Starting over is Thomas' last resort
By Chad Ford
NBA Insider
Send an Email to Chad Ford Tuesday, December 30
Updated: December 30
9:51 AM ET
Last week, upon word that Isiah Thomas had taken over as president of the Knicks, Insider's advice was simple -- burn the entire team down.
Apparently, we weren't the only ones telling Thomas the obvious. Thomas told reporters this weekend that he talked to four NBA people whom he respects, and all gave him the same advice. "They are all in agreement that the best way to do it is to blow it up," Thomas told the N.Y. Times. "Everyone I've talked to about this situation has given me the advice to start all over and get under the salary cap."
Why such a dour prediction? Because the Knicks aren't close to making the Finals with the group they have. The guys who aren't contributing anything but take up an enormous amount of cap space -- Shandon Anderson, Howard Eisley and Clarence Weatherspoon -- can't be moved. Other players, like Allan Houston and Keith Van Horn, are contributing, but they, too, take up a lot of cap space. Combined, Houston and Van Horn make a little over $29 million this year.
Thomas' only tradeable pieces at the moment are good players with short-term contracts. If he could move guys like Antonio McDyess, Kurt Thomas or Charlie Ward, he might be able to acquire young players and draft picks in return. Thomas then could start rebuilding with a couple of veterans (Houston, Van Horn) and several promising young players (Frank Williams, Michael Sweetney and Maciej Lampe) already in place.
Despite the advice, Thomas claims he won't go in that direction. At least not yet, anyway. "I'm stubborn," Thomas said. "I can't think of an organization that has been saddled with this kind of debt structure that hasn't blown it up and started it all over. I want that to be my last resort, not necessarily my first result."
Thomas already has made a few moves that appear to have paid some dividends. He convinced coach Don Chaney to let Williams take over the point guard duties. Since that decision, the Knicks are 3-0, and Williams is averaging 16.7 ppg and 5 apg on 63 percent shooting from the field.
He cut second-round pick Slavko Vranes, claiming the team doesn't have the patience to develop him. He is working on buying out Weatherspoon's contract; he activated Sweetney (to see what he has); he ripped second-round pick Lampe's work ethic (to light a fire under him, according to Lampe's agent); and he made a hard push to sign troubled forward Eddie Griffin.
Thomas isn't done.
Several NBA GMs told Insider on Monday that Thomas' primary trade bait will be McDyess. McDyess is just now recovering from several knee surgeries. He's averaging 8.9 ppg and 6.7 rpg in 23.7 mpg in 15 games since his return. He's had occasional soreness in his knee, but for the most part he looks like he's playing his way back into shape.
Antonio McDyess
Power Forward
New York Knicks
Profile
2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
15 8.9 6.7 1.1 .471 .576
McDyess makes a lot of money ($13.5 million), but he's in the last year of his contract, making him very attractive to a team trying to get further under the luxury tax. Thomas is looking for a younger, long, athletic center or forward in return (that pretty much counts out Zydrunas Ilgauskas for those of you still in Scott Layden mode).
The Hawks' Theo Ratliff, the Blazers' Rasheed Wallace, the Mavericks' Antawn Jamison and the Bucks' Tim Thomas are Thomas' most likely targets.
Ratliff ranks second in the league in blocks and has just two years left on his contract, making him an attractive fit. The Hawks are in cap-dump mode right now, and Ratliff is expendable.
To get Wallace, Thomas would have to throw Kurt Thomas or Ward into the deal to make the salaries work. The Blazers are desperate to move Wallace but won't take back anything that hurts their cap long term. Would James Dolan, who claims he wanted to clean up the Knicks, really take on Wallace?
Antawn Jamison
Forward
Dallas Mavericks
Profile
2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
29 15.6 6.8 1.1 .508 .774
Jamison is an interesting option. He's locked into a long-term deal and may duplicate what Van Horn does on the court, but Thomas is a fan. The Mavs would insist on getting the draft rights to young point guard Milos Vujanic as part of any deal for Jamison. Given that Thomas hasn't shown any real fondness for international players, will that be a big loss?
