It's a KK problem....Not a KM problem.

[SoCal Cardfan]

I get it... we're short-handed at CB, our #1 and #2 are our #3 and #4 respectively...

But our Defense is holding up much better than I could have hoped for given the above scenario.


KK is supposed to be an offensive genius....right? Am I the only one who has seen 20+ Murray dropbacks that could have gone for 10 plus yards easily on a keeper..... if a read option with a left or right rollout was the playcall???

The kid has seen far more deep zone coverage than his passing should dictate (IMO) Yet designed running plays for KM don't seem to be in the playbook.... RPO's don't even seem to be in the playbook.

DJ running out of shotgun isn't scaring anyone.... I don't want to see our #1 overall get beaten to a pulp from running, but if he doesn't at least threaten it... Then why the hell did we draft him #1 overall???

I resigned myself to accepting KM as the pick, because we seem to have no interest in building an offensive line....But so far, his ability to escape a pass rush, seems (maybe) just slightly better than Carson Palmers.

Get under center for at least a dozen more snaps per game KM...Maybe DJ might be able to be DJ again?


Or not.... I'm pissed, If we couldn't win this game....Name the upcoming game you think we have a chance in.... The tie won't hurt us IMO... we're not taking a first round QB 3 years in a row right???



Right?

 

[Jim Otis]

Right ! But , I can't rule out a different HC 3 years in a row . I will confess up right here , I touted double K as a perfect match with Murray,s skill set to execute the Air Raid Offence , some times one has to step to the plate , and say I'm leaning towards I was wrong. The first red flag was the Lions game early , K1 throws into coverage for the pick , then C Jones gets the the strip sack on the 34 yrd. line ( decent field position ) 1'st down call , DJ run , 2'nd down call , DJ run , 3rd down call , DJ run , 4th down punt . The impression that fell all over me was that K2 was afraid to have K1 throw the damn ball , I have been deep in his corner because of the limited times I saw him coach at TT , he had displayed some Riverboat Gambler in his makeup . Through 3 games in the pros , I have seen no sign of RBG . Yes it's early , but my clock on K2 is ticking .

 

[PJ1]

Our defense is a disaster. Anybody that watched the game yesterday and came away blaming the offense wasn't watching. That was not holding up anything by the D. The first two weeks they gave up a ton of yards also.

 

[Cardsfanstl]

Never can understand how bad this defense is against Tight Ends. Not just this year but for the past 10 years or so. Give up more yards to TE's than any team in the NFL. Has to be a personnel issue which is on the FO and coaches.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Well, if KK is the problem, then this organization has about 5 years before it can clean the mess they made of this roster and coaching staff.

And that is if they can figure out how to put NFL talent on the field.

The defense is getting run ragged, and its only going to get worse. But, that is what happens to "Air Raid" teams

The Cardinals pushed all chips to the table and the hype offense is looking to be....hype.

This not college.

The offseason "moved the needle", but the reality of PROFESSIONAL football is starting to hit home.

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Never can understand how bad this defense is against Tight Ends. Not just this year but for the past 10 years or so. Give up more yards to TE's than any team in the NFL. Has to be a personnel issue which is on the FO and coaches.

You have to draft inside linebackers in the draft.

You have to draft safeties over 5'9".

It is simple really.


Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[Cardsmasochist]

Our defense is a disaster. Anybody that watched the game yesterday and came away blaming the offense wasn't watching. That was not holding up anything by the D. The first two weeks they gave up a ton of yards also.

Agreed. Also K1 ran a lot yesterday especially in the first half


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[b8rtm8nn]

You have to draft inside linebackers in the draft.

You have to draft safeties over 5'9".

It is simple really.


Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

I wonder if Turner (safety turned ILB) will get a shot at this type of role. At least he is 6'2"

 

[SoonerLou]

Here's thing about Kliff and Kyler....

They really were apart of two different systems. Kyler was from an offense that featured the run game more. That wasn't so 4 wide heavy. That featured TE's (even a FB/H-Back!) to get the running game going and then set up the pass.

I believe in Kyler, but struggled in this similar system his freshman year at A&M. Now maybe he's just one of those guys who really hits the following year. However, on the college level Lincoln Riley adjusted his system for Kyler, but already had things built in for the run game.

Kliff's answer for some things is simply Kyler out running or scrambling around to make things happen. Thats what he counted on from Manziel.






