Insider 5/31, Lakers/Pistons offseason

F-Dog

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I'm reproducing this second-hand, so pieces may be missing here. Bear with me:

By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider


We're finally a week away from the NBA Finals, and if things go according to plan, both the Lakers and the Pistons will wrap up their berths in the Finals on Monday and Tuesday. Both conference finals have been close enough that it's impossible to completely rule out a Wolves or Pacers comeback, but given their relative playoff inexperience, I think you can start banking on a Lakers-Pistons Finals.

It's 1989 all over again. The new school showtime (courtesy of Celebrity Justice) versus the new school bad boys (led by Big Ben, a guy who would've scared the hell out of Bill Lambeer and Dennis Rodman back in the day).

I won't bother reminding Insider readers that I picked the two teams to meet each other in the Finals at the start of the season and did again just a week before the playoffs again. If I'm staying true to my predictions, then I still have the Lakers winning in seven. Nothing I've seen changes that prediction. The Lakers have proved once again that when Shaq is focused L.A. will beat anyone.

With that said, I think the Pistons are really poised to give the Lakers a real scare. They're the only team in the East with a front line that can do something about Shaq and a backcourt that can handcuff Kobe. In fact, the only other teams in the league that can really make that claim are the Spurs and possibly the Kings. Still, I think that Larry Brown's refusal to get more creative offensively (by giving more playing time to guys like Mehmet Okur) will be the downfall of the Pistons.

Speaking of downfalls, have you ever heard such doomsday talk about two teams competing for an NBA title? Over the past week the Lakers and Pistons have grabbed plenty of headlines, not for what their doing on the court, but for what they might be doing off the court this summer.


If Kobe Bryant wants out of L.A., his options might be limited.

The speculation continues to gather steam in L.A. that Kobe Bryant may want out of there at the end of the season. It already seems like a given the Phil Jackson will be gone. Kobe, lately, looked like he'd be more willing to stay if Phil (and possibly Shaq) were shown the door. However, that was based, in part, on theories that Byron Scott (a close friend of Kobe's) would take over head coaching duties. Scott just took a job in New Orleans, squelching that rumor.

This week, however, the speculation has turned again to Kobe leaving with "sources" close to Kobe telling everyone who will listen that he wants out. Two months ago, the rumor du jour was the Clippers, who have the free-agent money (and possibly the sign-and-trade chips -- Dwight Howard and Quentin Richardson anyone?) to make it happen. Now the high-level chatter in the league claims that it could be the Spurs or the Suns who take home the prize. That will be more difficult to accomplish without Kobe taking a pay cut.

For the Spurs to do it, they'd have to cut loose two valuable free agents -- Manu Ginobili and Hedo Turkoglu. They'd do it to get Kobe, but they'd be awfully thin everywhere else if they go that route. I know several top teams with lots of free-agent money to spend that would love for Ginobili and Turkoglu to be on the market.

For the Suns to get it done, they'd have to ship out their No. 7 pick and at least one big salary (Jahidi White's in the last year of his deal) to get the money they need to sign Kobe. Or, they could try to trade Shawn Marion to a team with cap space or a big man. The Suns are fiscally pretty conservative and probably don't won't both max contracts on their books.

A Marion-for-Mehmet Okur sign-and-trade swap might make sense for both the Suns and the Pistons if Kobe came on board. The Suns could easily slide Joe Johnson over to the three to make that happen. Ironically, moving Marion for cap space would open up enough room for them to sign one more decent free agent in the process.


Any way you look at it, the Lakers, who are now the favorites to win it all, will likely be going through some serious changes this summer. Name the last championship team that faced such significant turnover in the months following its victory.

The Pistons, too, could face some serious changes in the summer. Although their main stars -- Richard Hamilton and Ben Wallace -- are locked up, there continues to be big-time question marks about the futures of both Rasheed Wallace and Mehmet Okur. The Pistons, right now, don't have enough money to sign both. Okur is expected to get a significant offer in free agency this summer from either the Suns (if Kobe falls through), the Jazz or the Nuggets.


