Is the Bronze medal a "loser" medal for the US Men's basketball team?

[Yuma]

The US Men are EXPECTED to win Gold by our country every Olympics. Is the Bronze a "loser" medal, or should we just be happy as a nation to medal at the Olympics?

 

[devilalum]

If an American wins a bronze medal in say the marathon, an event that dozens of other first class competitors from all over the world participate in that is something we all can be very proud of.

If a team of Americans participating against only 11 other teams comes in third in an event that we INVENTED I'd say that is not an accomplishment worthy of much national pride.

More Americans play basketball than all other countries in the world combined. It is an American sport. Every high school and college has a team. We broadcast 1000's of hours of games a year. Our women absolutely dominated the Olympics and their foriegn counterparts have been playing the game on a similar amatuer level for many years.

Something is very wrong when the US Olympic comittee can't put together a men's team that dominates.

My theory is that the NBA just doesn't really care that much about the Olympics.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Bronze Medal is not a loser Medal but it is not what the U.S. team went to the Olympics to get. Certainly the Gold Medal is the watermark.

It appears more and more to me that international basketball is a different brand of basketball predicated upon the three point shot. As such, with the close three point line, on a given night many teams can just shoot their way to victory. Sure there may be better team play and more focus on fundamentals in international play (on which the U.S. team and the NBA needs to learn) but it is basically a three point league.

Can one imagine the impact of bringing Steve Kerr out of retirement for the Olympics and the impact he might have had just shooting the three point shot? Yes, I'm being a little over dramatic but not by much.

Perhaps sadly the time is right to start exporting NBA franchises around the world in an attempt to get a common set of rules or the division between international basketball and U.S. basketball will become even bigger. I admire the three point shot as part of a game strategy but not as focal part of the game. The world and the U.S. need to set up some standard rules for the entire game of basketball (college, NBA and international) for the well being of the game.

 

[Joe Mama]

Our women absolutely dominated the Olympics and their foriegn counterparts have been playing the game on a similar amatuer level for many years.

I only watched one of the US women's games, and that was the gold-medal game yesterday against Australia. They certainly did not dominate the Aussies. In fact the outcome was very much in question until the fourth quarter.

NOW with the exception of Tim Duncan this US men's team consisted of second, third, and fourth string all-stars. The women's team was all of the very best WNBA players, and even they did not "dominate".

Yuma, you really needed another option that was something like "it's nothing to be proud of, but it's nothing to be ashamed of either."

Joe Mama

 

[devilalum]

By Adrian Wojnarowski
Special to ESPN.com

ATHENS, Greece -- All those things the public struggles to see beyond -- the tattoos, the cornrows, crooked baseball caps -- could no longer be the excuse for missing out on his finest hour. These Olympic Games were the best of Allen Iverson, a performance people never wanted to believe possible for him. Maybe it was true he was once the unwilling pupil of Larry Brown, but his old 76ers coach should've been studying the lessons Iverson taught on selflessness and accountability in these games.



No excuses, no pouting: Allen Iverson is simply proud to represent U.S. and win bronze.
The most telling moment of all was in the minutes after the United States' loss to Argentina in the semifinals, when the possibility for gold and glory were gone. When the coach stayed on his self-serving course of blaming USA Basketball, his players and the officials, Iverson stayed with his message in these games: It was an honor to represent his country, and his team had an immense obligation to treat the bronze medal game as though it was playing for gold.


When Brown had come to give a concession speech for the Olympics, Iverson delivered a public pep talk to his teammates for the eventual 104-96 victory over Lithuania.


"If you don't get it done the way you expected to," Iverson said, "I think it's important that you get it done the best way you can. It's important that we come out and fight, and get the people proud of us back home."


Nobody conducted himself better, nor behaved like a better representative of this basketball team than he did in the games. Maybe everyone believed Iverson needed to bring back a gold medal to use the Olympics to rehabilitate his image. They were wrong. There was far more virtue in defeat than victory here. America found out much more about Iverson without him winning the gold, than it ever would've with him winning it.


"It's an honor to be named to this team," Iverson said. "It's something that you should cherish for the rest of your life. And honestly, this is something that I will cherish even without winning a gold medal. I feel like a special basketball player to make it to a team like this."


