Insider - updated top 15 P.F.

sunsfn

Registered User
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Posts
4,522
Reaction score
0
2003 NBA Draft: Top 15 power forwards
By Chad Ford
NBA Insider


Updated June 12 What do Malik Allen, Othella Harrington, Christian Laettner, Tyson Chandler, Carlos Boozer, Jerome Williams, Eddie Griffin, Paul Gasol, Donnell Harvey, Troy Murphy, Elton Brand, Shareef Abdur Rahim and Reggie Evans all have in common?


They were the starting power forwards for the 13 teams that landed in the lottery for this year's NBA Draft. They all have something else in common, too. They are A) very good but lack much of a supporting cast (Brand, Abdur Rahim); B) still too young to carry a team (Gasol, Murphy, Griffin, Chandler, Boozer); or, C) they have no business getting floor time outside of shoot arounds (the rest).

Now compare that list with this one:

Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowtizki, Kevin Garnett, Chris Webber, Rasheed Wallace, Amare Stoudemire, Karl Malone, Jermaine O'Neal, Ben Wallace, Antoine Walker, Kenyon Martin, Drew Gooden, Derrick Coleman, P. J. Brown, Anthony Mason and Samaki Walker.

With the exception of the Lakers, every team in the playoffs this season has a big-time power forward. While they range from All-Star to pretty good, there's no question that having a big forward makes a big difference.

"Everyone talks about the disparity between the West and the East, but it really comes down to the power forwards," one Eastern Conference GM told Insider. "The West has a bunch of good ones, the East has three or four. And none of them are on par with the Garnetts, Duncans and Webbers of the West."

The Lakers were the only team in the West that made it to the playoffs without an All-Star caliber power forward. In the East, Abdur Rahim was the only decent power forward left out of the playoffs. The big guys matter, folks.

That's why teams go nuts over power players in the draft. Last year, six power forwards were drafted in the lottery. In 2001, the first three picks were power forwards, and nine overall were taken in Round 1.

Teams still can't get enough. The good news is that, without question, this is one of the deepest drafts ever at the power forward position. As many as 15 power players have a shot at getting drafted in Round 1.

They range from versatile players like Darko Milicic, to Garnett clones like Chris Bosh, to squatty power players like Mike Sweetney to mysterious international players like Sofoklis Schortsanitis. Like the rest of the draft, an influx of young international players is swelling the depth at the position.

Here's a look at the Top 15 power forwards in the 2003 NBA Draft.

Also see: Top 10 C | Top 15 SF | Top 15 SG | Top 15 PG | Top 15 International

Note: The list includes all players who have declared 2003 draft. An asterisk (*) by a player's name indicates he is either a college underclassman who has not hired an agent or an under 22 international player who can withdraw his name before the June 19th deadline.

1. Darko Milicic, Yugoslavia
The line: 7-1, 253, 17 years old
The skinny: His workout for the Pistons blew Joe Dumars and Co. away. His athleticism, strength, agility and work ethic are all of the charts. Darko's aggressiveness on the court is what really has the Pistons smiling. Unlike most Euros who hop the pond, Milicic won't be pushed around. In fact, come training camp time, he'll probably be pushing back.

2. Chris Bosh, Georgia Tech*
The line: 6-10, 219, Freshman
The skinny: Scouts use Garnett and even Tim Duncan as comparisons when discussing Bosh. That is, with one major exception. Bosh's 49 percent shooting from beyond the 3-point line has everyone giddy. He's a very smooth player. Seems equally comfortable facing the basket or playing on the block. Has above-average athleticism. He's a quick leaper and runs the floor extremely well. Has some nice moves in the paint, including a sweet turn-around jumper right around the block. Has a soft touch on shots. Has great shot selection. He's not afraid to fight for position down low and seems to have a knack for rebounding. He plays with aggressiveness on the defensive end. He's very intelligent, gets along well with his teammates and is a model citizen off the court. He needs to get stronger. He'd be a much better rebounder and defender if he added 20 pounds of muscle. He's a bit of project, but he's probably a lock for the top five.

