It's all half bad...

[King A]

Radio spot suggests JJ would like Suns return

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 31, 2005 12:00 AM

Joe Johnson asked the Suns last week not to match the offer sheet he can sign with Atlanta on Tuesday.

Johnson wants to play in Phoenix.

Can both be true? In free agency, where teams' wallets and players' skin need to be thick, Johnson may be proving to be a quality player again.
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It seemed inflammatory Friday when Johnson revealed to ESPN.com that he asked Managing Partner Robert Sarver not to re-sign him, particularly with Johnson saying it while in Toronto with Shawn Marion for Steve Nash's charity game.

But consider what Johnson also said Friday to Toronto's "The Fan" radio station when asked whether Phoenix was the best scenario for him.

"Probably so, more than likely so," Johnson said before a long, deep breath. "It's going to be tough. It's going to be real tough. Hopefully, everything will work out like we want it."

His posturing may have more to do with ensuring that a five-year offer that may be worth almost $72 million (with $18 million up front) is still on the table Tuesday.

There is no doubt that Johnson has been peeved. Those close to him said he was upset when Phoenix would not go up $5 million to meet his request for $50 million for six years last summer, when the Suns gave Quentin Richardson a six-year, $43.5 million deal.

He was further unsettled this month when Phoenix offered $60 million for six years and asked him to choose between it and the Atlanta offer at one point. That prompted his request to Sarver, who intends to match the Hawks' offer. He has a week to do so once Johnson signs Atlanta's offer.

"It's a lot of things," Johnson told ESPN.com when asked why he would want to leave Phoenix. "It's the way things were handled last summer, how things have been handled this summer. There's been some things going on that aren't great."

Johnson told a Little Rock television station recently that Phoenix was not doing anything extra to retain him, but it now appears he is taking some of the Suns' messages.

Phoenix prepared a full recruiting blitz for Johnson that would have been similar to the one that wooed Nash last summer. However, Johnson canceled a meeting in the first week of free-agency contact in order to seek his market value.

He found it with Atlanta, which sold Johnson on being in the South, playing point guard and being the star. But it would not be the first time Atlanta has been a pawn in free agency.

"They've been telling me how great of a city Phoenix is, and this and that," Johnson told The Fan. "There are a lot of things I already know. Of course, they don't want me to leave. They've just been showing me a lot of love right now.

"I'm just looking for the best situation for myself. I don't think it has more to do with one or the other. I would love to try to get a championship. But like I say, it's a business. You've got to go where you're comfortable. . . . Any decision I make, it doesn't really matter. It's a tough decision, but I think it's going to work out for the best."




http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0731suns0731.html

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Nice article. This is similar to what Joe, George, myself and others were saying about the comments. It is simply posturing for his contract. He has to act like he wants to leave, and part him might want that, in order to sell Atlanta on the deal.

He will come back to Phoenix and everything will be fine.

 

[clif]

I still don't get it though. ( and I have not read on the threads on it) I can't see why he would even feel the need to posture. $50 million $60 million $70 million... we won't be hurting any time soon, so why risk damaging your image?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I still don't get it though. ( and I have not read on the threads on it) I can't see why he would even feel the need to posture. $50 million $60 million $70 million... we won't be hurting any time soon, so why risk damaging your image?

He is posturing to make sure the 70 million gets offered. Atlanta has to feel like he wants to go there and isn't just using him. He can't go on air and say he really wants to come back to the Suns because that is a slap in Atlanta's face.

 

[Joe Mama]

I still don't get it though. ( and I have not read on the threads on it) I can't see why he would even feel the need to posture. $50 million $60 million $70 million... we won't be hurting any time soon, so why risk damaging your image?

do you mean " he won't be hurting any time soon?

Joe Mama

 

[clif]

He is posturing to make sure the 70 million gets offered. Atlanta has to feel like he wants to go there and isn't just using him. He can't go on air and say he really wants to come back to the Suns because that is a slap in Atlanta's face.

My point is that after the year the suns have had, the last thing that should be on anybody's mind it how they what to be the man when they work so well together as a team.

 

[clif]

do you mean " he won't be hurting any time soon?