Tim Thomas is the most questionable of the group. He's never quite fit into a position with the Bucks, though he is putting up the best numbers of his career this season. The problem for the Knicks is that he's locked in for two more seasons at numbers he just doesn't merit. Moving Thomas for McDyess would put the Bucks well under the cap for next season.
Isiah also is willing to trade Ward now that Williams looks ready to take over, though he's just as willing to cut him by Jan. 15 and get $4 million in cap relief for the team.
Big trades like these don't happen overnight, and most GMs think nothing will happen until next week at the earliest. Thomas is still trying to get a feel for how his players are valued around the league. He's still smarting over the Nets landing Griffin and vows that his most important task is changing the image of the franchise.
"We've got to get our franchise back to the point where players want to come play for the New York Knicks and don't give it a second thought," Thomas told the Times. "There was a time when we would have gotten the phone call, 'Can we come play for you,' as opposed to us having to search and find and beat (the bushes). We've got to get ourselves back to the point as a franchise where people want to come here and play and see this and view this as a very good situation, and that's what we're working on."
Around the League
Knicks chasing Leon? In the meantime, Isiah Thomas is looking under rocks for forgotten players who could help his team. The word out of New York is that Isiah is on the verge of signing the only free agent even more messed up than Eddie Griffin -- Leon Smith -- to a 10-day contract. Smith, a 23-year-old, 6-10, athletic big man, has been playing for the Gary Steelheads in the CBA (14.4 ppg, 10.1 rpg).
Given Smith's history -- he once swallowed a bottle of aspirin, painted his face green, and told police he was an Indian fighting Columbus -- you think Isiah may be reaching a little bit with this one? Makes you wonder if Dennis Rodman and Roy Tarpley aren't far behind.
Artest on the block? One popular theory floating around the league has Thomas doing everything in his power to get his hands on some of his former Pacers -- mainly Jermaine O'Neal, Ron Artest and Jamaal Tinsley. O'Neal is untouchable. Artest was believed to be as well, but his questionable behavior is raising eyebrows again, and there's talk Rick Carlisle might be happier with Artest playing somewhere else.
Ron Artest
Small Forward
Indiana Pacers
Profile
2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
30 17.3 5.5 3.9 .437 .708
Artest was benched for the second half of Saturday night's loss to the Nets for what Carlisle called "conduct detrimental to winning." Artest responded by "sleeping in" for Monday's shoot around. Artest met with Carlisle, Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird on Monday to get the situation under control.
After the meeting, Carlisle and Artest both claimed the incident was behind them, and Carlisle did his best to quash the trade rumors swirling around Artest.
"I think Ron's here. I think Ron's here for the year. I'll put it that way," Carlisle told the Indianapolis Star. "He's too valuable a player. He's an essential part to what we're doing. Much of our system is built around his abilities at both ends of the court. So I don't see us trading him. But I'm not the official word on that. You'd have to talk to Larry Bird or Donnie Walsh. My feeling would be no, and I think we pretty much told him that today."
The problem Thomas faces, if he wants Artest and Tinsley, is coming up with a trade package the Pacers would bite on. Artest and Tinsley are probably available, but they'd come at a high price. Putting together a package of Charlie Ward or Kurt Thomas and Frank Williams won't be enough to get either one.
Silas ready to bench Ilgauskas: The Cavs are still denying they're shopping Zydrunas Ilgauskas about as vehemently as teams are claiming he's being made available at almost any price. Ilgauskas' relationship with coach Paul Silas continues to go downhill, and there's a definite push from the bench for GM Jim Paxson to move Z now while he still has some trade value.
Silas is frustrated by Ilgauskas' lack of quickness and effort on the defensive end. "He has to (play good defense) or he won't play," Silas told the Morning Journal. "It's that simple."
Opposing teams are putting quicker, smaller players on Ilgauskas, creating defensive nightmares for the Cavs. On Sunday, Silas played Z just 10 minutes against the Blazers.