Mehmet Okur could soon be on the move.

It's clear that Larry Brown isn't an Okur fan. That has to ruffle Joe Dumars and the Pistons' front office, whom love Okur and want him to be part of the Pistons' future. Brown's treatment of Okur will likely push him out the door, even if the Pistons had the cash to re-sign him.

It's had other residual effects as well. Last year's second first-round pick, Carlos Delfino, told Insider back in May that he was seriously considering staying in Europe another season because he was concerned with how Brown was treating Okur and Darko Milicic. That's a major blow to the Pistons, who believe that Delfino could've played a big role for the Pistons this season.
If the Pistons lose both Okur and Delfino next year, they still have a chance to re-sign Rasheed, but would be arguably weaker at two key positions. That concern will be lightened if Brown decides to let Darko play next year. One theory, in fact, is that the Pistons wouldn't mind losing Okur if it meant that Darko got 15 to 20 minutes a game next year. Everyone in Detroit is still very high on Darko and believes he has more upside than either Okur or Sheed. Ben Wallace recently told the Detroit media that he believes Darko is ready to come in and play an important role on the Pistons next year.

"He's the future," Ben Wallace said. "Anyone can see that."

"He's come a long way since training camp," he added. "We bumped him up a little bit at first, and he'd be looking to the coaches for a whistle. But he got in the weight room, he got stronger and more physical, and pretty soon he was bringing that to the floor, not looking to the coaches for that whistle any more.

"Anybody his age would be frustrated by not playing, especially the No. 2 pick. Especially when you see the one and three picks, LeBron and Carmelo. It's frustrating to spend most of your time waiting. But he's playing behind good players and playing on a winning team. It will make him a great player.
"He's definitely the future of this team. The sky's the limit for him. He just has to relax and play basketball. There's nothing he can't do. He can shoot the ball, post up, dribble, rebound, block shots. I haven't seen anything yet he can't do."

Except, that is, convincing Brown to give him playing time.

However, Darko addresses just one of the Pistons needs next year. They still need more help in the backcourt and another consistent scoring option besides Hamilton. Given that Rasheed is always going to be inconsistent to a degree and isn't getting any younger, could Dumars shock everyone and let both Wallace and Okur go?

Doing so would free up roughly $10 million in cap room to pursue a free agent of Detroit's choosing. If Dumars is able to move Elden Campbell to the Bobcats in the expansion draft, that number swells to $15 million. The fact that the Pistons have a first-class organization and are established might convince a top free agent (read Kobe or Kenyon Martin) to leave his digs for a chance to win it all in the East.

Or, Dumars could use either Okur (to the Suns for Marion?) or Wallace as sign-and-trade bait. As good as Sheed has been this season and as much upside as Okur has, there are better options out there for the Pistons than either Okur or Sheed.

Don't be shocked at all to see Dumars, win or lose this season, to shake it up again this summer.

:shrug:
 

elindholm

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A Marion-for-Mehmet Okur sign-and-trade swap might make sense

:barf: :eek: :eek: :barf: :stupid:

This is probably the worst idea I've heard in a month. I suppose we could debate whether Marion has positive or negative trade value on his current contract, but he's a much better deal at his current salary than Okur would be at $7 million. Give me a break.

Replace an overpaid borderline All-Star with an overpaid soft Euro semi-center? No thank you.

Boy, I hope most of these rumors are wrong. It seems like all of the pundits are trying to hook the Suns up with the likes of Nash, Okur, and Andreisvuzasialocshaoustasnaous. If any of those comes true, I'll be severely disappointed.
 

sunsfn

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Busy busy, just got home......sunsfn


By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider



We're finally a week away from the NBA Finals, and if things go according to plan, both the Lakers and the Pistons will wrap up their berths in the Finals on Monday and Tuesday. Both conference finals have been close enough that it's impossible to completely rule out a Wolves or Pacers comeback, but given their relative playoff inexperience, I think you can start banking on a Lakers-Pistons Finals.