When the United States needed a standup spokesman in these games, it was co-captain Iverson taking the tough questions for as long as people needed him, not co-captain Tim Duncan. He was never afraid to make himself front and center, even when the public unjustly wanted to make him the embodiment for the reasons they didn't like this team, and even rooted against it. They should've been here. They should've watched Iverson play, and listened to him talk, and understood his desire to represent the United States far exceeded his need for self-preservation. He was willing to expose himself to the hits, the way no one else did here.


Iverson was the co-captain of the United States Olympic team and understood the selfish and self-defeating consequences for constantly tearing this team down, the way Brown did, instead of trying to find a way to make this work. Everyone else had done enough analyzing of the flaws in the USA Basketball system, but there was a responsibility the coach and the captains had to deliver direction to this impossibly young team. What good did it do for the players to constantly hear Brown telling the world they didn't have enough time to prepare for the games, except to give those fragile psyches excuses for losing?


"We had to understand from the first day that was the amount of time we had to prepare," Iverson said. "Was it enough of time? I don't know. But we knew we had to get it done in that time.


"And that's not any excuse we could use."


When NBA commissioner David Stern had a chance to talk with reporters in Athens, he had two clear agendas: make sure people understood he loved the way his players handled themselves and make sure he let them know Brown had disappointed him. Brown never stopped doing it, and Iverson never started. Iverson had come to represent the United States, and representing it meant honoring his responsibilities to the end. It didn't mean trying to distance yourself from responsibility and blame, to protect your own legacy and reputation.


"Sometimes the historical ways to motivate a team don't necessarily play out quite as well when you're in an international setting," Stern said. "This was a team that was put together, by everyone, including the coaching staff. So, I don't buy the well, 'I'd like to have this, I'd like to have that.'


"It's not about who didn't come. You take your team to the gym and you play with what you got and then you either win or lose. This whining and this carping is not fair to [those] who are representing their country admirably and well."


On his way home, Iverson started recruiting teammates for 2008. He wants to come back again. He had the time of his life wearing the red, white and blue, and just hopes the United States will give itself its best chance for gold medal in Beijing.


"For as anybody who grew up in the U.S., and was able to be a basketball player in the NBA, you understand the things that your country has done for you and your family," he said. "It gave you an opportunity to be able to support your family and be recognized as a household name. It was just an honor to be able to do something like that, and I would advise anybody selected to a team like this to take that honor and cherish it.


"It shouldn't be a question in your mind. When you get a chance to represent your country, what's better than that?"


Maybe it's time everyone understands that even not winning a gold medal is better than that. And most of all, maybe it's time everyone takes a moment and looks past the cornrows and tattoos and bronze medal -- all the things they swore they never wanted to see on an Olympic basketball player -- and see what they believed they always did: one hell of a proud American.



I totally agree.

Larry Brown is the real loser here. Brown has been making excuses and side-stepping responsibility for years. He's a good couch as long as everything is going well.

How many teams has he turned his back on?

Larry with a captial "L"

 

[PhxGametime]

I agree with Chad - I don't get to see a lot of games live and after the years I worked night shift, I prefer to record games and then watch afterwards... and Women's didn't dominate, the game didn't stress me out but I got all into the last 2 close Women's games Two close games and I did watch a couple of the Men's live as well, exact same thing - just not used to games live, Basketball is much more intense when you don't already know score can't rewind, etc.

Women's Softball dominated though, I got to see some of that - USA Women's Basketball didn't lose... if that's what you meant by that and a couple blowouts. Mercury players played well, that I saw in Olympics (Taurasi, P Taylor, and Stepanova)...

 

[devilalum]

NOW with the exception of Tim Duncan this US men's team consisted of second, third, and fourth string all-stars. The women's team was all of the very best WNBA players, and even they did not "dominate".
Joe Mama

This was my other point.

The Olympics are a big deal to the women. Representing the US is a lifetime dream. Any American woman in the WNBA would kill to get on the team. I'm sure many of them had to miss important family events etc... to participate but we never heard any of that.

Its a matter of priorities. The NBA in general just doesn't seem to care that much.

What did KG, Shaq, TMaq, etc.... all have to do that was more important than representing their country? The point is that they just don't really care.

The men who did go should be proud, most of them played hard and all of them stuck their necks out to play for a team that everybody knew would never meet pre-Olympic expectations. The bronze medal was defenitely a realistic and positive outcome for this team but not a realistic expectation for the country that invented the sport.

