Is Kent Somers on vacation?

[DaisyCutter]

I'd like a slightly more objective opinion on the Dansby situation than what Urban would/could provide from inside the facility.

I guess that according to his blog, he's on vacation until after the 17th. That's kind of a shame. Good luck; I can't wait for him to get back, because that means that camp almost starts!

Seriously, though. I don't understand why the story hasn't been written about Graves being unable to actually maintain the core players on this team with the money the Cards had going into free agency. I'm sure part of it has to do with the 8-8 record and Whis still being in a honeymoon period, but when you say that your goal this offseason is to make sure the core is in place and to give the money to veterans on the roster (in fact naming Anquan Boldin and Adrian Wilson), and your own company notes that a player has earned his way to remaining with the team (remember this: http://www.azcardinals.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2013) who then leaves... Shouldn't the guy be in for some criticism?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'd like a slightly more objective opinion on the Dansby situation than what Urban would/could provide from inside the facility.

I guess that according to his blog, he's on vacation until after the 17th. That's kind of a shame. Good luck; I can't wait for him to get back, because that means that camp almost starts!

Seriously, though. I don't understand why the story hasn't been written about Graves being unable to actually maintain the core players on this team with the money the Cards had going into free agency. I'm sure part of it has to do with the 8-8 record and Whis still being in a honeymoon period, but when you say that your goal this offseason is to make sure the core is in place and to give the money to veterans on the roster (in fact naming Anquan Boldin and Adrian Wilson), and your own company notes that a player has earned his way to remaining with the team (remember this: http://www.azcardinals.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2013) who then leaves... Shouldn't the guy be in for some criticism?

Last I checked all those players are going to be on the field this year.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Clarification

Which isn't to say that this should be a "Bash Graves" thread. I would, if pressed, grade this offseason as a C+.

Did Graves accomplish the goals he lead off the offseason with? The only honest answer to that question is "hell no." They lost Pace, they didn't get Dansby a long-term deal, and they didn't address the contracts of Boldin or Wilson. And even two months after they said they wanted to extend Kurt Warner, that front has nothing going on with it.

But the Cards had a solid B- draft. Not adding a runningback of starting caliber was a major disappointment. They did a great job through free agency and the draft of adding depth to the defense, especially the front seven. There's real competition and pretty much every defensive position right now.

Free agency was about as well-played as anyone who listened had reason to expect--after the team lost Calvin Pace. Losing Pace was a major blow to the franchise--people are going to have to get used to that. But getting LaBoy and Haggans was a solid move. Losing Keydrick Vincent was a real problem--another that they probably didn't adequately address through the draft or free agency.

Looking now at this team, I think they are better than they were at the beginning of the 2007 season. The places where I see the biggest upgrades are:

1. Free Safety - I don't care who wins the battle between Rolle and Francisco (and I think it'll be a bigger battle than many believe right now), they'll be better than the zero that was Terrance Holt (another great free agency signing.

2. Outside Linebacker (Weak side) - Bertrand Berry had some real competition in Travis LaBoy, who I think itches to get a starting job. Hopefully LaBoy can be more effective in his backpedal than Berry is. Either way, the guy spelling the starter will be a huge upgrade over Daryl Blackstock.

3. Cornerback - After the injury to Eric Green, the Cards had to run out an overmatched Antrel Rolle (Even against #2 WRs!). The third corner was only a mild upgrade from someone pulled out from the stands. The addition of Dominique Rogers-Cromartie through the draft gives the Cards some flexibility, because when Clancy Pendergast goes to a five-defensive back alignment, he usually uses a third safety.

But the Cards are without question a little weaker at several positions, as well:

1. Offensive Guard/Tackle - Losing Vincent hurt more than most fans realize. Yes, Elton Brown was decent in relief of several nicked starters last season, but he also was inactive at the end of the year. He's also coming off offseason knee surgery. The Cards should have added another veteran defensive lineman so that they won't have to entirely reshuffle the line if someone goes down.