Joe Mama

yeah.... that is what I meant to say... It's too early in the morning for proof reading

 

[Treesquid PhD]

you know if Sarver told him to decide then I would have said the same thing..."F-You"

Personally I don't like sarver he is a punk, maybe a decent business man but Joe Mama needs to go bitch slap some sense into this punk. What scares me is that when JC leaves this guy is going to be running the team without anyone to keep him in check.

I can see it now...
Whoever is the Suns GM in 2012 Bob Amare is the best player in the NBA and he is 28 years old just hitting his prime.

Bobby 1 finger: ohh jeezz but Salim is from UofA and I love Lute...oh pay him yeahhh 700millions Tuson Suns!!! screw Stat. where is the gorilla? we need to practice our routine for that new half time gig.

 

[clif]

I don't understand all the dislike for Sarver? The guy hasn't been on the job long enough for me to really form an opinion. Why do people keep saying he's cheap. He paid Nash and Q through the nose to come here, and the FO has said all along that they were going to pay JJ...so... I am confused as to what the "he's a cheap SOB" talk I keep hearing is all about?.

 

[cly2tw]

I have no problem with Sarver or his decisions so far. We'll see what it gonna lead the Suns to. No contract is signed yet, nor any trade other than the Q for KT one which people seem to like a lot. So, I'd give him some benefit of doubt.

If Atlanta were serious about getting Joe, they'd now come forward and offer s-n-t deals for him. As we all agree Joe being overpaid at the max deal, it'd be interesting to see which deal would make us let Joe go to the Hawks.

 

[PakistaniRambo]

yeah i dont understand the hate against sarver. first of all, he has stated he wants to do the business side of things as an owner, and leave the trades and such up to everyone else, aka the Colangelos. Last year he payed for both Q and Nash but not JJ. he was new to the job and the colangelos should have convinced him to sign him like they did Nash. But the thing is, no one was sure if JJ would really pan out. He only played well when we got rid of Penny and Marbury and had him run the team while Amare was injured. Everyone on the team was skeptical and rightfully so.

but on the other side, they were only 5 million off. if you spend that much money in one summer, 5 million is not a big deal. but if ur gonna blame sarver, blame everyone else too.

 

[PhxGametime]

Joe showed a lot of talent his first year here and has continued to get better. I was never sure why he got sooo many complaints - most of the players that members here look to Trade for are players in his same shoes... 10 PTS etc. (no great stats just yet) but with much upside and I can understand his mental approach that was questioned but most players don't put up the stats until 3rd year and on... I just cringe (is that the word) every time I see somebody post: well he only had 1/2 a year but that was 20 5 5 second half of season...


IMO the team should've paid him last year and I never really posted it but I just hated getting in those convos because of the whole JJ/Penny issue... there were many members here that hated Penny but yet there were many members that loved him... and Penny was once my favorite player etc. and sooo he wasn't the same player anymore etc.


Anywho, all that matters to me now, is match the offer... I was upset about Trading 1st Rounder and screwing up Draft 3 years in a row but enough about ME I'd probably be a little upset if I were JJ that the Suns tried to make him take offer or the Hawks but who cares - just match quick and let all the Suns fans or messageboards in peace again...

 

[Mad Psyentist]

you know...i posted the whole idea that he was just posturing all along in one of the other threads. I thought it was pretty obvious thats what he wanted all along...its what every free agent does to atlanta. Though im sure there were some that saw this too.

Him and his agent needed a realistic target to get some sort of outside interest besides the suns. Otherwise, the suns could set whatever price they wanted. They needed someone gullible enough to offer a max deal to a restricted free agent and atlanta was the perfect target...


of the teams under the cap...

Cleveland wouldve been good too, but they needed to know what status of their signings right away. They are all about pleasing Lebron and probably couldnt have afforded that kind of gamble. The delays in the CBA were to blame though. As of now, it even seems like they already have all the free agents they want already with deals.

LA clippers are notoriously cheap and werent an option.

NO and Charlotte are rebuilding and have made it known they wanted to rebuild through draft picks.

Milwaukee and Seattle were worried about keeping their own star players and probably couldnt afford to wait on JJ either, though in Seattles case, maybe they didnt want to spend that kind of money as well.

