Is ASU better off?

[AsUdUdE]

Today has really got me thinking...

In all honesty... For ASU.. what would be the best case for the Devils, This year..

Think about it.. For a team as young as ASU is, is it better for ASU to have been a 13 seed (lets be honest, that would prolly be what we would have gotten), and have to face UCONN in the first round for example...

Or be one of the top 4 seeds in the NIT, and play in a tournament setting, against quality competiton and actually have a chance at a run...

To me.. And I know had we made the tournament I would be singing a different tune, But I feel that ASU as a whole is better off making a run in the NIT, than possibly gettin bounced after one game from the Dance...

So what do you guys think.. Am I drinking the Kool-aid.. or will this actually work out better for the Devils...

 

[green machine]

Today has really got me thinking...

In all honesty... For ASU.. what would be the best case for the Devils, This year..

Think about it.. For a team as young as ASU is, is it better for ASU to have been a 13 seed (lets be honest, that would prolly be what we would have gotten), and have to face UCONN in the first round for example...

Or be one of the top 4 seeds in the NIT, and play in a tournament setting, against quality competiton and actually have a chance at a run...

To me.. And I know had we made the tournament I would be singing a different tune, But I feel that ASU as a whole is better off making a run in the NIT, than possibly gettin bounced after one game from the Dance...

So what do you guys think.. Am I drinking the Kool-aid.. or will this actually work out better for the Devils...

That's the key, they would have been better off in the tourney.

Also, if you ask me, I think they deserved a bid.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The NIT isn't a Tournament environment, the games will be played in Tempe at a half-filled WFA or in New York in an empty MSG. Not to mention the media attention is next to nothing.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Short answer. No

 

[AsUdUdE]

So Arizona who will in all liklyhood get rolled in the first round... For a young team, It is better to lose in the first round of the Tournament, then extend your season, and playing pretty good teams...

Expierance is worth its weight in gold... and losing in the first round of the tournament to me.. it seems like there isn't much gained in that situation...

Don't get me wrong, I wish ASU would be in the field.. But I think they would get more out of making a deep run at the NIT...

And next year with everyone coming back.. it should make for a very interesting year..

 

[Arizona's Finest]

So Arizona who will in all liklyhood get rolled in the first round... For a young team, It is better to lose in the first round of the Tournament, then extend your season, and playing pretty good teams...

Expierance is worth its weight in gold... and losing in the first round of the tournament to me.. it seems like there isn't much gained in that situation...

Don't get me wrong, I wish ASU would be in the field.. But I think they would get more out of making a deep run at the NIT...

And next year with everyone coming back.. it should make for a very interesting year..

I don't like travelling cross country but i will take that bet.

 

[AsUdUdE]

I think it could go either way... but the question remains..

Assuming UofA loses in the first round, Are all the ASU freshman and sophomores better off making a run, than extending the season one more more only to lose...

IMO... They are better off making a run, than extending it one MAYBE two more games....

 

[green machine]

I think it could go either way... but the question remains..

Assuming UofA loses in the first round, Are all the ASU freshman and sophomores better off making a run, than extending the season one more more only to lose...

IMO... They are better off making a run, than extending it one MAYBE two more games....

And if they don't make a run?

Think back to what you said in the original post: if ASU makes the dance you don't even consider this argument.

 

[AsUdUdE]

this whole thing is obviously hypothetical...

And clearly if they don't make a run, then the answer is obvious...

But ASU is good enough to make a run, and considereing how close they were to the tournament, they have to be considered one of the top 2 or 3 seeds going in...

So the Question is... Who is better off

UofA losing in the first round of the NCAA Tournament

Or ASU if they make a run to the semi-finals or championship in New York....

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

UA is changing coaches next year, so 4 or 5 NIT games is pretty much worthless as far as acclimation goes. You're also missing the recruiting angle, top recruits generally go to Tournament schools not NIT schools.

 

[Skkorpion]

ASU will benefit from playing in the NIT. More games for the freshmen under playoff conditions. The NCAA bid would have been better but we did not earn it.

 

[ajcardfan]

ASU will benefit from playing in the NIT. More games for the freshmen under playoff conditions. The NCAA bid would have been better but we did not earn it.

Agreed. We can bitch about it all we want. But, we truly could of made it much easier for the committee to pick us.