2. Outside Linebacker (Strongside) - Yes, Calvin Pace got well overpaid by the New York Jets. But they Miami Dolphins were another team that was willing to pay more for him than the Cardinals were. Bill Parcells rarely makes those kinds of mistakes on outside linebackers. He knows the 3-4 defense in ways that (let's face it) Clancy Pendergast never will. So does Eric Mangini. The Cards staunched the bleeding some by signing Clark Haggans, but the Pittsburgh Steelers rarely let starting linebackers with a lot of gas in the tank just leave (Remember Joey Porter? He used to be good). Even if Haggans remains productive this season--and I expect him to--he is 31 years old. The Cards may be forced to address this situation again in the 2009 draft unless Chris Harrington far exceeds expectations his rookie season.

3. Wide Receiver - Hopefully, Anquan Boldin can justify his offseason holdout by putting together a healthy 16 (or more?) games. Hopefully, Larry Fitzgerald can build on his Pro Bowl 2007 and also remain healthy. Because the Cards don't have much behind them. Jerheme Urban dropped over 10% of the passes thrown his way in 2007. Only 21% if Steve Breaston's 2007 receptions converted a first down. The Arizona Cardinals don't have any proven players behind their Pro Bowl duo, though Breaston had a strong offseason, and third round pick Early Doucet holds great promise. The Cards should use the tight end more in the passing game and--should the defense become more stout--be able to stay out of 3WR sets as frequently.

 

[Sandan]

Sure you mean that, otherwise why open with

Seriously, though. I don't understand why the story hasn't been written about Graves being unable to actually maintain the core players on this team with the money the Cards had going into free agency.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Last I checked all those players are going to be on the field this year.

1) Pace won't be.

2) They were going to be on the field this year regardless. The problem is that we supposedly stayed out of the free agency waters in 2007, and frontloaded contracts then, as well, so that we could focus on securing our core in 2008. That didn't happen.

When people here went ape over the fact that we wouldn't/couldn't get Alan Faneca, I didn't worry about it. Graves said last offseason and going into this one that we were going to address the core.

What ended up happening is that the Cards gave Larry Fitzgerald a contract that secured his services for two more seasons than his previous deal and didn't do much to save money against the 2008 cap. Then Graves placed the Franchise tag on Dansby and it looks like he's going to play under it.

So, we're going to go into the 2008 season with the usual $2 million in space under the salary cap. Maybe I'm wrong about this (I'm sure Joeshmo will correct me if I am), but I don't think that we'll be able to increase the pay of Warner, Boldin, and Wilson with that little amount of space.

So, going into next January (Maybe February--:fingerscrossed, Graves will be faced with doing new contracts for Warner (who I think will be due for free agency?) and Dansby, along with being still faced with an unhappy Wilson and Boldin.

Do you have more faith that he'll be able to get those deals done after not being able to address the core this offseason, or more? People forget that before Graves failed to anticipate Fitz's incentives, the Cards had some $40 million in cap space--one of the highest figures in the league. We didn't seem to do much with that money.

 

[cgolden]

Why is losing Pace a big blow to this franchise? He had one decent season in five years after being a first round pick. The Jets well overpaid him for that one season and if anything I give the Cardinals credit for now giving him 20 million guaranteed. Why any franchise would consider a guy who averaged 1.6 tackles and .14 sacks a game before the 2007 season worth $42 million is beside me. The worst part about Pace signing a big deal is that Dansby now wants 9 million a season (which is also ludicrous). Does anyone really wish that they would have paid Pace the exact same amount that he got from the Jets and signed Dansby to a contract that averages 9 million a season? Is Calvin Pace worth $20 million more than Travis LaBoy because their contracts would suggest that?

As for Boldin and Wilson, give it time. Both players will be on the field and both will be in serious talks for an extension sometime this season or in the next off season.

 

[BigRedRage]

Daisy, What about Chike? I am more than happy with him replacing Calvin.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

1) Pace won't be..

Good. Cause he is not worth 50million. And he would even be starting on our team right now. Okeafor had him beat out last year, and he would have beat him out again this year. You don't pay a player that much not to play every down. The Jets will regreat that move more than the RIDICULOUS amount they paid David Barrett a few seasons ago.

2) They were going to be on the field this year regardless. The problem is that we supposedly stayed out of the free agency waters in 2007, and frontloaded contracts then, as well, so that we could focus on securing our core in 2008. That didn't happen.

When people here went ape over the fact that we wouldn't/couldn't get Alan Faneca, I didn't worry about it. Graves said last offseason and going into this one that we were going to address the core.