Maybe Denver wouldve been a good target originally, if not for the Najera FUBAR, but i doubt they wouldve had enough money to offer max in any case.


Trust me...to all those who are still worried about JJ not wanting to play here, he will be singing a different tune after he signs that offer sheet.

 

[Gorilla]

What's interesting about the comments made by JJ is the timing. A few weeks ago it was very uncertain if the Suns were willing to match the offer, then the Voshkul trade comes along. After the trade, it's almost a given that the suns would match the offer. Now JJ,Tellem and the Hawks know the suns intend to match. This could've diminished the interest the Hawks have in extending an offer sheet to JJ. Then he comes along and says all this BS about wanting to play in Atlanta and the interest from the Hawks is alive and strong, keeping the offer sheet in place.

He didn't say it earlier because no one knew if the suns were really willing to match. Of coarse this is just all a theory after all....

 

[Dustbuster]

The bigger issue with Sarver might have been after not signing off on his extension last year, it looked like at first they were trying to force JJ to choose between their offered contract and Atlanta's, rather than match it, as they had publicly stated they would do. This wouldn't endear the Suns to JJ, as the contracts were 6 years 60 million (Phx) vs. 5 years 70 million (Atlanta). You are talking a 4 million dollar per year difference between the two contracts. That's not a small difference at all.

To me the better option for the Suns would be to offer him more of a six year 75 million dollar contract. The cap hit would be a little less, we'd keep JJ a little longer, and it would be a better offer in some ways than the Atlanta contract. It appears that like last year, the Suns gambled on JJ - this year on him not getting a massive contract offer from someone else. That's twice now the Suns have gambled on JJ and have paid for it.

I think his preference is to be in Phoenix, but he may feel that he is not as valued as other recent signings where Phoenix has offered big contracts, fast, and really wined and dined its signees. They haven't really done that with JJ until now, which is a little late. I'm sure JJ's agent has really played these slights up, as they tend to do.

Although JJ is my favorite player, the Suns are my favorite team. I obviously want JJ to remain on the Suns, but I do hate for them to be crippled by his contract. I just hope that he really flourishes in the years to come and justifies the cost and the other subsequent moves that will result from him getting such a huge contract.

 

[tobiazz]

Joe showed a lot of talent his first year here and has continued to get better. I was never sure why he got sooo many complaints - most of the players that members here look to Trade for are players in his same shoes... 10 PTS etc. (no great stats just yet) but with much upside and I can understand his mental approach that was questioned but most players don't put up the stats until 3rd year and on... I just cringe (is that the word) every time I see somebody post: well he only had 1/2 a year but that was 20 5 5 second half of season...

The *only* thing that made me hesitant about the Suns extending JJ last year was his streaky shooting. Sure he was very young (~1.5 years older than the early developer Amare), but streaky shooters usually never become consistent. He could have ended up being the next Michael Dickerson.

 

[Joe Mama]

What's interesting about the comments made by JJ is the timing. A few weeks ago it was very uncertain if the Suns were willing to match the offer, then the Voshkul trade comes along. After the trade, it's almost a given that the suns would match the offer. Now JJ,Tellem and the Hawks know the suns intend to match. This could've diminished the interest the Hawks have in extending an offer sheet to JJ. Then he comes along and says all this BS about wanting to play in Atlanta and the interest from the Hawks is alive and strong, keeping the offer sheet in place.

He didn't say it earlier because no one knew if the suns were really willing to match. Of coarse this is just all a theory after all....

Exactly. He didn't anything until now because he didn't have to say anything. Up until the last few days there was a great deal of uncertainty about whether Sarver would be willing to match the offer. However in the last few days they not only traded Jake Voskuhl, but they let it be known through several sources that they were absolutely planning to match the offer.

The *only* thing that made me hesitant about the Suns extending JJ last year was his streaky shooting. Sure he was very young (~1.5 years older than the early developer Amare), but streaky shooters usually never become consistent. He could have ended up being the next Michael Dickerson.

Yes, but this is where I could see that he would point at the Q contract and call BS. Q is one of the most streaky players in the entire NBA. He hasn't made at least 40% of his field goals in three seasons. He definitely has more confidence than JJ did last summer. He's a little bit better on the boards, but overall JJ is/was a better player.