3. Michael Sweetney, Georgetown*
The line: 6-8, 260, Junior
The skinny: Sweetney's a beast in the paint. He averaged 22.8 points and 10.4 rebounds on 55 percent shooting this season for the Hoyas. Sweetney is comfortable playing with his back to the basket and often evokes comparisons to Elton Brand. His other big plus is that he gets to the free throw line and actually makes his shots. Sweetney averaged almost 10 free-throw attempts per game this season and shot 74 percent from the line. The downside is that he's not a great athlete, and most scouts feel he's a bit undersized to play the position. His 7-foot-1 wingspan helps things a bit. He could go as high as No. 8 to the Bucks or as low as No. 12 to the Sonics.

4. Nick Collison, Kansas
The line: 6-10, 255, Senior
The skinny: Collison is hard-working, fundamentally sound and an intelligent player. He's very crafty under the basket. Uses angles and good footwork to get lots of easy baskets. Has decent strength and a nice mid-range jumper. Can step out and hit a 3 when he needs to. He's a good rebounder and above-average shot blocker, and he plays tough, aggressive defense. His only real weakness is a lack of athleticism. He's a bit slow-footed and doesn't possess the quickness to guard many of the elite power forwards in the NBA. Collison won't be a star at the next level, but scouts think he could be a solid role player, like Shane Battier. His workouts have been solid, but a few teams raised their eyebrows when he only lifted the 185 pound bar only four times. Still, he could go as high as No. 14 to the Sonics or as low as No. 24 to the Lakers.

5. Brian Cook, Illinois
The line: 6-10, 240, Senior
The skinny: Cook has a great all-around game for someone his size. He's very skilled and is now equally comfortable in the post and on the perimeter. He spent most of his first three years hanging out on the perimeter, shooting jumpers. This season he's been a beast in the paint. He's strong enough now to back down his defender. He's also got a sweet turnaround jumper that's close to unstoppable because of his length. Outside, his range extends beyond the 3-point line. The problem is that teams have questions about Cook's stability. He underachieved for three years at Illinois before coming on strong this year. Teams still question his toughness and mental maturity. He's got a lottery-type game. But his other issues probably will slide him into the late first round. His stock is all over the board. He could go as high as No. 14 or slip into the second round.

6. Anderson Varejao, Brazil*
The line: 6-10, 235, 20 years old
The skinny: He's slipping. The lastest word from Chicago was the he was seriously considering pulling his name out of the draft. Few teams have a good handle on him and his play at the Euroleague Final 4 didn't help him. If you're an optimist, you say that the fact that he got playing time in two key games is evidence that he's a legit player. If you're a pessimist, you look at the stat line and ask, what's the big deal? Now that the Euroleague season is over, Varejao isn't playing at all. Teams get excited about his rebounding, shot blocking and aggressive play. Others claim he's a tweener. He's not physical enough to thrive in the post in the NBA, and his game isn't developed enough on the offensive end to play small forward. If he could work out with teams, he'd probably move back into the lottery. But because of Barcelona's playoff schedule, he won't be able to go through private workouts. Right now he's looking at No. 18 through No. 28. I expect they'll try again next year.

7. Sofoklis Schortsanitis, Greece*
The line: 6-10, 313, 17 years old
The skinny: Nicknamed Baby Shaq by his teammates in Greece, he's very strong and capable of playing with his back to the basket. He's pretty athletic and has put up decent numbers for a 17-year-old playing in one of the top leagues in Europe. His stock has dropped lately as teams question his size. Now that he's in the U.S. and working out, a lot of that nonsense will stop. The Grizzlies measured him at 6-foot-10 with shoes (6-8 3/4 without). He has a 7-foot-2 wingspan which helps him as well. Workouts will be big for him. If he projects to be like Elton Brand, he could move as high as No. 14 to the Sonics . He probably won't slip past No. 24 to the Lakers.