"He's long," Silas said. "He's 7-3. He plays straight up. If he bends his knees, he's quicker. It's hard for him to move and react when guarding players 6-9, 6-10. He's working on it. If he continues to do so, he'll be all right. I've got to win games. I've got to put guys out there to defend their bigs. He's helped us a lot this year. We're looking for guys who are going to be aggressive and get it done. ... With the quickness of the centers we were playing (Sunday), we needed to be quicker."
The Pacers wouldn't mind getting their hands on Ilgauskas, but the players they're willing to give up for him (Scot Pollard, Austin Croshere, Tinsley) won't be enough to convince the Cavs to pull the trigger.
Watson's days in Memphis numbered? After an encouraging start, the Grizzlies continue to descend into hell. The team has lost six straight, coach Hubie Brown experienced a dizzy spell while coaching Sunday night, and point guard Earl Watson is rebelling over being excluded from Brown's new three-guard rotation.
Is a trade involving Watson imminent? He thinks so.
"I've gone from being talented enough to start to not being talented enough to back up Jason (Williams)," Watson told the Memphis Commercial Appeal. "I just have to keep working until I do get put in a different situation, whether it's here or somewhere else. But looking at it, I don't know how long I'll be here. ... Luckily I play for a (general manger) who'll put me in a good situation somewhere else. I just hope he sticks to his past. Until then, I'll keep working to help this team win."
The irony for Watson is that the Grizzlies went 8-2 when Watson was in the starting lineup subbing for an injured Williams. Since Williams' return to regular duty, the team is 0-6. Still, Brown is adamant the combination of Williams, Mike Miller and Bonzi Wells makes more sense for the Grizzlies.
Brown called Williams "a better, talented player" and said the demotion isn't a slight on Watson. "We knew that we'd eventually have to get to this to see if it's going to be a part of how we'll eventually play," Brown said. "We're doing this because of the minutes that are needed for Miller, Wells and Jason Williams. Only time will tell whether that will be a successful part our development as a young team. But we have to look at it."
By Chad Ford
NBA Insider
Send an Email to Chad Ford Tuesday, December 30
Updated: December 30
9:51 AM ET
Last week, upon word that Isiah Thomas had taken over as president of the Knicks, Insider's advice was simple -- burn the entire team down.
Apparently, we weren't the only ones telling Thomas the obvious. Thomas told reporters this weekend that he talked to four NBA people whom he respects, and all gave him the same advice. "They are all in agreement that the best way to do it is to blow it up," Thomas told the N.Y. Times. "Everyone I've talked to about this situation has given me the advice to start all over and get under the salary cap."
Why such a dour prediction? Because the Knicks aren't close to making the Finals with the group they have. The guys who aren't contributing anything but take up an enormous amount of cap space -- Shandon Anderson, Howard Eisley and Clarence Weatherspoon -- can't be moved. Other players, like Allan Houston and Keith Van Horn, are contributing, but they, too, take up a lot of cap space. Combined, Houston and Van Horn make a little over $29 million this year.
Thomas' only tradeable pieces at the moment are good players with short-term contracts. If he could move guys like Antonio McDyess, Kurt Thomas or Charlie Ward, he might be able to acquire young players and draft picks in return. Thomas then could start rebuilding with a couple of veterans (Houston, Van Horn) and several promising young players (Frank Williams, Michael Sweetney and Maciej Lampe) already in place.
Despite the advice, Thomas claims he won't go in that direction. At least not yet, anyway. "I'm stubborn," Thomas said. "I can't think of an organization that has been saddled with this kind of debt structure that hasn't blown it up and started it all over. I want that to be my last resort, not necessarily my first result."
Thomas already has made a few moves that appear to have paid some dividends. He convinced coach Don Chaney to let Williams take over the point guard duties. Since that decision, the Knicks are 3-0, and Williams is averaging 16.7 ppg and 5 apg on 63 percent shooting from the field.