@Russ Smith @Crimson Warrior
Kingsbury continued: "He just has that aura when he walks on the field. He just knows he's the best player, even at Alabama. … He's just so football instinctive that he can extend plays and keep you guessing then hit you with a 50-yard strike or outrun you 80 to the end zone. ... He made three throws late at Alabama that were as good as I've seen."


against Oklahoma," Kingsbury said of Austin's 344 yards on 21 carries. Manziel went for 229 yards on 17 carries and added 287 yards passing for a Cotton Bowl record 516 total yards.

And remember, Manziel isn't befuddling college defenses with a read-option scheme. Kingsbury said A&M ran no more than 10 option plays all season.



https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/9234917/johnny-football-nfl-prospects

Kliff got the Tech job because of Manziel. A lot of it was truly Manziel breaking free from the system and making stuff happen (ala Russell Wilson). Kyler isn't that kind of runner/scrambler. He's more like a point guard. He's not the make something out of nothing kind of guy.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I wonder if Turner (safety turned ILB) will get a shot at this type of role. At least he is 6'2"

It would be interesting.....but it is another example.

He was a safety, Reddick was a DE.

DRAFT A LINEBACKER!!!!!!!

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[Hoodhero]

For perspective, the Fangio led Broncos are 1st team ever with 0 sacks & 0 turnovers through 3 games. That is coming from a coach who has been touted as the best defensive mind in league with decades of NFL experience.

 

[Hoodhero]

For perspective, the Fangio led Broncos are 1st team ever with 0 sacks & 0 turnovers through 3 games. That is coming from a coach who has been touted as the best defensive mind in league with decades of NFL experience.

 

[Harry]

Clearly all Air Raid schemes are not the same. Look at KC. Reid has merged his offensive precepts with his QB’s skill set to let Mahomes shine, but not thrown out proven concepts. Will KK adapt to use Murray’s talent? Will he adjust his scheme to protect Murray better? Putting him under center and letting DJ pound would help. The D will not get much better even with PP. Still lots of teams with bad D have had good offenses.

 

[bojack]

Here's thing about Kliff and Kyler....

They really were apart of two different systems. Kyler was from an offense that featured the run game more. That wasn't so 4 wide heavy. That featured TE's (even a FB/H-Back!) to get the running game going and then set up the pass.

YES! Thank you! OU has a power run game and uses 12 personnel quite often. They are closer to those modern NFL offenses that everyone likes to point to than they are to KKs offense.

Where can I find stats on personnel and formation groupings? I feel like I can count on one hand the number of 2 TE sets and maybe 3 hands or 4 where I saw TE at all this season.

The KK offense as it exists right now dominating in the NFL is a fever dream until proven otherwise.

 

[Chopper0080]

Clearly all Air Raid schemes are not the same. Look at KC. Reid has merged his offensive precepts with his QB’s skill set to let Mahomes shine, but not thrown out proven concepts. Will KK adapt to use Murray’s talent? Will he adjust his scheme to protect Murray better? Putting him under center and letting DJ pound would help. The D will not get much better even with PP. Still lots of teams with bad D have had good offenses.

My main area of hope is that Kingsbury wants to get it right. He has sold me on that. I think Kyler wants to win bad enough to look at himself before blaming others and making excuses. That mentality generally works out in the end.

 

[SoonerLou]

Clearly all Air Raid schemes are not the same. Look at KC. Reid has merged his offensive precepts with his QB’s skill set to let Mahomes shine, but not thrown out proven concepts. Will KK adapt to use Murray’s talent? Will he adjust his scheme to protect Murray better? Putting him under center and letting DJ pound would help. The D will not get much better even with PP. Still lots of teams with bad D have had good offenses.

I guess it depends on Kliff's mindset.

He obviously knows he blew it with the handling of preseason.

However, he also knows this offense was a dumpster fire a year ago. So maybe in his mind he wants to run his system as is for a year because he's got nothing to lose. He's not following Arians or Whiz. He's following Wilks.

Mabe in his mind a full year of his system in the NFL will lead to more growth next year. Maybe even later this year.

Just depends on if Kliff thinks it could work once we get more experience/better players.

Or give it a full year before deciding to scrap some things.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I've said from day one that there is going to be major growing pains as KK and K1 learn to life in the NFL.