8. Zaur Pachulia, Georgia*
The line: 6-11, 260, 19 years old
The skinny: A former teammate of Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Pachulia is more of a classic low-post banger. He's strong, likes to mix it up down low and is an excellent rebounder. Pachulia actually threw his name into the draft last season and wowed several teams, including the Pacers. He was considered a late-first-round pick last year. Pachulia's agent felt that he'd be better off waiting a year to get Pachulia more exposure. After a slow season in Turkey playing behind the Euroleague MVP, Joe Blair, Pachulia finally got his chance a month ago when Blair went down with an injury. He responded with 26 points on 10 of 13 shooting and added eight rebounds, three assists and three steals in a huge win over defending Euroleague champ Panathinaikos. The game wasn't a fluke. He followed it up with a 13-point, 17-rebound performance against Skipper Bologna. He's probably a late-first-rounder.

9. Malick Badiane, Senegal*
The line: 6-11, 235, 19 years old
The skinny: Badiane had a big workout in Chicago that certainly helped his stock. He's one of the strongest, most athletic big men in the draft. He is an above-average defender, strong rebounder and a great shot blocker. He runs the floor like a guard and is an explosive leaper. He has a soft shooting touch and his range extends out to 15 feet. Of all of the young, African prospects to come to the NBA in the last 20 years, two NBA scouts claim Badiane has the most offensive potential of any since Hakeem Olajuwon. He's a late first rounder.

10. Mario Austin, Mississippi State
The line: 6-9, 260, Junior
The skinny: Is Austin an undersized power forward? According to one team that worked out Austin before the camp, he measured 6-9¼ with shoes. He also had trimmed his body fat to 8 percent and looked to be in the best shape of his career. So what gives? Teams still are worried about his athleticism, his face-the-basket game and his effort. At times during his career, he wouldn't even cross half court on the offensive end. He looks a second rounder right now, but he probably should be ranked higher. Could Austin be this year's Carlos Boozer?

11. Travis Outlaw, Mississippi*
The line: 6-9, 210, HS Senior
The skinny: Outlaw is one of the best athletes in the draft, but his fragile frame, lack of a perimeter game, and questionable court IQ have scouts scratching their heads. He needs three to four years of development before he'll be ready to dominate at the power forward position in the pros. Is anyone willing to wait that long? Doesn't have the upside of a Jonathan Bender (who at least could shoot the ball) or an Ndudi Ebi (who plays aggressive defense). Someone could take him on as a project, but his stock will be much higher if he goes to school for a few years.

12. Szymon Szewczyk, Poland*
The line: 6-11, 225, 21 years old
The skinny: He's a top notch prospect who is just now coming onto some NBA radar screens. He's an excellent athlete, can play multiple positions on the floor, shoots the ball well, and has a nice array of moves around the basket. To top it off, he was playing with bright orange hair when I saw him in Barcelona. He needs to add weigth and strength, and his defense needs work, but he'll go high in the second round if he keeps his name in the draft.

13. Jerome Beasley, North Dakota
The line: 6-10, 235, Senior
The skinny: Beasley burst onto the scene in April, grabbing MVP honors at the Portsmouth Invitational. Beasley played in the championship game and scored 15 points on 7-of-8 shooting. He also grabbed 10 rebounds. He ended the tournament averaging 14 ppg and 8.3 rpg on 54 percent shooting from the field. He played well in Chicago, but didn't have the dominant camp he had at Portsmouth. Beasley's size, combined with his perimeter game, give him an outside shot of sneaking into the first round, but most likely he'll be a steal in Round 2.

14. Rick Rickert, Minnesota
The line: 6-10, 215, Sophomore
The skinny: His workouts haven't been going well. Teams are dubbing him a "tweener." Rickert has the size and fundamentals teams like in a player. But his lack of athleticism and strength are hurting him. Like Cabarkapa, he doesn't have the bulk to guard big men in the post, and he lacks the quickness to guard guys on the perimeter. He'll need a couple of years in the weight room before he's ready to produce.