He cut second-round pick Slavko Vranes, claiming the team doesn't have the patience to develop him. He is working on buying out Weatherspoon's contract; he activated Sweetney (to see what he has); he ripped second-round pick Lampe's work ethic (to light a fire under him, according to Lampe's agent); and he made a hard push to sign troubled forward Eddie Griffin.
Thomas isn't done.
Several NBA GMs told Insider on Monday that Thomas' primary trade bait will be McDyess. McDyess is just now recovering from several knee surgeries. He's averaging 8.9 ppg and 6.7 rpg in 23.7 mpg in 15 games since his return. He's had occasional soreness in his knee, but for the most part he looks like he's playing his way back into shape.
Antonio McDyess
Power Forward
New York Knicks
Profile
2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
15 8.9 6.7 1.1 .471 .576
McDyess makes a lot of money ($13.5 million), but he's in the last year of his contract, making him very attractive to a team trying to get further under the luxury tax. Thomas is looking for a younger, long, athletic center or forward in return (that pretty much counts out Zydrunas Ilgauskas for those of you still in Scott Layden mode).
The Hawks' Theo Ratliff, the Blazers' Rasheed Wallace, the Mavericks' Antawn Jamison and the Bucks' Tim Thomas are Thomas' most likely targets.
Ratliff ranks second in the league in blocks and has just two years left on his contract, making him an attractive fit. The Hawks are in cap-dump mode right now, and Ratliff is expendable.
To get Wallace, Thomas would have to throw Kurt Thomas or Ward into the deal to make the salaries work. The Blazers are desperate to move Wallace but won't take back anything that hurts their cap long term. Would James Dolan, who claims he wanted to clean up the Knicks, really take on Wallace?
Antawn Jamison
Forward
Dallas Mavericks
Profile
2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
29 15.6 6.8 1.1 .508 .774
Jamison is an interesting option. He's locked into a long-term deal and may duplicate what Van Horn does on the court, but Thomas is a fan. The Mavs would insist on getting the draft rights to young point guard Milos Vujanic as part of any deal for Jamison. Given that Thomas hasn't shown any real fondness for international players, will that be a big loss?
Tim Thomas is the most questionable of the group. He's never quite fit into a position with the Bucks, though he is putting up the best numbers of his career this season. The problem for the Knicks is that he's locked in for two more seasons at numbers he just doesn't merit. Moving Thomas for McDyess would put the Bucks well under the cap for next season.
Isiah also is willing to trade Ward now that Williams looks ready to take over, though he's just as willing to cut him by Jan. 15 and get $4 million in cap relief for the team.
Big trades like these don't happen overnight, and most GMs think nothing will happen until next week at the earliest. Thomas is still trying to get a feel for how his players are valued around the league. He's still smarting over the Nets landing Griffin and vows that his most important task is changing the image of the franchise.
"We've got to get our franchise back to the point where players want to come play for the New York Knicks and don't give it a second thought," Thomas told the Times. "There was a time when we would have gotten the phone call, 'Can we come play for you,' as opposed to us having to search and find and beat (the bushes). We've got to get ourselves back to the point as a franchise where people want to come here and play and see this and view this as a very good situation, and that's what we're working on."
Around the League
Knicks chasing Leon? In the meantime, Isiah Thomas is looking under rocks for forgotten players who could help his team. The word out of New York is that Isiah is on the verge of signing the only free agent even more messed up than Eddie Griffin -- Leon Smith -- to a 10-day contract. Smith, a 23-year-old, 6-10, athletic big man, has been playing for the Gary Steelheads in the CBA (14.4 ppg, 10.1 rpg).
Given Smith's history -- he once swallowed a bottle of aspirin, painted his face green, and told police he was an Indian fighting Columbus -- you think Isiah may be reaching a little bit with this one? Makes you wonder if Dennis Rodman and Roy Tarpley aren't far behind.
Artest on the block? One popular theory floating around the league has Thomas doing everything in his power to get his hands on some of his former Pacers -- mainly Jermaine O'Neal, Ron Artest and Jamaal Tinsley. O'Neal is untouchable. Artest was believed to be as well, but his questionable behavior is raising eyebrows again, and there's talk Rick Carlisle might be happier with Artest playing somewhere else.
