Is our playbook too complicated ?

[londonpete]

Something I've been thinking about after I read an article about CP3 having to learn 170+ plays.

Just simply, is our offense too over- complicated?
It seems to me that is overkill.

Too many plays means not enough reps in practice to get the core plays down pat.
Confusion resulting in receivers running wrong routes.
When one of our OL goes down, it is not just easy for another to come in and play, meaning missed assignments.

It could also be why we are stuck with Stanton - who knows the system but could be hindering a younger QB's progress.

I don't know how many plays are in other teams' playbooks so not sure if I am missing the point here but I hear so much about BA's complicated system that it takes so long for players to get to learn , and by that time half the season at least is over.

Surely we could get by with half that number of plays and get those executed efficiently.

 

[Mitch]

Something I've been thinking about after I read an article about CP3 having to learn 170+ plays.

Just simply, is our offense too over- complicated?
It seems to me that is overkill.

Too many plays means not enough reps in practice to get the core plays down pat.
Confusion resulting in receivers running wrong routes.
When one of our OL goes down, it is not just easy for another to come in and play, meaning missed assignments.

It could also be why we are stuck with Stanton - who knows the system but could be hindering a younger QB's progress.

I don't know how many plays are in other teams' playbooks so not sure if I am missing the point here but I hear so much about BA's complicated system that it takes so long for players to get to learn , and by that time half the season at least is over.

Surely we could get by with half that number of plays and get those executed efficiently.

In my opinion, yes, and unnecessarily so. Football doesn't have to be that hard. Look at Dak Prescott who runs a bread and butter offense for the Cowboys. He knew what he was doing right from the get-go. Offenses today are all about exploiting mismatches. Kurt Warner took notes on the sidelines against Green Bay when they were kicking our butts and that week put in his own game plan to exploit mismatches and turned in what was the most amazing passing performance I have ever seen from a Cardinals' QB. Warner lit up Green Bay's defense and the scoreboard like a Christmas tree...all in one week's preparation. Why? he knew what the mismatches were and he he knew exactly how to counter for their blitzes and coverage changes.

What's worse about BA's offense is that there are no plan Bs in pass protection. He knows sub LT John Wentzel is struggling and does nothing to help him. If you have 170 plays and you can't adjust to what is happening on the field, then little of it matters.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

They are professionals, and it is the same system they ran in 2015.

QB has to make the throws that an NFL QB is expected to make.

High paid offensive linemen are expected to be able to block people.

I understand your point, and it is a good point, but if the Cardinals need to simplify the playbook with the amount of high paid veterans on that offense, then there is are bigger problems than the complexity of the offensive system they run.

 

[cardpa]

Something I've been thinking about after I read an article about CP3 having to learn 170+ plays.

Just simply, is our offense too over- complicated?
It seems to me that is overkill.

Too many plays means not enough reps in practice to get the core plays down pat.
Confusion resulting in receivers running wrong routes.
When one of our OL goes down, it is not just easy for another to come in and play, meaning missed assignments.

It could also be why we are stuck with Stanton - who knows the system but could be hindering a younger QB's progress.

I don't know how many plays are in other teams' playbooks so not sure if I am missing the point here but I hear so much about BA's complicated system that it takes so long for players to get to learn , and by that time half the season at least is over.

Surely we could get by with half that number of plays and get those executed efficiently.

This is why a guy like Chad Williams can't find the field. I would say it pretty safe to assume that the offense Williams came from in college wasn't remotely as complicated as Arians. So instead of using him on a limited basis and playing to what he knows until he learns more, Arians instead leaves him to rot on the bench because Williams hasn't learned the entire playbook yet.

 

[Mitch]

It is also an offense that BA can't trust to run a hard count to keep defenses off balance. Sorry to pile on, but it remains a fact again this year.

 

[BigRedRage]

They are professionals, and it is the same system they ran in 2015.

QB has to make the throws that an NFL QB is expected to make.

High paid offensive linemen are expected to be able to block people.

I understand your point, and it is a good point, but if the Cardinals need to simplify the playbook with the amount of high paid veterans on that offense, then there is are bigger problems than the complexity of the offensive system they run.

This. It wasnt too complicated in 2015 so it isnt now either.

 

[MrYeahBut]

If they have so many plays, how come they used only 5 of them in the Detroit game?

Run up the middle.
Flat pass.
Crossing route.
Bomb.
I forgot the 5th one they used.

