Isaiah Simmons and the 5th year option

[speedy]

Isaiah is my favorite player in this org.

Axing him is so stupid and so cardinal.

Extend him.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

Yes! It’s not the player, it’s the coaching. Saw the same thing with Reddick

 

[Krangodnzr]

What’s the difference between the two?

A lot more splash plays.

 

[Solar7]

What’s the difference between the two?

Isaiah's already pacing well ahead of him in tackles, turnovers, and sacks.

The point isn't about player vs. player though, it's about potential. We've already experienced what it's like for someone to use a guy like Hasaan Reddick correctly only to end up with egg on our faces when he left.

Simmons has a dramatically greater athletic profile than most anyone you're going to find in FA.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I'm guessing Flores would want to keep him Simmons around

 

[QuebecCard]

Absolutely not.

Simmons gets the most leniency I ever seen on this team. Especially since he’s a clear bust.

Check out and compare Reddick's third-year stats with Simmons and get back to us.

 

[DVontel]

Isaiah's already pacing well ahead of him in tackles, turnovers, and sacks.

The point isn't about player vs. player though, it's about potential. We've already experienced what it's like for someone to use a guy like Hasaan Reddick correctly only to end up with egg on our faces when he left.

Simmons has a dramatically greater athletic profile than most anyone you're going to find in FA.

The Reddick comparison is so lazy.

Reddick was already a very good pass rusher in college. There was evidence of that. It was only until the bright mind of Steve Keim to move him to ILB, something he never did in college.

Simmons is playing the same position(s) he did in college. He’s not doing anything different he did at Clemson. He played a bit of ILB at Clemson, he has played ILB here. He has played a bit of slot CB at Clemson, he has played slot CB here. He has played a bit of Safety at Clemson, he has played Safety here.

The difference? He’s not surrounded by overwhelming athletes going against much more underwhelming athletes anymore.

UNLIKE Reddick, Simmons is doing pretty much the same thing he did in college. Playing all the positions he did in college…..and failing.

 

[DVontel]

A lot more splash plays.

With less consistency.

We watch the same games & I know you see him getting burnt in coverage in anything that isn’t a 9 route while filling in the wrong hole in the run game.

 

[QuebecCard]

The Reddick comparison is so lazy.

Reddick was already a very good pass rusher in college. There was evidence of that. It was only until the bright mind of Steve Keim to move him to ILB, something he never did in college.

Simmons is playing the same position(s) he did in college. He’s not doing anything different he did at Clemson. He played a bit of ILB at Clemson, he has played ILB here. He has played a bit of slot CB at Clemson, he has played slot CB here. He has played a bit of Safety at Clemson, he has played Safety here.

The difference? He’s not surrounded by overwhelming athletes going against much more underwhelming athletes anymore.

UNLIKE Reddick, Simmons is doing pretty much the same thing he did in college. Playing all the positions he did in college…..and failing.

About as lazy as your 'he's a bust' hot take.

 

[Krangodnzr]

With less consistency.

We watch the same games & I know you see him getting burnt in coverage in anything that isn’t a 9 route while filling in the wrong hole in the run game.

LOL the last year McMillan played a lot of snaps he gave up a 146 QB Rating. Simmons is far superior and it isn't even close. Simmons this year gave up a bad but not godawful 104 QB Rating.

I know you like to bag on Simmons and there are plenty of reasons, but Simmons is way better than McMillan.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The Reddick comparison is so lazy.

Reddick was already a very good pass rusher in college. There was evidence of that. It was only until the bright mind of Steve Keim to move him to ILB, something he never did in college.

Simmons is playing the same position(s) he did in college. He’s not doing anything different he did at Clemson. He played a bit of ILB at Clemson, he has played ILB here. He has played a bit of slot CB at Clemson, he has played slot CB here. He has played a bit of Safety at Clemson, he has played Safety here.

The difference? He’s not surrounded by overwhelming athletes going against much more underwhelming athletes anymore.

UNLIKE Reddick, Simmons is doing pretty much the same thing he did in college. Playing all the positions he did in college…..and failing.

Reddick looked like hot dog schiße his first few years rushing the passer. Sometimes it takes players finding the right fit for their game to take off. That's why so many free agents historically are busts.

 

[DVontel]

Reddick looked like hot dog schiße his first few years rushing the passer. Sometimes it takes players finding the right fit for their game to take off. That's why so many free agents historically are busts.

First few years?

He didn’t get to rush the passer until late in the 2019 season. That’s when he started opening eyes & he capitalized on it in the 2020 season.


The Reddick & Simmons comps are nothing alike in the slightest.

 

[Solar7]

The Reddick comparison is so lazy.

Reddick was already a very good pass rusher in college. There was evidence of that. It was only until the bright mind of Steve Keim to move him to ILB, something he never did in college.

Simmons is playing the same position(s) he did in college. He’s not doing anything different he did at Clemson. He played a bit of ILB at Clemson, he has played ILB here. He has played a bit of slot CB at Clemson, he has played slot CB here. He has played a bit of Safety at Clemson, he has played Safety here.

The difference? He’s not surrounded by overwhelming athletes going against much more underwhelming athletes anymore.

UNLIKE Reddick, Simmons is doing pretty much the same thing he did in college. Playing all the positions he did in college…..and failing.