15. Josh Powell, North Carolina State*
The line: 6-9, 227, Sophomore
The skinny: Powell had a terrible camp and his stock really dropped. Right now he's a big time tweener. His game is more developed in the low post, but he doesn't have the size or strength to play there. He doesn't have a good enough shot on the perimeter. He says he's not going back to school. It will be a mistake. Right now he's firmly planted in the second round.

Others to watch: Chris Massie, Memphis; Ron Slay, Tennessee; Boyko Mladenov, Bulgaria; Will McDonald, South Florida; Brandon Hunter, Ohio University; Robert Jackson, Marquette; Matt Bonner, Florida; Sam Hoskin, DePaul; Uche Nsonwu-Amadi, Wyoming; Sani Ibrahim, CSI (Idaho) CC

:thumbup:
 
OP
OP
S

sunsfn

Registered User
Joined
Oct 3, 2002
Posts
4,522
Reaction score
0
mark1 said,

David West isn't even mentioned?
---------------------------------------------

He had him listed in small forwards before.

There is not an update on the small forwards yet.......

:thumbup:
 

Chris_Sanders

Not Always The Best Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
40,404
Reaction score
32,086
Location
Scottsdale, Az
That's because Zarko will be in the small forwards.
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,115
Reaction score
6,551
David West is a pf and a very good one. He measured 6-9 1/2 at the combine (in shoes) and has an incredible 7-4 1/2 wingspan.

For you old time Suns fans, he's an inch taller than Oliver Miller and has a wider wingspan and he doesn't come with all the excess--er--baggage.

This guy has delivered in college, has the athleticism and strength to play in the NBA, but is being overlooked because foriegn players and high schoolers are the rage.

I'm not sure he's the guy we should draft, but he certainly is being overlooked. Maybe he's the reason reports are out that the Suns are trying to deal for a second pick in this draft.
 

Joe Mama

Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,501
Reaction score
964
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Originally posted by JCSunsfan
David West is a pf and a very good one. He measured 6-9 1/2 at the combine (in shoes) and has an incredible 7-4 1/2 wingspan.

For you old time Suns fans, he's an inch taller than Oliver Miller and has a wider wingspan and he doesn't come with all the excess--er--baggage.

This guy has delivered in college, has the athleticism and strength to play in the NBA, but is being overlooked because foriegn players and high schoolers are the rage.

I'm not sure he's the guy we should draft, but he certainly is being overlooked. Maybe he's the reason reports are out that the Suns are trying to deal for a second pick in this draft.

I agree. I definitely would not be disappointed with David West at #17. He was arguably the best player in college basketball last season. I worried about him even able to play in the NBA, but at that size he could definitely be a contributor off the bench.

Joe Mama
 

Joe Mama

Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,501
Reaction score
964
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Originally posted by Chaplin
Wouldn't West be kinda like Brian Cook without the mental questions?

Brian Cook might have a better outside, facing the basket again. That said, David West seems to have a better head on his shoulders and his inside game is much better than Cook's. He's also a better rebounder.

Well, that was easy enough. Chap, you've convinced me that David West is the Phoenix Suns Man. I'm sure I'll change my mind several more times over the next couple of weeks before the draft however. :)

Joe Mama
 

mark1

Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2002
Posts
457
Reaction score
0
Malick Badiane

Is a guy I would look at very closely. He is raw, but very athletic, can rebound and block shots. Unfortunately, his stock is rising alot, and probably won't be there at 17. I like the comparisons to Amare.
 

jbeecham

ASFN Addict
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Posts
6,250
Reaction score
583
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I haven't seen Badaine compared to Amare, but I have heard that he's a lot like Nene Hilario. I'd be happy if the Suns brought him in for a workout soon. I wanted Hilario last year. I'm glad we got Stoudemire of course, but I wish we could have both. If we went with Badaine then we might have something close and we would definately have the most athletic frontcourt in the league with Marion, Amare & Malick.

