Interesting Comment

[Harry]

Todd McShay just released his new prospect ranking. His top ranked OT is Andrew Thomas at 11. Moreover, he made this telling comment, “His game is raw, but the athleticism and potential are there.” This was what I was talking about when I said replacing Humphries with a rookie would just endanger Murray. Better to do this when Murray’s got more experience and the rest of the offense is set.

 

[kerouac9]

How many times to we have to learn that talent is no substitute for polish when it comes to offensive linemen? If you have a professional offensive line, then you can put a rookie in there and have it be successful. If you are expecting your rookie to come in and be your best offensive lineman, you're putting your most valuable asset in extreme danger.

 

[Solar7]

Todd McShay just released his new prospect ranking. His top ranked OT is Andrew Thomas at 11. Moreover, he made this telling comment, “His game is raw, but the athleticism and potential are there.” This was what I was talking about when I said replacing Humphries with a rookie would just endanger Murray. Better to do this when Murray’s got more experience and the rest of the offense is set.

We can say this every year, but when do we actually pull the trigger on someone?

I suppose this is all in context of what we do with Humphries and if he's franchise tagged, but I'm not sure why an older Kyler Murray is better at having to use his feet to escape the pressure created by an inexperienced tackle than a younger one is.

Maybe I need to go back and watch the season broken down by snap, and my overall feeling is wrong, but it always seemed to me like Kyler was spooked by the pressure, his mechanics got sloppy, and therefore the offense could never really get into a rhythm, and none of that was his fault.

 

[Chopper0080]

How many times to we have to learn that talent is no substitute for polish when it comes to offensive linemen? If you have a professional offensive line, then you can put a rookie in there and have it be successful. If you are expecting your rookie to come in and be your best offensive lineman, you're putting your most valuable asset in extreme danger.

It is why I would be ok picking up Murray's RFA contract or just extending him and then drafting Wirfs (or Wills or Thomas). The next RT can earn his spot instead of just being thrown to the wolves. (though honestly, if a top 10 OT can't beat out Murray, we got issues.)

 

[WildBB]

How many times to we have to learn that talent is no substitute for polish when it comes to offensive linemen? If you have a professional offensive line, then you can put a rookie in there and have it be successful. If you are expecting your rookie to come in and be your best offensive lineman, you're putting your most valuable asset in extreme danger.

The OL got better as the year progressed and finished at least league average if not somewhat above.
You seem to be saying two different things here. Are you advocating moving on from DJ and drafting and/or FA as replacment?

 

[WildBB]

Todd McShay just released his new prospect ranking. His top ranked OT is Andrew Thomas at 11. Moreover, he made this telling comment, “His game is raw, but the athleticism and potential are there.” This was what I was talking about when I said replacing Humphries with a rookie would just endanger Murray. Better to do this when Murray’s got more experience and the rest of the offense is set.

Are you willing to go 15-16M annually for 5 yrs. 55-60M guaranteed? That's about what it'll take. You trust his durability?

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

They may consider Thomas to be raw, but he's very talented. It would be cheaper letting Humphries walk & draft Thomas but would the cheaper route be the best one? Money wise it would give us another 15 million or so to sign a few more players because we have so many holes. I just don't know if letting Humphries walk would be the best route though? For all we know, he may end up leaving anyway, if he gets a better offer? If Humphries isn't tagged & leaves, we had better hope Thomas makes it to #8? Otherwise we'll end up with no LT & SK will end up overpaying for one in FA that has an injury history. That will suck. I kind of feel like a lot of others do, tag him for the 2020 season, pay him the 15 million & see if he stays healthy? Then sign him to a longer deal once he's stayed healthy for 2 seasons in a row.

 

[pinetopred]

They may consider Thomas to be raw, but he's very talented. It would be cheaper letting Humphries walk & draft Thomas but would the cheaper route be the best one? Money wise it would give us another 15 million or so to sign a few more players because we have so many holes. I just don't know if letting Humphries walk would be the best route though? For all we know, he may end up leaving anyway, if he gets a better offer? If Humphries isn't tagged & leaves, we had better hope Thomas makes it to #8? Otherwise we'll end up with no LT & SK will end up overpaying for one in FA that has an injury history. That will suck. I kind of feel like a lot of others do, tag him for the 2020 season, pay him the 15 million & see if he stays healthy? Then sign him to a longer deal once he's stayed healthy for 2 seasons in a row.

Yep easy no wait he will be pissed being tagged and would never play oh well it's way to early I will worry next month

 

[slanidrac16]

The game will slow down for Kyler and the rest of the offense will be coming back to a familiar offense. That is why I’m content to keep this offense as intact as we possibly can.