 

[devilalum]

I agree with Chad - I don't get to see a lot of games live and after the years I worked night shift, I prefer to record games and then watch afterwards... and Women's didn't dominate, the game didn't stress me out but I got all into the last 2 close Women's games Two close games and I did watch a couple of the Men's live as well, exact same thing - just not used to games live, Basketball is much more intense when you don't already know score can't rewind, etc.

Women's Softball dominated though, I got to see some of that - USA Women's Basketball didn't lose... if that's what you meant by that and a couple blowouts. Mercury players played well, that I saw in Olympics (Taurasi, P Taylor, and Stepanova)...

The fact that they were undefeated was what I interpreted as being "dominate."

If you win every game isn't that "totally dominating?"

 

[binkar]

I don't think I can vote for any of the options above. I wouldn't say they should be "ashamed", but I definetly think we were capable of doing better.

 

[Mainstreet]

Originally Posted by Joe Mama

NOW with the exception of Tim Duncan this US men's team consisted of second, third, and fourth string all-stars. The women's team was all of the very best WNBA players, and even they did not "dominate".

Unfortunately I did not get a chance to see the women's basketball team play. Was their offense predicated on the perimeter game unlike the U.S. men's game, especially the three point shot and also were their inside players allowed to play an inside game?

(I'm just wondering if FIBA treats the women's game any differently and whether the women's game is a finesse game thus the U.S. are more successful with the international officiating)

I still trying to figure out why Tim Duncan was called for so many fouls.

 

[George O'Brien]

They interviewed some women's team players who said that their international experience was very valuable.

One factor that has not been emphasized is that the NBA is really long. The period from the end of the playoffs to the start of training camp is a little over three months. Most final four players are simply too worn down by the end of season and need time to recover physically. It is not an accident that it was mostly young players (who need less time to recover) and players non-playoff teams that were willing to play.

Stoudemire - not in playoffs
Marion - not in playoffs
Boozer - not in playoffs
Iverson - not in playoffs
James - not in playoffs
Okafor - rookie
Anthony - out after first round
Marbury - out after first round
Jefferson - out after second round
Odom - out after second round
Wade - out after second round
Duncan - out after third round

Obviously, this does not explain why guys like T-Mac and Ray Allen were unwilling to play; but some of the gys who played into June would make a pretty good team such as KG, J O'Neal, Rip Hamilton, Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Sam Cassell, etc. I'm not sure Wally Szczerbiak was even given consideration, but he is exactly what the USA team needed.

In any case, I'm not sure the USA team can ever expect to put the best 12 guys on the team with the season being so long.

 

[Gaddabout]

AI's attitude is certainly questionable at times, but I don't see how anyone could ever question his heart, even before the Olympics. He has always put his heart and his body on the line, even while playing in great pain. I can understand his street cred, because he brings it every game.

 

[jw7]

Nope. I think it's good that they didn't lay down and pulled out the bronze.

The international rules are different. It's about passing and making 3's. Does anyone think that if the international rules were the same as the NBA with a narrow key and longer 3 pt line that the US wouldn't win by 20 each game?

The team was set up wrong. Maybe goes back to my frustration with USA basketball when Steve Kerr was cut from the '88 team. The international 3 is set like a normal outside jumper - you need guys that can hit it blindfolded, and obviously this was not the case this year.

 

[Yuma]

I only watched one of the US women's games, and that was the gold-medal game yesterday against Australia. They certainly did not dominate the Aussies. In fact the outcome was very much in question until the fourth quarter.

NOW with the exception of Tim Duncan this US men's team consisted of second, third, and fourth string all-stars. The women's team was all of the very best WNBA players, and even they did not "dominate".

Yuma, you really needed another option that was something like "it's nothing to be proud of, but it's nothing to be ashamed of either."

Joe Mama

I wanted the poll to be pretty straight forward. I could have put tons of choices in there. We were talkiing at work, and all the young guys who were born after the cold war thought a bronze for the US would be good. Those of us that remember how the US lost the 1972 Olympic basketball finals because they were CHEATED out of the Gold, feel it's horrible how our guys don't seem to care when they are losing games in Athens. Billy Cunningham's blood still boils when he thinks of how the gold was taken from us by crooked Olympic officials in '72. The Olympics used to be about trying with 100% of your being. Now our guys lose a game, shrug their shoulders, and don't appear to care. That kinda ticks me off!