You have to keep perspective with where we were just two years ago. Back then, I wouldn't have take a bet on this team improving enough to make the NIT in two years, much less the NCAA. Anyone interested in ASU enough to consider them as a recruit will understand that. ASU's games will actually get into more homes as an NIT team, rather as than a one-and-done NCAA team. So, the experience and exposure is one more step in the right direction under Sendek. You have to win 3 games in the NIT to make it to New York for the semis. That would be good for the program.

 

[Lefty]

I think anytime you have a chance at the Big Dance, you want to play in it. Just look at today's reaction from the ASU team. The entire goal from the beginning for any team is to play in the NCAA tournament. Can anyone really name the four teams who played in the Final Four of the NIT last year without looking it up?

The UofA has one freshman, two sophomores and a junior in the starting lineup and the experience they will get will be better than anything the NIT can give them. The media coverage and atmosphere they will play in front of will make them even more hungrier to get back there next year, regardless how far they go. I know Bayless will most likely be gone but I did hear a nice conversation at the UofA baseball game last night that he is thinking about staying one more year due to the fact Lute will be back. I'll believe it when I see it but it was nice to hear that.

So you can see what my vote would be. Good luck against Alabama State. You guys do have a chance to go pretty far as long as the players stay positive. Hopefully the referee from the USC game last week won't be officiating.

By the way, will fans go to the basketball game or will they go see the baseball game against the Cats?

 

[HooverDam]

Please don't be ridiculous. The tourney, even if you get bumped in the first round, is always better. You think potential recruits like Renardo Sidney want to hear how you whooped up on the NIT field? Please.

 

[devilalum]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

ASU would have been better off getting in like they should have and beating a team or two.

The Devils finished ahead of Oregon and Tucson and still didn't make the tourney. BS!

 

[AsUdUdE]

ASU will benefit from playing in the NIT. More games for the freshmen under playoff conditions. The NCAA bid would have been better but we did not earn it.

agreed.. obiviously we ALL would have rather had ASU make the tournament.... but given the circumstances... this could work for the devils in the long run...

and for everyone talking about how recruits look at the tournament as their ONLY measuring tool.. you are wrong... Sendek is proving once again he is a VERY good recruiter, and he only recruits good players, with a good head on their shoulders, that are willing to check their ego at the door and work hard.

That is why ASU is not going to attract these one and done stars... This is the problem UofA is going to start having.. EVERY YEAR, UofA will have to deal with integrating new players into the offense, having a new "star: player learn to play with other new guys, and over time it is going to start to wear on the program....

ASU's Freshman and sophmores are all staying at least 3 years... And over the next 2 to 3 years, you will start to see the difference between a prgram who is always going to be trying to find their identity with new players, and a program that has an identity, and as all these Freshman and sophomores grow, they will become VERY good..

That is why a playoff type enviorment, will only help these kids and the program, while it would do NOTHING for UofA, because next year they will just have all new players anyway......

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

and for everyone talking about how recruits look at the tournament as their ONLY measuring tool.. you are wrong... Sendek is proving once again he is a VERY good recruiter, and he only recruits good players, with a good head on their shoulders, that are willing to check their ego at the door and work hard.

Then why exactly is he recruiting Renardo Sidney? And didn't Herb spend an entire summer recruiting Demar Derozan who ended up in bed with Master P and No Limit Records? Both of those kids are one and done's with major red flags.

The only player from Arizona that's leaving is Jerryd and they're bringing a top 5 recruiting class that includes the national HS player of the year. It's very possible a successor is named this summer as well who will inevitably have a quality resume. The rumors of our demise are very overblown.

 

[AsUdUdE]

Then why exactly is he recruiting Renardo Sidney? And didn't Herb spend an entire summer recruiting Demar Derozan who ended up in bed with Master P and No Limit Records? Both of those kids are one and done's with major red flags.

The only player from Arizona that's leaving is Jerryd and they're bringing a top 5 recruiting class that includes the national HS player of the year. It's very possible a successor is named this summer as well who will inevitably have a quality resume. The rumors of our demise are very overblown.

was it him? or more of the fact that Harden AND Glassor went to his High School...

and I don't think it is any coincedence that Harden is staying at ASU.. in fact I could see him staying his Junior year as well....

And i was not stating your demise.. I was simply saying with the new rules, recruiting is very different... and i think over time you will see big time programs shy away from "star" one-and-done athletes, for the reason that implementing new players every year will hurt any program...

And with another recruiting class comin in, headed by yet another one and done "star", it will be a very difficult season yet again... IMO...

Mean while I ASU will in all likelyhood have everyone back, so a run even in the NIT would make sense that it could serve to benifit ASU, while it wouldn't make any sense for UofA...