We do not have enough cap space to sign 3 or 4 big splash free agentsbut I think we can sign 2 and then 2 top second tier free agents( all defense) along with the current players we want back.

That would include Humphries, Murray, Drake and Cooper. I think if we do this we can truly take the BPA in the draft.

One other thing. Anybody we draft should be consider part of the 2021 plan. We may get a player in the first round that could contribute but should not be expected to be a cornerstone from the get go especially an o- lineman. Yes there are about 5 players that will be available that could. Okudah, Simmons, Lamb , Juedy or Brown probably would contribute. One of these probably will be there at 8, so there’s that to look forward to.

 

[Krangodnzr]

They may consider Thomas to be raw, but he's very talented. It would be cheaper letting Humphries walk & draft Thomas but would the cheaper route be the best one? Money wise it would give us another 15 million or so to sign a few more players because we have so many holes. I just don't know if letting Humphries walk would be the best route though? For all we know, he may end up leaving anyway, if he gets a better offer? If Humphries isn't tagged & leaves, we had better hope Thomas makes it to #8? Otherwise we'll end up with no LT & SK will end up overpaying for one in FA that has an injury history. That will suck. I kind of feel like a lot of others do, tag him for the 2020 season, pay him the 15 million & see if he stays healthy? Then sign him to a longer deal once he's stayed healthy for 2 seasons in a row.

Penny wise and pound foolish.

Even good rookie offensive linemen are going to get beat in ways a 5 year veteran doesnt.

 

[WildBB]

Penny wise and pound foolish.

Even good rookie offensive linemen are going to get beat in ways a 5 year veteran doesnt.

That's IF he can stay out on the field.

 

[BritCard]

Todd McShay just released his new prospect ranking. His top ranked OT is Andrew Thomas at 11. Moreover, he made this telling comment, “His game is raw, but the athleticism and potential are there.” This was what I was talking about when I said replacing Humphries with a rookie would just endanger Murray. Better to do this when Murray’s got more experience and the rest of the offense is set.

I wouldn't take what Todd McShay says as being accurate.

Thomas has 42 starts and has allowed 36 pressures in 1080 pass blocking snaps in his career.

If that's raw I'd love to see him when he's warmed up.

 

[overseascardfan]

Keep it up McShay so Thomas drops to us. Thomas is more highly regarded than Humphries was, hell Humphries wasn’t considered a first round pick until a month or two before draft. Even if Thomas comes in and has the same season as Humphries just did (2 sacks, 13 penalties and sub 70 PFF grade), if he plays all 16 games and we save $10M+ on the contract difference then sign me up.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Too many of these kids are coming into the nfl with horribly tefhnique because they only have to block for 2 seconds regularly.

I'd rather pay premium for a OL coach

 

[Krangodnzr]

Too many of these kids are coming into the nfl with horribly tefhnique because they only have to block for 2 seconds regularly.

I'd rather pay premium for a OL coach

This is why the Cardinals would be crazy to let Humphries walk. Even good OL prospects need a lot of work in todays NFL. We've been hearing NFL OL coaches say this for the past decade.

If you do want to move on from Humphries, the most intelligent move is to franchise him and draft his replacement.

 

[football karma]

the team finally has a young QB that has top 10 at his position potential

- and we are ready to let the starting LT walk in free agency on the hope that his replacement falls to the Cards at #8 (

keeping in mind that of the three top OTs, only one actually played LT in college -- so its a pretty specific hope ) ​

AND we hope that he shows up on day 1 playing at Humphries level --

-- so the team can save $9-$10mm a year

Eric Fisher, Jake Matthews, Taylor Lewan are highly regarded tackles who were highly rated when drafted ----- and were bad their first year.

that seems reckless to me, with the risk that Murray spends a year not being able to trust the pocket and develops a bunch of bad habits that ****** his development

I would much rather draft a OT in round 1 or 2 with the idea that he would have to prove he is at the level of Humphries and/or Murray before seeing the field.

 

[BritCard]

the team finally has a young QB that has top 10 at his position potential

- and we are ready to let the starting LT walk in free agency on the hope that his replacement falls to the Cards at #8 (

keeping in mind that of the three top OTs, only one actually played LT in college -- so its a pretty specific hope ) ​

AND we hope that he shows up on day 1 playing at Humphries level --

-- so the team can save $9-$10mm a year

Eric Fisher, Jake Matthews, Taylor Lewan are highly regarded tackles who were highly rated when drafted ----- and were bad their first year.

that seems reckless to me, with the risk that Murray spends a year not being able to trust the pocket and develops a bunch of bad habits that ****** his development

I would much rather draft a OT in round 1 or 2 with the idea that he would have to prove he is at the level of Humphries and/or Murray before seeing the field.