Are you really trying to tell me that Reddick played against competition anywhere near in the same breath as Clemson, with anywhere near the results? It's laughable to think that Simmons only produced against inferior athletes when Reddick played against maybe four or five ranked teams in his career.

Vance has misused Simmons just like Reddick was misused, but Simmons has much greater physical ability and pedigree. There's really no arguing that.

 

[DVontel]

Are you really trying to tell me that Reddick played against competition anywhere near in the same breath as Clemson, with anywhere near the results?

Uh, yes? Maybe outside of FSU, who matches up to Clemson from an athletic standpoint? How is this not obvious to you? Good Lord. This is well known Clemson has the best athletes in the ACC. Who the hell is Temple athletically superior to in their conference?

Vance has misused Simmons just like Reddick was misused

Explain to me how Vance has misused Simmons. I'm not a Vance fan, but please elaborate to me how he screwed up with Simmons.

Vance has played him at ILB, OLB, slot CB, and Safety. ALLLLL the positions he played in college.

ILB - Mediocre
OLB - Mediocre
Slot CB - Liability
Safety - Mediocre


Reddick didn't play the position in the NFL he did in college until the last two years he was here. Hence, why we started to see positive results.

Simmons is playing the same exact positions he did in college. He's just obviously worse at all of them. It's not like Vance is playing the guy at a position he has never played before. He was put in a position to succeed much quicker than Reddick.

but Simmons has much greater physical ability and pedigree. There's really no arguing that.

And there's no arguing the results circulating around Simmons have been failing. There is absolutely no arguing that at all.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Absolutely not.

Simmons gets the most leniency I ever seen on this team. Especially since he’s a clear bust.

Busts do not have that many splash plays on defense which tells me they need to give him 'a' position so he can be consistent

 

[HairZach]

Simmons creates splash plays despite the mistakes. We should sign him long term before he has a breakout year that makes him too expensive.

 

[Solar7]

Uh, yes? Maybe outside of FSU, who matches up to Clemson from an athletic standpoint? How is this not obvious to you? Good Lord. This is well known Clemson has the best athletes in the ACC. Who the hell is Temple athletically superior to in their conference?

This has nothing to do with just conference, and more the level of other teams they played in inter-conference play and the CFP. In three career seasons at Clemson, Simmons played against 14 ranked schools, with the majority in the top 20 or higher. In four career seasons at Temple, they played ranked teams only 7 times, with the majority of those being against schools not even ranked above 20.

It goes without saying, Simmons played many more games against top talent than Reddick did. Comparing the American conference to the ACC is ridiculous, too.

Explain to me how Vance has misused Simmons. I'm not a Vance fan, but please elaborate to me how he screwed up with Simmons.

Vance has played him at ILB, OLB, slot CB, and Safety. ALLLLL the positions he played in college.

ILB - Mediocre
OLB - Mediocre
Slot CB - Liability
Safety - Mediocre

That's putting too much on a young player, and it's why Vance misused him. You need to give the guy time to master one thing before he moves onto another, although one can sprinkle in more concepts.

Reddick didn't play the position in the NFL he did in college until the last two years he was here. Hence, why we started to see positive results.

Simmons is playing the same exact positions he did in college. He's just obviously worse at all of them. It's not like Vance is playing the guy at a position he has never played before. He was put in a position to succeed much quicker than Reddick.

And there's no arguing the results circulating around Simmons have been failing. There is absolutely no arguing that at all.

Simmons needs more time under the right tutelage, and in the right spaces.

It's funny to me that you're pretending like Reddick was even dominant in college. He was good, but Simmons in one less year absolutely crushed him in tackles, turnovers, and only had 6 and a half less sacks.

 

[PDXChris]

Pick it up, extend him or let him walk?

Isaiah Simmons, Arizona Cardinals: $12,722,000 (playing time)

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

2023 NFL Free Agency: Fifth-Year Option Decisions for 2020 First-Round Picks

2023 Fifth-year option amounts for every eligible player form the 2020 NFL Draft class.

www.the33rdteam.com

 

[az jam]

Got to pick it up. I still feel he can be an impact player. Coaching has been the problem with his development.

 

[Solar7]

Just pick it up. That's not that terrible. You don't want him to have a breakout season with a new coach just to now have to hit him with the franchise tag or lose him entirely.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Just pick it up. That's not that terrible. You don't want him to have a breakout season with a new coach just to now have to hit him with the franchise tag or lose him entirely.

Yup, he'd be the next Reddick.

 

[PDXChris]

For comparison, Reddick's 5th year would have been about $10 million.

"Had they picked it up, he would have been scheduled to make around $10 million in 2021."

 

[PJ1]

Really want to see him with different coaching.

 

[kerouac9]

Absolutely not.

Simmons gets the most leniency I ever seen on this team. Especially since he’s a clear bust.

“Clear bust” is overstating it. It’s not like you can’t put him on the field. Brandon Williams was a clear bust.

Simmons is a disappointment. That said, with Keim gone I suspect we’ll decline the 5th year option. That’s a lot of money to spend on an ILB who isn’t a consistent pro bowler.

 

[HairZach]

Extend him while he's cheap. He's not where we want him, but he's not at a level where I'd want to show him the door.