Is it the QB's or the offense?

moklerman

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There's not a whole lot more I can add to that question. Q being out has been a big disadvantage but has the statistical success of the o-line been somewhat misleading? It sounds great when you say they've only given up 5 sacks or that Edge is leading the conference in rushing but is all of that to the detriment of actual scoring production?

So far, I think Kurt's called better plays than Whisenhunt and staff. Leinart struggled in the regular offense as well as Warner. Maybe there's more to Pittsburgh letting him go than meets the eye?
 

dreamcastrocks

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Well, I thought that Levi's absence would be a factor here, but both of our QB's injuries have come from the left side. (although Matt's injury we didn't have enough blockers to pickup the blitz)
 
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moklerman

moklerman

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I think, overall, Whis has done a very good job but the offense has been pathetic other than the no-huddle situations. Pittsburgh's offense has looked pretty good so far this year as well. These aren't conclusive items but it does raise the question in my mind of how good is Whis' offense? Has he tailored something to fit the Card's personnel or is he trying to replicate what he had in Pittsburgh?

I like Whis but he is by no means unquestionable (see: WR brought with him from Pittsburgh) and I wonder if he needs to be a little more flexible in terms of how the offense is called.
 

BigRedRage

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I think, overall, Whis has done a very good job but the offense has been pathetic other than the no-huddle situations. Pittsburgh's offense has looked pretty good so far this year as well. These aren't conclusive items but it does raise the question in my mind of how good is Whis' offense? Has he tailored something to fit the Card's personnel or is he trying to replicate what he had in Pittsburgh?

I like Whis but he is by no means unquestionable (see: WR brought with him from Pittsburgh) and I wonder if he needs to be a little more flexible in terms of how the offense is called.


You mean the WR who has blocked punts and seems to make countless special teams plays in Sean Morey?

Or do you mean that Punter who has done better than player this whole season?

I have no beef so far.
 

seesred

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IMO Whiz has worked wonders in getting the perception changed and that in it's self is a mind game. Imagine walking into a francjise that everyone in the whole world thinks of as losers. Heck, we could be 4-2 or 5-1 that's how close we are. WEll after the Ravens, Seahawks and the Steelers we are 3-3 after 6. Most of us are speculating that there is a chance that we could make a playoff run over the next 4-5 weeks. We will see. But Whiz has turned the program and we are getting some respect.

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Zeno

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So, no one has a problem with how the offense has performed?

Yeah, I have a problem with it. The best our offense has looked (aside from the Seattle game) was out of the no huddle. Warner & Leinart have a similar QB rating out of the standard offense...a less than impressive number in the 60's.

The no huddle has been the best the offense has looked and coincidentally the play calls are being made by the QB at the line.

Whisenhunt doesn't get a pass, he is a first year head coach and his moves need to be questioned just like anyone else. Maybe its not his playcalling, maybe its the execution but when 2 Qbs (I won't count Rattay) struggle you have to wonder what the problem is.

Compare what we've seen the first 6 games of this season by the offense to what we saw the last 5 games of last years offense. Last year---229 passing yards per game, 114 yds rushing per game, 12 offensive TDs to this year with 226 passing yards per game, 106 rushing yards per game and 11 offensive TDs...doesn't look much different IMO and actually is slightly worse.
 
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moklerman

moklerman

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Thanks Zeno. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is concerned. It's somewhat moot at this point with all of the injuries but it would be nice to have it corrected when everyone does get back.

That was something that kind of made me wonder about the standard offense. Leinart was continually looking at his wristband of plays, which I dismissed as the alleged struggles he was having with the playbook but then Warner was doing the same thing when he was running the regular offense. Is there some reason the Card's aren't using the helmet communications?
 

D-Dogg

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The standard offense has looked terrible. It wasn't Matt. Kurt looked like hell running it too.
 

FightOnCards

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I think it IS the offense

I read this board daily. I have been so impressed with you guys and the high quality, interesting and intelligent posts you make that I have been intimidated about putting in my two cents worth.

HOWEVER, reading this thread I feel compelled to jump in. I DO feel that there is something about Whiz's offense that is giving trouble to our QB's, and possibly the WR's, too.

This is not the kind of theory that can be proved or disproved with numbers. By the numbers, our offense is on pace to match last year (#17 now, finished last year #18). But many of this year's yards and points were accumulated while running the no huddle offense.

There are a bunch of interesting circumstances that lend credence to the theory that it is difficulty with Whiz's base offense that is causing our players to struggle.

Whiz in Pittsburgh: Ben R. was successful in Pittsburgh in Whiz's first year, BUT the offense was simplified. Ben's second year, he struggled mightily; partly due to injury and appendicitis, but maybe his diffulties could also be partially attributed to problems with Whisenhunt's offense. This year, with Whiz gone, Ben is having a much better year.

Whiz in AZ: As much as people like to denigrate Leinart's success in college, if you ever watched him play, there is no doubt he is capable of reading defenses, calling audibles at the line, and throwing the ball downfield. He did have some AWFUL games last year, most young QB's do while getting accustomed to the speed of the NFL, along with other rookie issues.