 

[Joe Mama]

I thought Allen Iverson acted like a jackass after he was suspended for the first exhibition game. I've never really liked him mostly because usually when he opens his mouth the dumbest things come out of it. As someone else said, you really can't question his heart or his desire to win though. And after those original comments about his suspension he has shown nothing but class.

It's frustrating that the best of the NBA players did not come to the games. I don't think you can compare them to the WNBA players though. The WNBA season isn't nearly as long. I don't believe that even the best WNBA players makes six figures, so there isn't nearly as much money at risk from suffering an injury in the Olympics.

I guarantee that's why Ray Allen declined. He's trying to negotiate a new contract, and he's extremely injury prone. Kevin Garnett just finished playing his longest NBA season at an extremely high level. He wants desperately to win an NBA title. Several of them had injuries they were trying to rehabilitate.

If I'm going to blame players who didn't go it's those that originally committed to the team then dropped out like Vince Carter, Mike Bibby, Tracy McGrady, etc.

BTW anybody else read this one?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/olympics/2004/writers/08/28/mccallum.ratings/index.html

Shawn Marion was the only one awarded the "four ring rating" from this writer. Here are the excerpts that talk about the two representatives from the Phoenix Suns.

Four rings
Shawn Marion. The U.S. doesn't win the bronze without Marion's 22 points and six rebounds against Lithuania. His shot is so ugly you're amazed that it ever goes in, but he shot over 50 percent from the floor. Give me zero rings, incidentally, for writing early on that Marion should be benched. As time went on, he improved and would seem to be a valuable national team member in the future.

Zero rings
Amare Stoudemire. He contributed an amazing windmill dunk against Lithuania and little else. Further, after the final two games, the loss to Argentina and the win over Lithuania, he stood at the bench and refused to join the midcourt handshake. What? He's flashing 'tude with the minor contributions he offered?

Joe Mama

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I heard KG passed because he is getting married, or just got married, during this off-season.

 

[Chaz]

A bronze medal is disappointing but it is nothing to be ashamed of. If we were left without a medal that would have been a disaster.

Argentina played great and they deserved to win those games. Seems like any of those final few games could have been the gold medal game. The winners of the two preliminary pools didn't get medals and that has never happened before. I thought it was a pretty balanced competition.

The United States team can be proud of their medal, even if the metal is a reminder that they fell short of their implied and stated goal.

 

[PhxGametime]

Well I decided to get out tapes of Q's Rookie year (watched all other years) and found 1 tape with USA (usually I have those set aside)... it was Goodwill Games from I believe 2000 against Argentina.

USA had more shooters - Mike Miller, Rashard Lewis, Baron Davis, Wally Szczerbiak, Jason Terry, Shawn Marion that I saw - along with Jermaine O'Neal, Kenyon Martin, Marcus Fizer, Andre Miller, Calvin Booth - don't know who other player was, didn't watch it all. USA were making 3PTers the few minutes I watched and end of 3rd Quarter were up by 20 (I didn't see Nocioni or Manu though) but just watching the minutes I watched, IMO shooting was REALLY missing this year... although Wally and Mike were weak on defense in 2000. There are a few players capable of shooting and defending and that should be considered finally for 2008.

The stupid tape ends after 3rd quarter though, so ARG could have made come back but USA hadn't lost with NBA players until 2002? Baron Davis is the PG that I believe should've been on this year's team - he played well at World Championships/Goodwills and compared to Iverson shoots: 2.8 3PT made to Iverson's 1.2, .32 percent (not great) but compared to Iverson's .29 percent. Regardless of who he would've replaced out of 3 PG's (although he could've of been hurt?), he can drive with authority, make a lot of 3PTers, factor on defense (2+ steals), and has the athleticism committee seemed to be after.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I saw a quote in paper today from Amare. Something about how in 2008 Wade, Lebron, Melo and himself will be in their prime, and hopefully they will bring back the dream team.

It definitely is possible. If each of these players matures as expected, that would be a hell of a challange. At this point it seems like most of them want to play again. The current NBA stars never made a big deal about playing in the olympics when they were younger to my knowledge. Hopefully their desire stays (and the chance to take back the gold), so they all play.



Of course the article later went on to say that as of now Duncan, who will only be 32 next olympics most likely won't play. "FIBA sucks"

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I heard KG passed because he is getting married, or just got married, during this off-season.