It's 1989 all over again. The new school showtime (courtesy of Celebrity Justice) versus the new school bad boys (led by Big Ben, a guy who would've scared the hell out of Bill Lambeer and Dennis Rodman back in the day).

I won't bother reminding Insider readers that I picked the two teams to meet each other in the Finals at the start of the season and did again just a week before the playoffs again. If I'm staying true to my predictions, then I still have the Lakers winning in seven. Nothing I've seen changes that prediction. The Lakers have proved once again that when Shaq is focused L.A. will beat anyone.

With that said, I think the Pistons are really poised to give the Lakers a real scare. They're the only team in the East with a front line that can do something about Shaq and a backcourt that can handcuff Kobe. In fact, the only other teams in the league that can really make that claim are the Spurs and possibly the Kings. Still, I think that Larry Brown's refusal to get more creative offensively (by giving more playing time to guys like Mehmet Okur) will be the downfall of the Pistons.

Speaking of downfalls, have you ever heard such doomsday talk about two teams competing for an NBA title? Over the past week the Lakers and Pistons have grabbed plenty of headlines, not for what their doing on the court, but for what they might be doing off the court this summer.

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[font=verdana, arial, geneva]If Kobe Bryant wants out of L.A., his options might be limited. [/font]<LI>The speculation continues to gather steam in L.A. that Kobe Bryant may want out of there at the end of the season. It already seems like a given the Phil Jackson will be gone. Kobe, lately, looked like he'd be more willing to stay if Phil (and possibly Shaq) were shown the door. However, that was based, in part, on theories that Byron Scott (a close friend of Kobe's) would take over head coaching duties. Scott just took a job in New Orleans, squelching that rumor.

This week, however, the speculation has turned again to Kobe leaving with "sources" close to Kobe telling everyone who will listen that he wants out. Two months ago, the rumor du jour was the Clippers, who have the free-agent money (and possibly the sign-and-trade chips -- Dwight Howard and Quentin Richardson anyone?) to make it happen. Now the high-level chatter in the league claims that it could be the Spurs or the Suns who take home the prize. That will be more difficult to accomplish without Kobe taking a pay cut.

For the Spurs to do it, they'd have to cut loose two valuable free agents -- Manu Ginobili and Hedo Turkoglu. They'd do it to get Kobe, but they'd be awfully thin everywhere else if they go that route. I know several top teams with lots of free-agent money to spend that would love for Ginobili and Turkoglu to be on the market.

For the Suns to get it done, they'd have to ship out their No. 7 pick and at least one big salary (Jahidi White's in the last year of his deal) to get the money they need to sign Kobe. Or, they could try to trade Shawn Marion to a team with cap space or a big man. The Suns are fiscally pretty conservative and probably don't won't both max contracts on their books.

A Marion-for-Mehmet Okur sign-and-trade swap might make sense for both the Suns and the Pistons if Kobe came on board. The Suns could easily slide Joe Johnson over to the three to make that happen. Ironically, moving Marion for cap space would open up enough room for them to sign one more decent free agent in the process.

Any way you look at it, the Lakers, who are now the favorites to win it all, will likely be going through some serious changes this summer. Name the last championship team that faced such significant turnover in the months following its victory.

<LI>The Pistons, too, could face some serious changes in the summer. Although their main stars -- Richard Hamilton and Ben Wallace -- are locked up, there continues to be big-time question marks about the futures of both Rasheed Wallace and Mehmet Okur. The Pistons, right now, don't have enough money to sign both. Okur is expected to get a significant offer in free agency this summer from either the Suns (if Kobe falls through), the Jazz or the Nuggets.

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[font=verdana, arial, geneva]Mehmet Okur could soon be on the move.[/font]It's clear that Larry Brown isn't an Okur fan. That has to ruffle Joe Dumars and the Pistons' front office, whom love Okur and want him to be part of the Pistons' future. Brown's treatment of Okur will likely push him out the door, even if the Pistons had the cash to re-sign him.