What can Leinart's struggles be attributed to this year? According to Whiz, he was at all the off-season training programs, after the SF game he was coming in at 5:30 to look at film, and was doing everything they asked of him. So why was he struggling so badly? Some say they were seeing improvement, like the last drive in the Pittsburgh game, but he still did not look like he had confidence in what he was doing. While Leinart may not be the most mature 24-year old in the NFL, hopefully he is not so stupid as to jeopardize his incentives and endorsements by failing to prepare for games.

Now, take Kurt. Wow, he was hot on the no-huddle offense, night and day from Leinart in the base O. Calling the plays himself, for the most part. AND calling running plays, not just passing plays, some really good runs for Edge, as in the Baltimore game.

Then Leinart is hurt, Warner is in on base offense. 21 yards on 2 passing plays, then Fitz fumbles, Elton Brown misses a block, and Warner is out, too. Not so much success with Warner in the base offense.

As posters above noted, Whiz has made significant impact on this team, changing the culture, teaching good work ethics and better technique, not giving up until the game is over.

But to me it seems that there is something counter-intuitive to his offense that makes it difficult for quarterbacks to learn, witness the continuous checking of wristbands. It seems like our wide receivors have been having a hard time getting open, and that Leinart was going to his checkdowns a lot, short inside passes to Edge and Bienemann or Pope. This could be because Leinart at times was not seeing the open receivor, but it could also be because Whiz has crafted an offense based on a tight end's point of view.

As far as our WR's - why are they having so much trouble getting open? Not because every team we've played has had shut-down corners. Why is Fitz fumbling - three times this year, I think??? Could it be possible that the routes our WR's are being asked to run are counter-intuitive for them as well, making it more difficult to get open and to catch the ball? (Blaming Fitz's fumbles on Whiz's O is a stretch, but I haven't heard too many other explanations)

If it is indeed a fact that our QB's, WR's, and O-line are struggling, hopefully Whiz would make the necessary changes. I think it would be a great idea if Whiz would re-consider calling the plays on a routine basis. He would still have control of the game plan, and could keep the option open of sticking in his signature "trick" plays when needed, but leave the routine play-calling to Haley. IMO Whiz needs to take another look at "his" offense, bring in Kurt, Matt, Edge, Q and Fitz (maybe now Tim) to see what it is that is stopping up our offense. A football team is not a democracy, but a coach who ignores the fact that his offense is struggling is missing the boat. Whiz may have tons of confidence in his offence, but his QB's, RB's, and WR's need to share that confidence or they will continue to struggle on the field.
 
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jefftheshark

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HOWEVER, reading this thread I feel compelled to jump in. I DO feel that there is something about Whiz's offense that is giving trouble to our QB's, and possibly the WR's, too.

This is not the kind of theory that can be proved or disproved with numbers.

Now that is a great first post. I am going to break with tradition, and buy you dinner. :thumbup:

I am not sure I agree with everything you wrote, especially in regards to Fitz & his new found butterfingers routine, but there is certainly some food for thought contained in this post.

JTS
 

Mulli

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So what the offense is complicated? I would rather take the time to install the offense than have milquetoast offenses of yesteryears.
 
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moklerman

moklerman

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Is it too much of an oversimplification to use the offense that works best until it doesn't work any more? As much as I can't stand the Patriots, I've got to give them credit. They aren't balanced on offense they just keep passing the ball. If a defense plays deep to stop the big play, they'll just keep throwing screens and slants. Just like the Niners of old, if you want to "give" them 5-8 yards a pop, they'll take it.

The Card's aren't in that position. Teams aren't giving them the short stuff, they're playing up. That's why the no-huddle was so successful. I just don't agree with the idea that we can't use the no-huddle style offense all of the time because defenses will start gameplanning for it. The o-line is improved but still can't manage to prevent pressure vs. a four man front. Until they can, I don't think the pro-set offense should be the staple.
 

Zeno

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If it is indeed a fact that our QB's, WR's, and O-line are struggling, hopefully Whiz would make the necessary changes. I think it would be a great idea if Whiz would re-consider calling the plays on a routine basis. He would still have control of the game plan, and could keep the option open of sticking in his signature "trick" plays when needed, but leave the routine play-calling to Haley. IMO Whiz needs to take another look at "his" offense, bring in Kurt, Matt, Edge, Q and Fitz (maybe now Tim) to see what it is that is stopping up our offense. A football team is not a democracy, but a coach who ignores the fact that his offense is struggling is missing the boat. Whiz may have tons of confidence in his offence, but his QB's, RB's, and WR's need to share that confidence or they will continue to struggle on the field.

Excellent post. I'm hoping Whisenhunt learns as he is going along and recognizes the problems in the offense and is not so stubborn that he feels he doesn't need to adapt his system to the talent on hand. A good coach changes as necessary and to me Whisenhunt has all the makings of a good coach, tweaking his offense in whatever way is necessary to make his playmakers more comfortable is a very important step that he will have to make.
 

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