KG got married this summer, as did Ray Allen.



People made a big deal about the upper players not showing up, but most of them had legitimate excuses. The only main people I can think of are Shaq, TMAC and Jermaine Oneal who didn't have good reasons.

 

[George O'Brien]

It would have been nice to have a guy like T-Mac be told that no one would cover him for 40 minutes.

Realistically, the process of picking the players was screwed up at least partially by the fact that the 10 guys who refused to come back from the 2003 team informed the committee piecemeal. This meant that each player was viewed in isolation without anyone understanding what the teams overall needs would be.

I think that any knowledgeable fan could have picked a better team than the selection committee if they did the entire roster at once. Unfortunately, the criteria used was how to create more "star power" for up and coming players than in building a winning team.

 

[devilalum]

It would have been nice to have a guy like T-Mac be told that no one would cover him for 40 minutes.

Realistically, the process of picking the players was screwed up at least partially by the fact that the 10 guys who refused to come back from the 2003 team informed the committee piecemeal. This meant that each player was viewed in isolation without anyone understanding what the teams overall needs would be.

I think that any knowledgeable fan could have picked a better team than the selection committee if they did the entire roster at once. Unfortunately, the criteria used was how to create more "star power" for up and coming players than in building a winning team.

These guys all said they would go right after we lost the World Championships. Any excuse that doesn't involve injury is LAME.

The truth is that once the first guy dropped out it was like, "What KG isn't goin', then I'm not goin' either. Get my agent on the phone."

Do you think any of the swim team would have skipped the Olympics to get married?

I'd respect them all a lot more if they just told the truth which is that they just don't care about the Olympics, its just a waste of their time.

 

[F-Dog]

I didn't think this team had any shot at the gold when they started, so the bronze seems like quite an accomplishment to me--especially since the US had to beat Lithuania to get it.


I was actually positively impressed by the Olympic team; I guess that's what comes from starting out with low expectations. They always played hard, and they seemed to want to play well together. Everybody wanted to defer at the beginning, which is what killed their shooting IMO, but most of them seemed to overcome that by the quarterfinals.

If I had a problem, it was the team's defense. Jefferson was the only player they had that resembled a shut-down defender, of course, and with Odom and Boozer at the power positions...still, they were terrible throughout, when they should have improved at least marginally.

By the end, though, it looked to me like the team had a legit shot at a gold medal, except that Duncan couldn't stay on the court. The selection committee didn't send a backup center...one more reason why those idiots deserve an 'F'.


The only individual players who hurt their stock IMO were Melo and of course Pao Gasol, for throwing himself on the ground and having a tantrum when he disagreed with a call in the quarterfinals. (I'd like to see him try that one in a Memphis uniform next season. ) Everybody else held their own, and I have more respect for Odom than before.


Most importantly, they showed up, played hard and kept their egos in check, so they get brownie points for that.

 

[Joe Mama]

George, it might have been easier to pick a team if they had been able to do it all at once, but that's certainly is not an excuse. Once they had replaced many of the members they should have realized that they needed some shooting.

F-dog, I think you and I are pretty much in agreement here. I figured Argentina would win the gold medal from the get-go. I knew the US team would have shot, but there's no way I would put my money on them.

The only thing I disagree with this year assessment of Richard Jefferson's defense. Jefferson is a rather physical defender. However every time he played at physical defense he was getting whistled for fouls. I don't think that he was any more effective than the other wing players (except for Anthony who was terrible). I also don't think that for the most part Boozer played very well defensively.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

I think Duncan has to be considered the goat of the team. He "does the right things," I guess, but it was pretty clear that he didn't want to be there. If it wasn't clear before, it has to be clear now, with his comments that he won't be playing any more international ball because "FIBA sucks."

He has often said that he dislikes playing center -- the U.S. team, in fact, had zero real centers, not one -- and to me, that showed up in his play. He's willing to defend the interior on a regular basis, but it's not, apparently, something that he prides himself in; and on offense, to be blunt, he really isn't a good finisher when it gets crowded around the basket. In the NBA, he does much better when he has more room to operate. We can say that he got fouled a lot, but it can't be any worse than NBA playoff contact. The difference, I think, has to do with where he was setting up and what kind of space he had.

I like Duncan a lot, but my opinion of him took a couple of big steps down with this tournament.