I'm also still interested in Zarko. Mostly because he can play 3 positions on the roster, but he does sound like a more talented Dan Langhi and that scares me a lot. Malick Badaine would be a PF/C only and we'd still have a big hole at backup SF which would lead to more small ball (which we'd probably play anyways even if we had a 6'11 SF backup that was good because he'd be playing C).
 
Last edited:

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,466
Reaction score
16,995
Location
Round Rock, TX
Originally posted by jbeecham
I haven't seen Badaine compared to Amare, but I have heard that he's a lot like Nene Hilario. I'd be happy if the Suns brought him in for a workout soon. I wanted Hilario last year. I'm glad we got Stoudemire of course, but I wish we could have both. If we went with Badaine then we might have something close and we would definately have the most athletic frontcourt in the league with Marion, Amare & Malick.

I'm also still interested in Zarko. Mostly because he can play 3 positions on the roster, but he does sound like a more talented Dan Langhi and that scares me a lot. Malick Badaine would be a PF/C only and we'd still have a big hole at backup SF which would lead to more small ball (which we'd probably play anyways even if we had a 6'11 SF backup that was good because he'd be playing C).
That's pretty much where I'm at too, Jim. You've pretty much summed up my top 2 that I'm interested in checking out. (That's not to say I'm not open to others--these 2 are just the most intriguing to me)
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,561
Reaction score
9,856
Location
L.A. area
but he does sound like a more talented Dan Langhi and that scares me a lot.

Langhi would have been fine if he really could shoot. In general, I don't have a problem with a lanky 6' 11" combo forward who doesn't have a lot of brawn but can be effective from the perimeter. He wouldn't help the Suns' weak interior defense, but it's possible that no good solution to that problem will be available at #17. So, if they wind up with a competent backup forward -- which Langhi never was -- I'll be happy.

On a vaguely related note, I'm very disappointed to read that the Suns will try to bring Scott Williams back. If he's such a great clubhouse influence, just make him an assistant coach. It would probably be cheaper and it would keep him off the floor. I admire the player that he used to be, but he just doesn't have it any more. The Suns need serious help at center, and if they're keeping all three from last year, then that apparently means they aren't going to look much further.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,466
Reaction score
16,995
Location
Round Rock, TX
Originally posted by elindholm

On a vaguely related note, I'm very disappointed to read that the Suns will try to bring Scott Williams back. If he's such a great clubhouse influence, just make him an assistant coach. It would probably be cheaper and it would keep him off the floor. I admire the player that he used to be, but he just doesn't have it any more. The Suns need serious help at center, and if they're keeping all three from last year, then that apparently means they aren't going to look much further.

Well, depending on who we draft, I guess it's a possibility that Scott Williams (with Alton and Randy probably gone) will be candidate #1 for the Injured List on opening day.
 

mark1

Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2002
Posts
457
Reaction score
0
Sorry if this has been posted already. This guy sounds like a stud. With him Amare and Marion, we would have a young, very athletic front line. This is the guy I want.

Here's the Insider on Badiane.

2:30 p.m., University Illinois Chicago
A few wrong turns get us to the gym after Badiane's workout has begun.

The difference in the atmosphere is palpable the minute we enter the room. Badiane is grunting and growling. His trainer, Eric Lichter, is putting him through a strenuous drill. Badiane is going full speed.

He's pounding the ball with every dribble. He's clawing, scratching out every drill. He takes the ball at the top of the key, takes one dribble and throws down a huge dunk. He does it again. And again. And again.

For the first time all day, I can smell the sweat in the gym.

Badiane is an impressive physical specimen. He's a 19-year old, 6-foot-11, 234-pound power forward with a 7-foot-41⁄2 wing span and a 321⁄2-inch vertical jump. His body is already ripped, and his frame suggests he could easily bulk up to 250 without losing any speed or agility.

At one point Lichter takes a huge cord that looks like a giant rubber band, ties one end around his waist and the other around Badiane's waist. He then tells Badiane to attack the basket and dunk the ball. As Badiane fights to get there, Lichter is pulling the band in the opposite direction.