It's had other residual effects as well. Last year's second first-round pick, Carlos Delfino, told Insider back in May that he was seriously considering staying in Europe another season because he was concerned with how Brown was treating Okur and Darko Milicic. That's a major blow to the Pistons, who believe that Delfino could've played a big role for the Pistons this season.

If the Pistons lose both Okur and Delfino next year, they still have a chance to re-sign Rasheed, but would be arguably weaker at two key positions. That concern will be lightened if Brown decides to let Darko play next year. One theory, in fact, is that the Pistons wouldn't mind losing Okur if it meant that Darko got 15 to 20 minutes a game next year. Everyone in Detroit is still very high on Darko and believes he has more upside than either Okur or Sheed. Ben Wallace recently told the Detroit media that he believes Darko is ready to come in and play an important role on the Pistons next year.

"He's the future," Ben Wallace said. "Anyone can see that."

"He's come a long way since training camp," he added. "We bumped him up a little bit at first, and he'd be looking to the coaches for a whistle. But he got in the weight room, he got stronger and more physical, and pretty soon he was bringing that to the floor, not looking to the coaches for that whistle any more.

"Anybody his age would be frustrated by not playing, especially the No. 2 pick. Especially when you see the one and three picks, LeBron and Carmelo. It's frustrating to spend most of your time waiting. But he's playing behind good players and playing on a winning team. It will make him a great player.

"He's definitely the future of this team. The sky's the limit for him. He just has to relax and play basketball. There's nothing he can't do. He can shoot the ball, post up, dribble, rebound, block shots. I haven't seen anything yet he can't do."

Except, that is, convincing Brown to give him playing time.

However, Darko addresses just one of the Pistons needs next year. They still need more help in the backcourt and another consistent scoring option besides Hamilton. Given that Rasheed is always going to be inconsistent to a degree and isn't getting any younger, could Dumars shock everyone and let both Wallace and Okur go?

Doing so would free up roughly $10 million in cap room to pursue a free agent of Detroit's choosing. If Dumars is able to move Elden Campbell to the Bobcats in the expansion draft, that number swells to $15 million. The fact that the Pistons have a first-class organization and are established might convince a top free agent (read Kobe or Kenyon Martin) to leave his digs for a chance to win it all in the East.

Or, Dumars could use either Okur (to the Suns for Marion?) or Wallace as sign-and-trade bait. As good as Sheed has been this season and as much upside as Okur has, there are better options out there for the Pistons than either Okur or Sheed. Don't be shocked at all to see Dumars, win or lose this season, to shake it up again this summer.


:( :(
 

thegrahamcrackr

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elindholm said:
Boy, I hope most of these rumors are wrong. It seems like all of the pundits are trying to hook the Suns up with the likes of Nash, Okur, and Andreisvuzasialocshaoustasnaous. If any of those comes true, I'll be severely disappointed.

I think it would be better for the team as long as we got Kobe. I love Marion, but this is defintiely one of the better ways to dump salary.

I also do not like Okur that much, but I will acknowledge he could grow into a decent to good player. Either way, 2 years down the roud he will either be overpaid by 2 million, or underpaid by 2 million if he gets a deal starting at 7.

This would allow us to keep our pick, and hopefully grab another player. Iguadala could make sense to come in at the 3 as a defensive stopper, since Zarko couldn't guard a chair at this point. Or they could grab Josh Smith ro run with the team or maybe Ben Gordon to shore up the backcourt.

Not to mention the suns would have Jahadi White's 6 million coming off the books the next summer. You never know what kind of trades could become available because of that contract.

It isn't the greatest proposal, but I think it is better than dumping White to the Cats along with the pick.
 

elindholm

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I also do not like Okur that much, but I will acknowledge he could grow into a decent to good player.

Heck, so could Marion. They are only one year apart in age.

It isn't the greatest proposal, but I think it is better than dumping White to the Cats along with the pick.