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

This type of reactionary nonsense has been claimed for years with no real evidence to support it. Even when kids were ditching schools left and right before they even enrolled to go to the NBA the star recruits were still being targeted by the big programs.

Let's just imagine UCLA without Kevin Love. Probably not a one seed and he's one and done. Kansas State without Beasley? NIT at best. Same for Arizona without Jerryd Bayless. Indiana's on the bubble without Eric Gordon and Memphis isn't a 1 seed without Derrick Rose. All those kids are probably one and done and they all are tremendously helping basketball programs.

The answer is pretty simple: bringing in kids who can play will help your program even if it is for just one year. I've had about enough of guys like Kirk Walters, Daniel Dillon, and Fendi Onobun. Give me Brandon Jennings, Andre Igoudala, or Jerryd Bayless and their short stops in Tucson over those guys any day. But hey, if ASU wants to keep bringing in guys like Jerren Shipp and Christian Polk and go 9-9 in the Pac-10 every year the rest of the conference is more than happy to accomodate.

 

[HooverDam]

Speaking of one and done type kids...

Sounds like Stern is trying to raise the NBA minimum age to 20. Now I hate Stern, and think for the most part he's wrong 9 times out of 10, but I like this a lot. It'll improve both the NBA and college basketball, and hopefully we'll see less teams take huge risks on 1 and done players that are jumping out too early.

I know the argument against it is basically that you are depriving someone of making a living, but I hardly see that as being the case when they can go to the D-league and make a fine living (i.e. 35K/year is much more than 99% of what most 18-20 year olds are making, so if going to college is a financial hardship, there's always the D-league).

 

[green machine]

Speaking of one and done type kids...

Sounds like Stern is trying to raise the NBA minimum age to 20. Now I hate Stern, and think for the most part he's wrong 9 times out of 10, but I like this a lot. It'll improve both the NBA and college basketball, and hopefully we'll see less teams take huge risks on 1 and done players that are jumping out too early.

I know the argument against it is basically that you are depriving someone of making a living, but I hardly see that as being the case when they can go to the D-league and make a fine living (i.e. 35K/year is much more than 99% of what most 18-20 year olds are making, so if going to college is a financial hardship, there's always the D-league).

I never understood this argument because in any business they have a right not to hire you based on your qualifications, one of which could be a college degree. So, why can't the NBA say "we won't 'hire' anyone without at least two years of college experience?" How is that against the law? Isn't the NBA a private business that can pretty much set its own standards?

 

[AsUdUdE]

I never understood this argument because in any business they have a right not to hire you based on your qualifications, one of which could be a college degree. So, why can't the NBA say "we won't 'hire' anyone without at least two years of college experience?" How is that against the law? Isn't the NBA a private business that can pretty much set its own standards?

could not agree more.. all these people who say..."you can't keep these kids from the NBA, because it is against the constitution, if they are ready, they are ready"... BS

I am a firefighter, and a senior at ASU. I have a beautiful wife and child, I was ready to go become a pharmasutical salesman a long time ago, but the standards in that line of work want a college degree... Is it against MY constutional right now? I mean I have proved that I am MORE than capable of doing it, I have interned with others, and practically my whole family is in some form of health-care...

So Why is it "acceptable" for me to wait and have to get a degree, and not for Athletes to just have to go to school for 2 years.... They don't even have to graduate...

I really hope they make this 2 year rule....

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Stern wanted a 2 year rule for as long as I can remember. Stern is right and the NBA has the authority to set its own rules, regardless of what Jermaine O'Neal thinks is racist or what others think about the NBA "denying" kids their future.

 

[HooverDam]

I never understood this argument because in any business they have a right not to hire you based on your qualifications, one of which could be a college degree. So, why can't the NBA say "we won't 'hire' anyone without at least two years of college experience?" How is that against the law? Isn't the NBA a private business that can pretty much set its own standards?

Oh, its not against the law. People were never arguing that (that I heard anyway). Their argument was that it was unethical/immoral, not illegal.

Obviously, all of us who have posted here though are in agreement that the NBA can set its own rules (if it can get the union to agree) and there's no problem w/ such a rule either ethically or legally.

 

[chickenhead]

It would have been great to make the bog show, because that's a step that making the NIT isn't IMO.

However, there are still a lot of positives to be taken from the NIT. Going deep or winning it all would be fantastic, too. I just hope they can make it to the semis so I can see them at MSG!