Badiane is grunting with each fierce dunk.

"Again!" Lichter shouts as he yanks the cord. Badiane jumps, Lichter pulls. Badiane stretches toward the rim, Lichter keeps pulling.

About 40 NBA scouts and GMs are in the gym. None of them are talking to each other. They're all staring, jaws agape.

"I told you," the international scout said. "That is an NBA workout. He just earned himself a lot of bread."

If Badiane had been on the court with Ebi and Villanueva, he would have killed them both.

"Right now, the international players are hungrier," another scout continues. "They really want it. Over in Europe (Badiane plays for a team in Germany), the conditions still aren't always great. You never know when or if you're getting paid. The facilities aren't that great, and the money isn't very good. You don't play to have seven Bentleys in your garage. You play because it's your passion."

Two NBA scouts in the gym have followed Badiane for years. One claims he should be a top 15 pick in the draft. The other won't go that far but does insist he's a lock for the first round.

"Where are you going to find that combination of power and athleticism?" the scout said. "I hate comparisons, but how different is he from Amare Stoudemire in terms of strength and desire? I don't think there's that big a gap."

Another assistant GM walks up to me, smiles and sums up the last 45 minutes. "It looks like you've stumbled onto another goldmine."

Here's the book on Badiane according to several experts in African scouting who know him intimately. He's one of the strongest, most athletic big men in the draft. He is an above-average defender, strong rebounder and a great shot blocker. He runs the floor like a guard and is an explosive leaper. He has a soft shooting touch and his range extends out to 15 feet. Of all of the young, African prospects to come to the NBA in the last 20 years, both scouts claim Badiane has the most offensive potential of any since Hakeem Olajuwon.

Lichter has another comparison that seems to fit. "He reminds me a lot of Nene," said Lichter, who trained Nene Hilaro last summer. "They're both as strong as an ox. Nene is a more talented physical prospect, but Malick is much more skilled around the basket than Nene was when he came over. Badiane is very swift, which is kind of amazing considering how powerful his legs really are. He's got awesome power from his base."

Lichter has helped Badiane improve on his raw ability. He has him working in a sand pit in Cleveland, mimicking NBA moves in sand to increase his strength and explosiveness. In five weeks, Badiane has gained 17 pounds -- all of it muscle.


After the workout, Nuggets GM Kiki Vandeweghe shows Badiane a few moves in the block. He's shaking his head and smiling widely as he walks away.

Badiane is just happy to be here. "I just wanted to work hard and show the NBA what they would be getting if they drafted me," he told Insider. "I've been working very hard and I'll keep working hard if they choose to draft me."

Badiane has plenty of experience against top competition. He played well at the Global Games in Dallas last summer (and held his own against Darko Milicic), and he impressed people at the ABCD camp for high schoolers.

When asked who is favorite NBA player is, he smiles and says Ben Wallace. "I love to play defense like he does. I just want to be strong, grab every rebound and block every shot."

He only has one caveat on that comparison. "But I will score the ball too."

Most scouts have assumed Badiane will be taken by the Mavs at No. 29. But based on what we saw on Thursday, Badiane probably won't be on the board that long.
 

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
Originally posted by Joe Mama
I agree. I definitely would not be disappointed with David West at #17. He was arguably the best player in college basketball last season. I worried about him even able to play in the NBA, but at that size he could definitely be a contributor off the bench.

Joe Mama

Arguably better than a freshman stud putting up huge numbers and leading a team pretty much out of nowhere to the championship?:p

Anthony, Ford, Wade those 3 guys were definately better than West.
 

Joe Mama

Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,501
Reaction score
964
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Somewhere on Inside the other day I read that Badiane's other work out was not nearly as impressive.

I wish I could find a place that listed all of the measurements from Chicago. Last year they put it all up on InsideHoops, and it was a nice resource.

Joe Mama
 
Top