It's a tough call. Since we're assuming that either move would be done in order to land Bryant, let's look at the two lineups:

Scenario #1
Okur
Stoudemire
Johnson
Bryant
Barbosa
bench includes the #7 pick and White

Scenario #2
Voskuhl
Stoudemire
Marion
Bryant
Johnson
bench includes Barbosa, but no #7 pick and no White

Scenario #2 is a better offensive lineup and at least as good defensively, except at center. So the question then becomes, is Okur's defensive superiority over Voskuhl great enough to make up the difference?

I say no, but it's a valid question.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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What about

JJ
Kobe
Okur
Amare
Lampe


or

JJ
Kobe
Zarko (Didnt someone say he already started to put on mucsle?)
Amare
Okur


Either of those lineups would be pretty good offensivly, and much harder to double off of someone. You couldn't really do a zone against the 1st lineup, since Lampe and Okur would kill you from outside. Same with Zarko and Okur.


I agree it is a very tough call, but I have a feeling both Lampe and Zarko will be much better next season, allowing for more offensive firepower.

I say I would slightly like the Okur lineup better, mostly due ot the pick and Whites contract. The bad part is it focusses a lot on player developement, which only the Suns brass will have a good idea on until next season starts. I guess I would be happy with either lineup, so it gets back to if they sign Kobe, I am satisfied :p
 

elindholm

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What about

JJ
Kobe
Okur
Amare
Lampe


From what I have seen, Okur does not have the quickness to guard SFs. And he certainly doesn't have a SF's game on offense -- it's not like he can create anything off the dribble. So that lineup is a non-starter in my opinion.

Also, Lampe will not leapfrog Voskuhl in the rotation next season. It's just not going to happen.

or

JJ
Kobe
Zarko (Didnt someone say he already started to put on mucsle?)
Amare
Okur


That's a possibility, although it would put a lot of pressure on Okur's interior defense, which hasn't exactly been tested alongside Ben Wallace in Detroit.

For me, the question with Cabarkapa isn't so much his strength -- small forwards, in general, don't really dish out a lot of physical punishment -- as it is his shooting. Marion can be a pretty decent intermediate-range spot-up shooter if he's not responsible for creating, and I think he would benefit a lot from playing alongside Bryant. Cabarkapa hasn't shown me that he has much of a shooting touch.
 

Joe Mama

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Looking at last summer's contracts I don't think there's any chance that Okur is going to get a deal starting at $7 million from anyone. I don't even think the Utah Jazz will give him that much. He may get a little bit over the mid-level exception, but that's it. I can tell you that I will be extremely upset if the Phoenix Suns give him a big contract.

Joe Mama
 
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F-Dog

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Here's the second half of today's insider, regarding the draft:

Andriuskevicius May Pull Out of Draft

By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider

TREVISO, Italy -- It looks like Insider's top-ranked international player might not be in the NBA draft after all. Lithuanian big man Martynas Andriuskevicius shocked people by declaring for the draft at the last minute after claiming earlier that he'd wait another year before testing his draft stock.

Why the sudden change? Andriuskevicius' agent, Herb Rudoy, told Insider that they wanted to pursue a revolutionary course of action. Rudoy has told every NBA team that he'll leave Andriuskevicius in the draft if he's a top-five pick and allowed to return to Lithuania (to work with Arvydas Sabonis) for one more season.

That's pretty revolutionary. Teams have drafted players later in the first round with an eye for keeping them in Europe for another year before. But that's never happened with a lottery pick. Could it happen this year?

Rudoy acknowledges that right now no one is biting. However, representatives from 20 NBA teams are here in Treviso, Italy this week to watch Andriuskevicius at the Reebok Big Man camp. He missed most of the opening day workouts with a bad back, but toward the end of the day put on a sizzling display of shooting and low-post footwork for scouts in the stands. He has the chance to be very good down the road -- possibly a top-three pick next year -- and Rudoy claims he's just giving a team like the Wizards a chance to get on board early.