What ended up happening is that the Cards gave Larry Fitzgerald a contract that secured his services for two more seasons than his previous deal and didn't do much to save money against the 2008 cap. Then Graves placed the Franchise tag on Dansby and it looks like he's going to play under it.

So, we're going to go into the 2008 season with the usual $2 million in space under the salary cap. Maybe I'm wrong about this (I'm sure Joeshmo will correct me if I am), but I don't think that we'll be able to increase the pay of Warner, Boldin, and Wilson with that little amount of space.

So, going into next January (Maybe February--:fingerscrossed, Graves will be faced with doing new contracts for Warner (who I think will be due for free agency?) and Dansby, along with being still faced with an unhappy Wilson and Boldin.

Do you have more faith that he'll be able to get those deals done after not being able to address the core this offseason, or more? People forget that before Graves failed to anticipate Fitz's incentives, the Cards had some $40 million in cap space--one of the highest figures in the league. We didn't seem to do much with that money.

You are not going to keep every player. We are not the only team in this trouble next year, but I will admit we are the only 8-8 team with this trouble.

If our club just won the super bowl I would be more worried about losing our core players. But right now our "core players" amount to 8-8 at best.

Now I am not about to say the Cardinals offseason was productive. It was not. The fact they didn't sign Dansby long term is a big problem. The fact Boldin and Dockett are not happy with thier situations is a big problem. The fact Wilson is due for a pay increase is a problem as well.

But there are solutions to those problems. There are other bloated contracts on this team that can but taken out of the equation. Edge, Al Johnson, Marcell Shipp to just name a few.

And things are just going to get worse LEAGUE WIDE with the impending uncapped year.

My advice enjoy the team we will field 2 1/2 months from now. We have all next year to worry about this and that.

6 months from now you don't know who will be better than whom, and who will be worth what. It is a waste trying to figure it out now.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Daisy, What about Chike? I am more than happy with him replacing Calvin.

I'm more than happy with Chike replacing Calvin, as well. But only for this year and next. Then his contract runs out and he'll be--what--32? 33?

I actually don't really mind Haggans replacing Calvin Pace either, for this season.

But the Cards made a poor strategic decision in not getting Pace under contract before free agency began. Now they're stuck with having to use draft picks (or more expensive free agents) to replace a player that they had on the roster and invested a first round pick + 5 years in. That's not good business.

I think that Rod Graves has, for the most part, been a good tactician but a poor strategist during his time here. Tactics will get you close to a winning season, but strategy builds long-term success. Last year, Graves told Cardinal fans that they were executing a strategy and making sure that the core of this team remains intact. But, with Pace gone and Dansby possibly on his way out (I'd put it at 80% that he enters the free agency market in 2009 and 60% that he ends up with another team), then who remains the core on defense? Adrian Wilson, Gerald Hayes, and an unhappy Darnell Dockett? Everyone else is unproven or trying a new position.

I don't think that Pace deserved the money that he got. I don't really think that Dansby has earned the money that he's getting guaranteed this season. But neither of those situations would have occurred if the General Manager had been more proactive in getting contracts done with the Cards' young players.

Instead, the Cards have another first-round draft pick leave in free agency and a player that is now used to making over $8 million a year.

Rugby makes a good point, and I'm going to turn the page on all this once camp opens. None of this matters. I think the team had a mildly productive offseason, but could be in much, much better shape had it had more foresighted leadership at the top.

Personally, I think that this team is better off for 2008 than it was for 2007, but I think that it's less prepared for 2009 and beyond. This team could be improved from the 2007 squad but put up an identical 8-8 record.

 

[football karma]

In general -- I am dissapointed that Rod didnt get Dansby locked up.

After the Pace signing ( which I am supportive of not giving him that kind of money) -- I would have thought -- holy moley, if Pace got that, what would Karlos get in the open market?-- and did my best to sign him to a deal-- even if it felt like I was overpaying a bit.

My criticism of Rod ( and really, its a reflection of ownership) is that he is wayyyyy too reactive and not proactive enough.

The time to deal with Fitz' impending contract was last year -- not this offseason. Rod was quite public in saying that he knew the minute he signed the deal that if Fitz put up numbers he would have to renegotiate. Shouldnt he have figured after one pro bowl that another was a decent probability? Instead, you get the impression that they maybe "hoped" that Wis' run oriented offense would have Larry put up respectable but non pro bowl worth numbers.

