Interesting downgrades of Joeckel and Montee Ball

[dylanbw]

Met this guy from Athlete Standard. Interesting analysis of the combine statistics. Essentially he is saying that while Joeckel and Ball are skilled football players, they benefited from systems which suited their skills, and are not 1st round material athletically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxjurLlN0eI

Curious for this boards thoughts, especially on Joeckel.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Don't know about Ball but the only knock on Joeckel I have heard is that the dude does not have great strength for the position but his technique is superb and he does have a frame to work with and get stronger

 

[ajcardfan]

Met this guy from Athlete Standard. Interesting analysis of the combine statistics. Essentially he is saying that while Joeckel and Ball are skilled football players, they benefited from systems which suited their skills, and are not 1st round material athletically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxjurLlN0eI

Curious for this boards thoughts, especially on Joeckel.

I think he is dead wrong on Joeckel. The guy was lights out against SEC competition last year, and was outstanding from a freshman on. I'd rip my clothes off and run naked down the street if we drafted Joeckel because we'd have a franchise LT.

Now, if you want to talk about an Aggie that is overrated, it is Moore. And I said that way before the combine hurt him. Still, Moore will be at least as good as Acho right off the bat, and probably has a little more potential down the road. But, he is not an elite, top 10 type stud like Von Miller.

 

[JeffGollin]

Dylan - What's "Athlete Standard?" An agent? Scouting service? Training operation?

Without knowing more about the specific aspects of the Texas and Wisconsin offensive systems that make Joeckel or Ball seem better than they'd be as pros, it's hard to assess the merits of what the guy from Athlete Standard is saying.

In the absence of more info, I'd tend to agree with ajcardfan that both dudes were playing in an elite competitive climate. Plus most the anecdotal commentary flowing from "Guru-Land" is that Joeckel is pretty rock-solid and "safe" and that, given his size, Ball may be turn out to be the best RB in the draft. (Who knows; talk is cheap).

Best any of us can do is (in the words of Warner Wolf) to "go back to the video tape", see how these guys looked playing in real games and try to visualize how they'd each would look locking horns with NFL opponents.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Love it.

I really like listening about football personnel talking themselves out of picks.

Joeckel is not strong enough.

Warmack is just a guard.

Etc., etc., etc.

Just let them fall to #7, and then after that, hopefully the same people will start talking themselves out of Alex Okafor.

 

[gimpy]

Ajcf, please don't.. Not sure what I'd do if I saw that.

 

[Southpaw]

I had Montee Ball as a 5th round back from the beginning. Trying to figure out what I was missing when I saw him much higher in other mocks. He has run behind Clydesdale horses his whole career at Wisconsin while setting bloated records. Typical Big 11 back. Nothing special and coming into an NFL that has a lower premium on RBs. It might be embarrassing for any RB who volunteers to sit in the waiting room at the NFL draft 1st day event.

Give me Lattimore in the 3rd round. If healthy he might have been the only 1st round RB in this year's draft.

I also like Fisher and Johnson over Joeckel for LT.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

Love it.

I really like listening about football personnel talking themselves out of picks.

Joeckel is not strong enough.

Warmack is just a guard.

Etc., etc., etc.

Just let them fall to #7, and then after that, hopefully the same people will start talking themselves out of Alex Okafor.

If we get Warmack and Okafor I will do dishes for a year and be happy about it

 

[crisper57]

I absolutely agree with his assessment of Joeckel. He is not first round material. And I scream that from the rooftops right up until he drops to #7.

 

[Southpaw]

If we get Warmack and Okafor I will do dishes for a year and be happy about it

Is the love for Okafor, as indicated by more than a few on this board, a regional thing? Texas defense this year was piss poor, or so it seemed. Was he one of the reasons why, or was it in spite of him?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I absolutely agree with his assessment of Joeckel. He is not first round material. And I scream that from the rooftops right up until he drops to #7.

+1

 

[Snakester]

Love it.

I really like listening about football personnel talking themselves out of picks.

Joeckel is not strong enough.

Warmack is just a guard.

Etc., etc., etc.

Just let them fall to #7, and then after that, hopefully the same people will start talking themselves out of Alex Okafor.

This. Just let Fisher or Joeckel fall to 7. Christmas would come early.

 

[Duckjake]

Is the love for Okafor, as indicated by more than a few on this board, a regional thing? Texas defense this year was piss poor, or so it seemed. Was he one of the reasons why, or was it in spite of him?

It was in spite of him. Just like with Sam Acho Texas D would have been even worse if Okafor hadn't been playing at a high level. UT's LBs were horrendous after Jordan Hicks went out and the secondary looked like they had taken tackling lessons from the 2003 Cardinals.

The Texas guy I think is overrated is Kenny Vaccaro.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I think Okafor has bust written all over him. Not saying he isn't worth the gamble, but not sure he is anywhere near worth a high 2nd. There are just more sure things out there at pick #38 than him. Much better to take Jarvis Jones with pick 1 and then take best OG with 2nd, like Justin Pugh if he should fall. 3rd round also with our high pick can get us a good starting interior OLman. I am hoping we use 2 of our 1st 3 picks on OLmen:

Rnd 1: Lane Johnson, Warmack, Cooper, or grab our premier pass rusher/DE/OLB - Dion Jordan, Jarvis Jones, Barkevious Mingo. The more I see the way mock drafts keep coming out, I have gone away from the OLman with #7 pick, and think it is smarter to get a great OLB here. This draft is so very deep in OGs and Cs, which is what we need.

Rnd 2: Pugh, Warford, Fluker, Watson, someone will fall to us here

Rnd 3: Frederick, Jones, Schwenke, my favorite spot in the whole draft will be here picking one of these 3. Any of these will be a great rnd 3 starter for us.

We can turn the whole image of our OL as thought of by the rest of the league around with just any 2 of these guys to go with the ones we got last year. We will have depth and strength for years up front. Plus we won't have to use any future picks for years on OL, which will really help the rest of our team get better. I just pray we do this once and for all time. This is the perfect draft to do it and we are sitting in the perfect position in all 3 of those first rounds.

Rnd 4: T.J. McDonald, Shawn Williams, JJ Wilcox, Bacarri Rambo, Josh Evans, Robert Lester, Tony Jefferson, can grab one of these very good safeties in this round.

Rnd 5: See who falls -1 of these should be here: Le'Veon Bell RB, Ricky Wagner OT, A.J. Klein ILB, William Gholston DE, Kenjon Barner RB, Matt Scott QB, Marcus Lattimore RB, Kevin Reddick ILB, Chase Thomas OLB.

 

[Jetstream Green]

It was in spite of him. Just like with Sam Acho Texas D would have been even worse if Okafor hadn't been playing at a high level. UT's LBs were horrendous after Jordan Hicks went out and the secondary looked like they had taken tackling lessons from the 2003 Cardinals.

The Texas guy I think is overrated is Kenny Vaccaro.

This, I have been saying the same thing. Okafor is 1st round talent and Vaccaro is overrated. If the Texas defense had some sand in the middle and Okafor did not have to constantly play holding back to cover the weak DL interior and patchy LB play...his sack total would have been a lot bigger. Okafor is good.

 

[slinslin]

This. Just let Fisher or Joeckel fall to 7. Christmas would come early.

And then they turn out to be the next Levi Brown or Leonard Davis.