 

[Paso Fino]

How many quarterbacks for other teams wear a wrist band with plays written on it?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

How many quarterbacks for other teams wear a wrist band with plays written on it?

Do not know, how many ?

 

[b8rtm8nn]

It is also an offense that BA can't trust to run a hard count to keep defenses off balance. Sorry to pile on, but it remains a fact again this year.

Stanton has no problem employing the hard count at will, I believe this is a Palmer issue

 

[Dback Jon]

This. It wasnt too complicated in 2015 so it isnt now either.

Disagree. Palmer even struggled to learn it.

 

[BigRedRage]

Disagree. Palmer even struggled to learn it.

And then had his best year in the NFL in it.

 

[overseascardfan]

For as complex as people make it out to be, defenses seem to pick it up pretty easily. Take away deep ball, fluster Palmer and key in on DJ. Is it more complicated than NE system? If it is then it needs to be simplified.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

And then had his best year in the NFL in it.

More importantly, how is it your son has a better avatar than you ?

 

[BigRedRage]

More importantly, how is it your son has a better avatar than you ?

lol

My avatar is the bomb. Thats me standing in front of a 200ft waterfall 12 miles deep into the grand canyon.

(and that isnt my son)

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

The best offenses in the league have complicated systems.... that's how they stay one step ahead of the defense they're facing. The patriots, packers, saints etc... have an incredible amount of different personnel groups and their receivers/backs have option routes depending on the coverage played. This isn't high school or college... these guys are paid very high dollar to engulf themselves into the playbook and learn every nuance... that's their job. The playbook isn't too complicated... it's just lack of execution. If you can spend 12+ Hours a day for months learning 170+ plays and still not 'get' them... well the NFL just isn't for you.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

lol

My avatar is the bomb. Thats me standing in front of a 200ft waterfall 12 miles deep into the grand canyon.

(and that isnt my son)

Really......mad shade being thrown around here, and there is nothing more beautiful than a Drew Stanton touchdown dance.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The best offenses in the league have complicated systems.... that's how they stay one step ahead of the defense they're facing. The patriots, packers, saints etc... have an incredible amount of different personnel groups and their receivers/backs have option routes depending on the coverage played. This isn't high school or college... these guys are paid very high dollar to engulf themselves into the playbook and learn every nuance... that's their job. The playbook isn't too complicated... it's just lack of execution. If you can spend 12+ Hours a day for months learning 170+ plays and still not 'get' them... well the NFL just isn't for you.

+1

Pats change what they are doing every week.......that being said, it didn't work out too well for them week 1 either.

I would not be surprised if the Cardinals already have not paired down the offense, and are just going to continue to do so.

 

[Metcalf Rules]

If they have so many plays, how come they used only 5 of them in the Detroit game?

Run up the middle.
Flat pass.
Crossing route.
Bomb.
I forgot the 5th one they used.

The 5th one was the pass attempt to the Lions defender.

 

[Jasper]

Do not know, how many ?

I think all of them do

 

[Shane]

No... And if it is it means our players are too stupid...

 

[pmacLean]

If they have so many plays, how come they used only 5 of them in the Detroit game?

Run up the middle.
Flat pass.
Crossing route.
Bomb.
I forgot the 5th one they used.

That. Exactly that.
I don't care if they have 42 minute variations on that run up the middle. Get rid of 41 of them and execute the 1 to perfection every time. (ok, ok keep 3 variations).
I see them line up and say, they are going to do this (and I am a DOOFUS) and that is what they do, a disturbing amount of the time. No wonder our offense looks sad, everyone knows what we are going to do, and then we do it poorly.

 

[Jetstream Green]

No, you get paid a ton of money to play football and there are far more people in this world making far less which are required to know a lot more... plus this should be their passion, freaking football which they only have basically half a year to invest all their energy in and there is no excuse for not knowing a playbook which represents the key to them achieving

 

[JeffGollin]

If they have so many plays, how come they used only 5 of them in the Detroit game?

Run up the middle.
Flat pass.
Crossing route.
Bomb.
I forgot the 5th one they used.

Mitch, YeahBut & Others - It would be interesting to expand the play-log for a game (available at nfl.com) to add formation and play info. (And, if you want to go crazy, the defensive scheme vs. each play). Any of you want to take a crack at it - maybe starting out doing it for one quarter?

 

[Big D]

Can a playbook be complicated yet completely uncreative and unimaginative at the same time?