I mean, your talking like Hump is good. He's not. There are 20 better left tackles in the league and I named them all recently. He's a below average starting LT.

People seem to be acting like teams let NFL tackles sit for a year. Every single tackle drafted in the top 2 rounds started significant games this last season, and were drafted with the intention of starting games.

Deshawn Watson has had a different LT every year, several different LT's every year, and has made the playoffs 2 out of 3.

The Bengals will be starting Burrow with a LT that hasn't yet took an NFL snap.

The Bills made several changes along the OL for Allen's 2nd year. Including RT.

The Titans made numerous changes Marriota's 2nd year.

The line is bad. It just looked better because it was so astronomically terrible the year before. Consistency seems like a bad excuse to keep it the same and resigning average at best players like AQ and Hump.

 

[BritCard]

This is why the Cardinals would be crazy to let Humphries walk. Even good OL prospects need a lot of work in todays NFL. We've been hearing NFL OL coaches say this for the past decade.

If you do want to move on from Humphries, the most intelligent move is to franchise him and draft his replacement.

When will Hump be good?

 

[Russ Smith]

Unless the knee is a real concern I don't see the point in letting a 26 year old starting LT walk just to save money so we can draft a 21 year old LT who probably won't be as good as DJ is for at least a year and maybe longer. Nobody is saying DJ is elite but he was not the reason Kyler got sacked so much early in the season, that was a combination of RT, inside, and Kyler just not understanding he needed to step up to avoid sacks. 20 of the 48 sacks last year were in the first 4 games, 5 per game, the last 12 he got sacked 28 times just over 2 a game. Rams and Steelers got him 11 times combined the other 10 games he was sacked only 17 times. The line got much better and Kyler got much better at dealing with a pass rush.

We have a good OL coach seems like continuity here makes sense. If Thomas is there when we draft by all means draft him, if we think he's BPA, if he's that good play him at LT and move Hump back to RT, he wasn't great there before but he might be better there now. or play Thomas there he played it as a freshman in college. But don't get rid of our starting LT by letting him walk as FA so we then immediately have to replace him.

 

[kerouac9]

The OL got better as the year progressed and finished at least league average if not somewhat above.
You seem to be saying two different things here. Are you advocating moving on from DJ and drafting and/or FA as replacment?

I agree the OL got better as the year progressed, but I don't know if they were an average line by season's end. I'd agree that they were a competitive line by season's end, which is a start.

No one has been more skeptical of DJ Humphries than I, but I would probably sign him to a 5-year contract worth $13 million per season and $30 million guaranteed. If he wants more than that I'd have to franchise him.

My rule is that you can't plan on filling roster holes through the draft. It's a terrible practice and causes you do draft Levi Brown instead of Adrian Peterson.

Deshawn Watson has had a different LT every year, several different LT's every year, and has made the playoffs 2 out of 3.

The Bengals will be starting Burrow with a LT that hasn't yet took an NFL snap.

The Bills made several changes along the OL for Allen's 2nd year. Including RT.

The Titans made numerous changes Marriota's 2nd year.

The line is bad. It just looked better because it was so astronomically terrible the year before. Consistency seems like a bad excuse to keep it the same and resigning average at best players like AQ and Hump.

Deshaun Watson was so injured last season he couldn't fly to road games. He had to take a bus. I'm not certain why you believe that this is a template for success.

The Bengals just earned the #1 pick in the draft. I'm not certain why you believe that this is a template for success. They drafted 2 OTs extremely high, and neither of them have worked out so far.

The Buffalo Bills were 23rd in the NFL in points and 24th in yardage. They were worse than us. Did this experiment work?

Infusing talent sometimes isn't enough on the OL. You need better players, which sometimes mean settling for better fundamentals and technique and experience. This is why A.Q. Shipley is probably a better option next season than anyone else at center.

 

[BritCard]

I agree the OL got better as the year progressed, but I don't know if they were an average line by season's end. I'd agree that they were a competitive line by season's end, which is a start.

No one has been more skeptical of DJ Humphries than I, but I would probably sign him to a 5-year contract worth $13 million per season and $30 million guaranteed. If he wants more than that I'd have to franchise him.

My rule is that you can't plan on filling roster holes through the draft. It's a terrible practice and causes you do draft Levi Brown instead of Adrian Peterson.



Deshaun Watson was so injured last season he couldn't fly to road games. He had to take a bus. I'm not certain why you believe that this is a template for success.

The Bengals just earned the #1 pick in the draft. I'm not certain why you believe that this is a template for success. They drafted 2 OTs extremely high, and neither of them have worked out so far.