You have to learn to crawl before you can walk. In the NFL you are expected to run from opening day. The question is how long will the new Cardinals be given to learn how to play in the NFL.

 

[HGC]

Kingsbury is a bum head coach until he proves he’s not.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Pretty happy with Kingsbury so far, being a rookie HC in the NFL - with no NFL experience.

I watch Harbaugh, and I feel that this is how Kingsbury will coach over time - analyzing, and reanalyzing between games; going with his gut during the game.

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[bojack]

Clearly all Air Raid schemes are not the same. Look at KC. Reid has merged his offensive precepts with his QB’s skill set to let Mahomes shine, but not thrown out proven concepts. Will KK adapt to use Murray’s talent? Will he adjust his scheme to protect Murray better? Putting him under center and letting DJ pound would help. The D will not get much better even with PP. Still lots of teams with bad D have had good offenses.

True, but Air Raid in this day in age is almost a philosophy as opposed to unique plays that only exist in the Air Raid. Any offense that is using clearouts with rub or crossing routes is technically using Air Raid concepts even though they aren't routes exclusive to Air Raid. Same with using tempo or pass first or RPO. Those same concepts are used in other offenses also, but everything is in varying degrees.

The Air Raid tends to get less productive as a full time offense the further you move up the competition chain. Like in high school it is a big trend, and you see a lot of points in lesser conferences. But you see it used less in conferences and divisions in CFB where 4 and 5 stars are pretty common on many of the teams.

Using KC as a pro analogue is really not close to KKs extreme air raid. Their they made extensive use of TEs and Hunt was pretty productive on the ground in a pass heavy offense.

 

[bojack]

My main area of hope is that Kingsbury wants to get it right. He has sold me on that. I think Kyler wants to win bad enough to look at himself before blaming others and making excuses. That mentality generally works out in the end.

We share the same hope. The problem is turning around your scheme in the NFL is like trying to turn a cargo ship. It is a slow process and I think part of what will keep him from starting sooner than later in earnest is that I don't think we have the right players to be able to emulate something like a OU or KC offense. We don't have a joker, hback or even a power running back. It's pretty hard to get creative and trick up the D when you line up in the same formation with a one dimensional grouping on most plays.

I suspect if KM was installed in KC he would do well and it's not because I think KM is an elite QB (not yet at least) but because he is good enough because they have good players and good playcalling.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

I get it... we're short-handed at CB, our #1 and #2 are our #3 and #4 respectively...

But our Defense is holding up much better than I could have hoped for given the above scenario.


KK is supposed to be an offensive genius....right? Am I the only one who has seen 20+ Murray dropbacks that could have gone for 10 plus yards easily on a keeper..... if a read option with a left or right rollout was the playcall???

The kid has seen far more deep zone coverage than his passing should dictate (IMO) Yet designed running plays for KM don't seem to be in the playbook.... RPO's don't even seem to be in the playbook.

DJ running out of shotgun isn't scaring anyone.... I don't want to see our #1 overall get beaten to a pulp from running, but if he doesn't at least threaten it... Then why the hell did we draft him #1 overall???

I resigned myself to accepting KM as the pick, because we seem to have no interest in building an offensive line....But so far, his ability to escape a pass rush, seems (maybe) just slightly better than Carson Palmers.

Get under center for at least a dozen more snaps per game KM...Maybe DJ might be able to be DJ again?


Or not.... I'm pissed, If we couldn't win this game....Name the upcoming game you think we have a chance in.... The tie won't hurt us IMO... we're not taking a first round QB 3 years in a row right???



Right?

I seriously would not bet on 3 straight years of qb selections especially if a new GM/ head coach is hired next season it took Cleveland a while to find one didnt it although from what little I have seen so Mayfield isnt the world's greatest either

 

[GatorAZ]

Kyler went from LITERALLY having one of the greatest OL in CFB history to this mess. He also had three years in Riley’s system and learned from Baker. The learning curve is too steep right now and you can tell he’s rattled.

As for Kingbury the bigger worry should be not losing the team. If the defense had any kind of merit he could rely on Vance for that.

 

[gimpy]

Kingsbury is a bum head coach until he proves he’s not.

Ah. I like that. Guilty until proven innocent.

 

[SoonerLou]

Its a McVay problem...Not a Goff problem!

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I think they'll be alright over time. KK/KM that is