

Because it's a flex point between two individuals that a lot of people here have passionate feelings about: Ken Whisenhunt and Ryan Williams.

I'm not sure I understand why one of the individuals have to shoulder 100% of the "blame" for this particular play, but one has to shoulder all of it and one gets to be completely blameless. Not sure why that has to be the case, but because it's an inflection point in the game--more than any other moment--we're talking about it.

The Seattle game didn't have similar inflection points, and didn't involve individuals that people have invested so much in.

My thought is that game was soooo close just about every play was a flex point, or whatever we are calling it today.

Every play was a turning point, even the no gains. You can look back, and find other plays, if they went differently it wouldn't have even been close at the end.

The Ryan Williams bashing ceremony is dumb. The kid will either figure it out or he won't. You seem to have him ghost-town already, but everybody keeps leaving themselve's loop holes on that prediction. I think we all see the same thing and we haven't seen him turn it on during gametime...yet.

 

[Chaz]

The Ryan Williams bashing ceremony is dumb. The kid will either figure it out or he won't. You seem to have him ghost-town already, but everybody keeps leaving themselve's loop holes on that prediction. I think we all see the same thing and we haven't seen him turn it on during gametime...yet.

He is going to turn it around. Maybe even this week.

With the on and off field issues this week he "hit rock bottom" according to Urban. Nowhere to go but up now.

 

[kerouac9]

My thought is that game was soooo close just about every play was a flex point, or whatever we are calling it today.

Every play was a turning point, even the no gains. You can look back, and find other plays, if they went differently it wouldn't have even been close at the end.

The Ryan Williams bashing ceremony is dumb. The kid will either figure it out or he won't. You seem to have him ghost-town already, but everybody keeps leaving themselve's loop holes on that prediction. I think we all see the same thing and we haven't seen him turn it on during gametime...yet.

I don't think that's fair. I hated the pick, and I really hated the hype the last two preseasons. But I like his potential enough that on my fantasy team I traded MoJo Drew and Kenny Britt for him and Julio Jones.

I want Ryan Williams to succeed, because that means that the Arizona Cardinals have a better chance of succeeding. But that doesn't change my opinion that the pick itself was dumb, and Ryan Williams was over-rated as a prospect for reasons that have little to do with on-field performance (a problem that this personnel department and coaching staff had in the past).

I think at this point that we shouldn't expect much from Ryan Williams this year. Young running backs rarely take a few games to "warm up." The best case scenario at this point is probably to hope that he needs a season of game time, practice, and film study to figure out the pro game (not unexpected considering the gimmick offense he played in at Virginia Tech) and expect him to be productive enough that the team can play hardball with Beanie Wells in the 2013 season.

 

[desertdawg]

I don't think that's fair. I hated the pick, and I really hated the hype the last two preseasons. But I like his potential enough that on my fantasy team I traded MoJo Drew and Kenny Britt for him and Julio Jones.

I want Ryan Williams to succeed, because that means that the Arizona Cardinals have a better chance of succeeding. But that doesn't change my opinion that the pick itself was dumb, and Ryan Williams was over-rated as a prospect for reasons that have little to do with on-field performance (a problem that this personnel department and coaching staff had in the past).

I think at this point that we shouldn't expect much from Ryan Williams this year. Young running backs rarely take a few games to "warm up." The best case scenario at this point is probably to hope that he needs a season of game time, practice, and film study to figure out the pro game (not unexpected considering the gimmick offense he played in at Virginia Tech) and expect him to be productive enough that the team can play hardball with Beanie Wells in the 2013 season.

My bad. I'm on record for saying he's gonna be our top back by the end of the season, but my records don't sell.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't think that's fair. I hated the pick, and I really hated the hype the last two preseasons. But I like his potential enough that on my fantasy team I traded MoJo Drew and Kenny Britt for him and Julio Jones.

I want Ryan Williams to succeed, because that means that the Arizona Cardinals have a better chance of succeeding. But that doesn't change my opinion that the pick itself was dumb, and Ryan Williams was over-rated as a prospect for reasons that have little to do with on-field performance (a problem that this personnel department and coaching staff had in the past).

I think at this point that we shouldn't expect much from Ryan Williams this year. Young running backs rarely take a few games to "warm up." The best case scenario at this point is probably to hope that he needs a season of game time, practice, and film study to figure out the pro game (not unexpected considering the gimmick offense he played in at Virginia Tech) and expect him to be productive enough that the team can play hardball with Beanie Wells in the 2013 season.

Johnny Johnson and OJ Anderson both made the pro bowl as rookies. OJA was first team All-Pro.

Maybe Ryan Williams will end up like Garrison Hearst.

Found this link. I didn't know Hearst had a knee problem before the draft and we took him anyway. But then we didn't have instantaneous access to news back then.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/19/sports/sports-people-football-hearst-knee-injury-found.html