The Buffalo Bills were 23rd in the NFL in points and 24th in yardage. They were worse than us. Did this experiment work?

Infusing talent sometimes isn't enough on the OL. You need better players, which sometimes mean settling for better fundamentals and technique and experience. This is why A.Q. Shipley is probably a better option next season than anyone else at center.

We should give up hope now if AQ Shipley is our best option at Center after drafting 4 Centers in 5 years. Signing bottom 3rd left tackles to 5 year extensions is how you stay bottom 3rd at left tackle for 5 years.

The O line is bad. Keep playing bad players and not doing anything to change it is how it stays bad.

 

[kerouac9]

We should give up hope now if AQ Shipley is our best option at Center after drafting 4 Centers in 5 years. Signing bottom 3rd left tackles to 5 year extensions is how you stay bottom 3rd at left tackle for 5 years.

The O line is bad. Keep playing bad players and not doing anything to change it is how it stays bad.

What part of the plan is this? The offensive line is a unit that needs to play together. You probably can't improve at both RT and LT in the same season. The focus should be on improving the worst player on your bad offensive line — Justin Murray — not replacing arguably the best player on your offensive line, or one of your offensive captains.

 

[BritCard]

What part of the plan is this? The offensive line is a unit that needs to play together. You probably can't improve at both RT and LT in the same season. The focus should be on improving the worst player on your bad offensive line — Justin Murray — not replacing arguably the best player on your offensive line, or one of your offensive captains.

After a rough start in his first live games Justin Murray was better than Hump. I'm pretty sure there are more games where Murray graded better than Hump than vice versa.

I don't get the Hump love. He's had one injury free average season in 5 years on the team. I don't know why anyone would want to sign that to a multi year top 5 money extension.

There isn't a thing about him that says he's a franchise LT. Unless you call consistently average play franchise-able, when he makes it onto the field.

If Hump was a free agent from the Broncos I guarantee everybody here is saying "Hell no, he's an injury prone bum" if rumors were around we wanted to sign him.

 

[Solar7]

We should give up hope now if AQ Shipley is our best option at Center after drafting 4 Centers in 5 years. Signing bottom 3rd left tackles to 5 year extensions is how you stay bottom 3rd at left tackle for 5 years.

The O line is bad. Keep playing bad players and not doing anything to change it is how it stays bad.

I can fight both sides of this argument and I think everyone has a valid reason for their stance, but the bold speaks heavily to how I feel. There's talk of "(risking) that Murray spending a year not trusting his pocket and learns a bunch of bad habits," but that's what I felt this offensive line as it exists did to him in 2019. Kyler was skittish and ready to run from pressure the second the ball was snapped. It led to him throwing while running backwards a lot, and not stepping up into the pocket to throw. That's because this offensive line lacks any true talent.

BritCard's got a point about Humphries not really being in the top half of the league, and I don't think he ever will be either. Signing him is kinda throwing in the towel and saying "well for the next five years we're just gonna give Kyler enough to get by." But the point @kerouac9 makes about not counting on filling holes in the draft is just as valid.

It's why I probably end up throwing the franchise tag at Hump and seeing if we can find his eventual replacement or at least a replacement for Justin Murray.

 

[kerouac9]

After a rough start in his first live games Justin Murray was better than Hump. I'm pretty sure there are more games where Murray graded better than Hump than vice versa.

I don't get the Hump love. He's had one injury free average season in 5 years on the team. I don't know why anyone would want to sign that to a multi year top 5 money extension.

There isn't a thing about him that says he's a franchise LT. Unless you call consistently average play franchise-able, when he makes it onto the field.

If Hump was a free agent from the Broncos I guarantee everybody here is saying "Hell no, he's an injury prone bum" if rumors were around we wanted to sign him.

LOL. I would love you to validate this opinion somehow. Here's a counterpoint from Ben Muth, former Stanford Offensive lineman, Arizona Cardinals fan, and Football Outsiders analyst:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2019/word-muth-adios-arizona

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This was actually the first sack the Cardinals gave up in the game. Right tackle Justin Murray (71) just never really makes a stand. He starts kicking back and looks fine, but just keeps kicking and opening his hips. He never tries to sit down or really run the defensive end (Dante Fowler, 56) by the quarterback; instead he just keeps drifting away slowly. Just too mushy and unaggressive of a pass set.​

My philosophy on roster construction is that you don't get better by getting rid if the best players on your unit, you get better by replacing the worst players on your unit with better players, then hoping those players turn out to be your best ones. THis is like the dumb-dumbs who say our first offseason priority needs to be getting rid of Patrick Peterson.