Ron Artest
Small Forward
Indiana Pacers
Profile
2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
30 17.3 5.5 3.9 .437 .708
Artest was benched for the second half of Saturday night's loss to the Nets for what Carlisle called "conduct detrimental to winning." Artest responded by "sleeping in" for Monday's shoot around. Artest met with Carlisle, Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird on Monday to get the situation under control.
After the meeting, Carlisle and Artest both claimed the incident was behind them, and Carlisle did his best to quash the trade rumors swirling around Artest.
"I think Ron's here. I think Ron's here for the year. I'll put it that way," Carlisle told the Indianapolis Star. "He's too valuable a player. He's an essential part to what we're doing. Much of our system is built around his abilities at both ends of the court. So I don't see us trading him. But I'm not the official word on that. You'd have to talk to Larry Bird or Donnie Walsh. My feeling would be no, and I think we pretty much told him that today."
The problem Thomas faces, if he wants Artest and Tinsley, is coming up with a trade package the Pacers would bite on. Artest and Tinsley are probably available, but they'd come at a high price. Putting together a package of Charlie Ward or Kurt Thomas and Frank Williams won't be enough to get either one.
Silas ready to bench Ilgauskas: The Cavs are still denying they're shopping Zydrunas Ilgauskas about as vehemently as teams are claiming he's being made available at almost any price. Ilgauskas' relationship with coach Paul Silas continues to go downhill, and there's a definite push from the bench for GM Jim Paxson to move Z now while he still has some trade value.
Silas is frustrated by Ilgauskas' lack of quickness and effort on the defensive end. "He has to (play good defense) or he won't play," Silas told the Morning Journal. "It's that simple."
Opposing teams are putting quicker, smaller players on Ilgauskas, creating defensive nightmares for the Cavs. On Sunday, Silas played Z just 10 minutes against the Blazers.
"He's long," Silas said. "He's 7-3. He plays straight up. If he bends his knees, he's quicker. It's hard for him to move and react when guarding players 6-9, 6-10. He's working on it. If he continues to do so, he'll be all right. I've got to win games. I've got to put guys out there to defend their bigs. He's helped us a lot this year. We're looking for guys who are going to be aggressive and get it done. ... With the quickness of the centers we were playing (Sunday), we needed to be quicker."
The Pacers wouldn't mind getting their hands on Ilgauskas, but the players they're willing to give up for him (Scot Pollard, Austin Croshere, Tinsley) won't be enough to convince the Cavs to pull the trigger.
Watson's days in Memphis numbered? After an encouraging start, the Grizzlies continue to descend into hell. The team has lost six straight, coach Hubie Brown experienced a dizzy spell while coaching Sunday night, and point guard Earl Watson is rebelling over being excluded from Brown's new three-guard rotation.
Is a trade involving Watson imminent? He thinks so.
"I've gone from being talented enough to start to not being talented enough to back up Jason (Williams)," Watson told the Memphis Commercial Appeal. "I just have to keep working until I do get put in a different situation, whether it's here or somewhere else. But looking at it, I don't know how long I'll be here. ... Luckily I play for a (general manger) who'll put me in a good situation somewhere else. I just hope he sticks to his past. Until then, I'll keep working to help this team win."
The irony for Watson is that the Grizzlies went 8-2 when Watson was in the starting lineup subbing for an injured Williams. Since Williams' return to regular duty, the team is 0-6. Still, Brown is adamant the combination of Williams, Mike Miller and Bonzi Wells makes more sense for the Grizzlies.
Brown called Williams "a better, talented player" and said the demotion isn't a slight on Watson. "We knew that we'd eventually have to get to this to see if it's going to be a part of how we'll eventually play," Brown said. "We're doing this because of the minutes that are needed for Miller, Wells and Jason Williams. Only time will tell whether that will be a successful part our development as a young team. But we have to look at it."