The conduct of the team in regards to contracts has come a long way --- to NFL average. That has got us fans a 8-8 football team. If ownership wants a playoff team, they will have to be better than average.

 

[BigRedRage]

Dansby is one of my favorite cardinals and has been a huge playmaker for us, I have no problem wiht paying him, boldin, dockett and wilson - all my favorite players

 

[O]

Somer's must have read this.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2008/07/14/20080714dansby.html

 

[ajcardfan]

Somer's must have read this.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2008/07/14/20080714dansby.html

Good to hear about Doucett.

Actually, this isn't too bad at all. At least Graves seems to be keeping a positive tone with Dansby's agent. While he won't be signed long term by tomorrow, it does keep the door open for him signing a deal after the season.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Wood has sought an extension for Dansby for more than a year. His latest offer would pay Dansby about $9 million a year, while the Cardinals are believed to be looking at a deal with an average of around $6 million.

Dansby's price skyrocketed as soon as Pace signed his deal. Likely when Pace told Dansby the kinds of offers he was getting. If Graves had been proactive 10 months ago, we'd likely have both of them under contract right now.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Dansby is gone. I dont understand why anyone is still fussing over it. Enjoy watching him this year.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Dansby's price skyrocketed as soon as Pace signed his deal. Likely when Pace told Dansby the kinds of offers he was getting. If Graves had been proactive 10 months ago, we'd likely have both of them under contract right now.

 

[Skkorpion]

Good to hear about Doucett.

Actually, this isn't too bad at all. At least Graves seems to be keeping a positive tone with Dansby's agent. While he won't be signed long term by tomorrow, it does keep the door open for him signing a deal after the season.

I read it that way too. If Karlos ends up leaving anyway, I wish him well.

 

[jmr667]

Dansby's price skyrocketed as soon as Pace signed his deal. Likely when Pace told Dansby the kinds of offers he was getting. If Graves had been proactive 10 months ago, we'd likely have both of them under contract right now.

Just like the contract extensions Anquan and Dockett got? Or some miracle contract that would guarantee he'd never hold out if he found out another player got a bigger contract a year or two later?

 

[DaisyCutter]

Just like the contract extensions Anquan and Dockett got? Or some miracle contract that would guarantee he'd never hold out if he found out another player got a bigger contract a year or two later?

At least they'd be under contract. I'd rather have an unhappy player under contract than a happy one with another franchise.

Wouldn't you?

 

[Shane]

As far as Im concerned if a deal wont be done with Dansby by tomorrow? We may as well take that money and wrap up Q with it.

 

[black]

As far as Im concerned if a deal wont be done with Dansby by tomorrow? We may as well take that money and wrap up Q with it.

Very good idea.

 

[DaisyCutter]

As far as Im concerned if a deal wont be done with Dansby by tomorrow? We may as well take that money and wrap up Q with it.

You can't. Dansby's already guaranteed the $8 million unless a new contract is done. Part of the would-be motivation for getting Dansby long-term is that it would free up essential cap space to get Boldin, Warner, and Wilson extended. Because this deal probably won't get done, Boldin will have to play cranky for the next season.

Of course, we all understand that as long as Q gets his, you really don't care what else happens to the team.

 

[ajcardfan]

Dansby is gone. I dont understand why anyone is still fussing over it. Enjoy watching him this year.

That's what a lot of Bears fans were saying about Lance Briggs exactly one year ago.


I wouldn't put any money on Dansby eventually signing a long term deal here. But, it's not out of the question that it might happen.

 

[cgolden]

That's what a lot of Bears fans were saying about Lance Briggs exactly one year ago.

I wouldn't put any money on Dansby eventually signing a long term deal here. But, it's not out of the question that it might happen.

 

[slanidrac16]

You can't. Dansby's already guaranteed the $8 million unless a new contract is done. Part of the would-be motivation for getting Dansby long-term is that it would free up essential cap space to get Boldin, Warner, and Wilson extended. Because this deal probably won't get done, Boldin will have to play cranky for the next season.

Of course, we all understand that as long as Q gets his, you really don't care what else happens to the team.

Well , we could extend Q with some creative guaranteed bonus, lowering his base salary and such. I'll bet joeshmo could come up with something.