"The Spurs drafted David Robinson with the No. 1 pick even though they knew he couldn't play for them for several years," Rudoy told Insider. "When a special player like Martynas comes along, sometimes it warrants special circumstances."

With that said, don't be surprised to see Andriuskevicius pull out of the draft. Drafting him and leaving him in Europe for a year will be a tough, tough sell for a top-five team. The only team that could theoretically make that call would be the Suns at No. 7. However, Rudoy told Insider that it was very unlikely he'd leave Andriuskevicius in if he wasn't going in the top five.

Another of Rudoy's clients, Tiago Splitter, could also end up pulling out of the draft. Rudoy is looking for a lottery promise for him. While most scouts agree that Splitter has the talent to be a mid-to-late lottery pick, so far no one has been willing to promise him anything.

If anything, Splitter caught almost every NBA team by surprise. He had a huge buyout with his team in Spain and most teams believed he would stay in Europe at least one more season. However, Rudoy got a buyout agreement with the team for this year and he's anxious to get him to the NBA before it expires.

According to Rudoy, Splitter needs to be drafted somewhere in the top 14 to have enough cash to afford the buyout. Anything less than that and he's out of the draft. Right now Insider has him going No. 16 to the Utah Jazz. The Jazz do have the 14th pick and that might be enough to keep Splitter in.

Speaking of promises, the latest guy to rumored to have a promise is Nevada's Kirk Snyder. Snyder canceled workouts with the Nuggets and Jazz this week, fueling speculation that he has a promise in the lottery.

That's much higher than almost every scout I've talked to over the past six months has Snyder projected. According to several sources at the Treviso camp, Snyder's agent has been telling teams that the promise is in the lottery. Several of the NBA scouts and GMs here told Insider that they believe it's the Blazers who happen to be looking for a two guard.

"Some teams give out promises only with the understanding that the guy quits working out," the source told Insider. "If Synder's comfortable with a team drafting later in the first round, he could be willing to forgo getting drafted higher to make sure he landed in the first round with a team that's a good fit."

Phoenix and the Clips are the two teams at the top that would probably prefer Andriuskevicius to spend a year or two in Europe, if they decide to draft him, so it's natural Phoenix keeps getting linked to AK. If he stays in the draft, there's a decent chance that the Suns are the team paying for his ticket.

I wonder who the Suns sent to Treviso--BC? Was D'Antoni a member of the party?
 
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F-Dog

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As for the Chad Ford idea, it wouldn't be possible on Detroit's side unless they manage to pawn Elden Campbell off to the Bobcats in the expansion draft, then sign Rasheed Wallace to an under-market deal. Since the Suns have to get Kobe to consider this, as well, my guess is that there's not much point in our hashing it over.

Unless you're really bored or something, that is. :)
 

Errntknght

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thegrahamcrackr >>What about

JJ
Kobe
Okur
Amare
Lampe

or

JJ
Kobe
Zarko (Didnt someone say he already started to put on mucsle?)
Amare
Okur <<

One thing about either line up is that the opponents would have a field day scoring against our frontcourt. Lampe and Amare together with a good defender like Shawn is worrisome but throw in Zarko or Okur with them and there's no hope. I've been watching Okur very carefully and the guy has very poor instincts on defense combined with a slow reaction time. He did all right against guys on the baseline when they had little room to maneuver but when they had space to move laterally he couldn't stay with them. That's when they had the ball - off the ball he was beaten more easily. Worst of all he had no sense of defending an area - guys would score right next to him and he didn't make any move to stop them. Lampe has this same failing but he's seven years younger than Okur so there's some hope he'll learn about defending the paint as well as his man.

The more I've watched Okur, the less I'd like to have him on this team - at almost any price.
 

George O'Brien

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I don't care for Okur, but I really, really, really don't like him at $7 million. :bang: (I'm guessing that is about what Camby will be starting at).

At this point I'd rather get Blount, Foyle, or Etan Thomas than Okur - but none of those guys are going to get that kind of money.
 
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