Of course keep in mind that this is coming from someone who does not fault Sarver for passing on the opportunity to sign JJ last summer for 6 years/$50 million.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Someone with more patience that myself could go back to last fall when JJ's renewal first came up. The problem was that JJ had not really proven himself.

At the time of the Marbury/Hardaway trade in Jan 2004, JJ was shooing roughly 39% from the field. Over the next month or so JJ took off and shot extremely well. But then after Amare came back, JJ's stats fell for a while and didn't really pick up until the last month.

What made things so hard was that JJ had gone on terror the last couple of weeks of the 2002-03 season, only to have a terrible start in 2003-04. Would JJ regress again? Did JJ have to be the focus of the offense to get his numbers? How would he mesh with Nash? There were a lot of legitimate questions and if the Suns signed him to a six year deal only to watch him regress to his early 03-04 stats, Sarver would have been described as an idiot.

JC and BC saw beyond the inconsistency and pushed hard to have JJ signed, but I'm sure there were others who weren't so sure. Perhaps this was Sarver being cheap, but it was not irrational cheap.

It turned out to be a huge mistake. For those of us who pushed for JJ being re-signed, it is easy enough to say "I told you so". But some of us are the same people who questioned signing Nash because he was too expensive and not a good enough defender.

We all make mistakes. It is harder when you have to pay for them with real money.

 

[Lars the Red]

First things first. At this point, I really like JJ's game. His ability to handle the ball, his defensive ability, his court awareness and his beautiful stroke make him a potential AllStar for years to come. But let's try to remember what we were looking at only a couple of years ago.

-He comes from Boston shooting 43% from the field, 27% from 3 Pt. He averaged 20 minutes a game, but less than 3 rebounds and 1.5 assists and 6 ppg.

-The remaining 29 games with the Suns he gets 31.5 mpg, shoots 42% and 33% from 3pt. Bumps the rebounds and assists, but also nearly triples his TO, and still only averages 9.6 ppg.

-His first full year with the Suns he averages 27.5 mpg, shoots 39.7% from the field and 36% from 3pt. 3 rebounds, 2.5 assists and still under 10 points a game.

-His next season he starts to show some improvement. 40 mpg, 43% from the field, but still only 30% from 3pt. 4.7 rebs, 4.4 assists, and 16.7 ppg. But still has trouble hitting many open shots.

It's at this time, Sarver spends cash on Nash and Q. Both are thought to bring a real change to the team. Joe is making real improvement, but the addition of Q is expected to make his contributions less critical. In a perfect world, the 5 million would have been spent, but given the inconsistancies of Joe's game and the already spendy off season, Sarver said, 'show me the game', and straight up told him in the press, 'have a great year and you'll make a pile of cash'.

Joe had a really solid year this season, and his ability to handle the ball and his improvement from 3pt range have put him head and shoulders above the rest, so much so that moving Q seemed like a minor sacrifice to get an inside presence. Now of course the world is harping on the fact that Sarver didn't pony up the money last season, which would now look like a steal. What if Joe had gone back to the streaky mode he'd made a standard in his game the last several seasons? What if he was only shooting 30% from 3pt range instead of almost 48%? What if Q had been bombing in at 48% and using his post up game to compliment that? Would we still be questioning Sarver's decision to wait and see?

I think we've all got a serious case of hindsight going, and tend to forget that we didn't really know what kind of player we had. I hope we sign Joe. If not, then I want the sign and trade. I don't think Joe is the only player we could put on the floor that would make this team better. He knows the other guys and is obviously comfortable with them, but he doesn't seem to appreciate his role with the team and potential for greater things. This entire scenerio has a 'McDyss' feel about it.

 

[F-Dog]

I think we've all got a serious case of hindsight going, and tend to forget that we didn't really know what kind of player we had. I hope we sign Joe. If not, then I want the sign and trade. I don't think Joe is the only player we could put on the floor that would make this team better. He knows the other guys and is obviously comfortable with them, but he doesn't seem to appreciate his role with the team and potential for greater things. This entire scenerio has a 'McDyss' feel about it.

The problem for the Suns is that Joe J fits the team's needs almost perfectly. The fact that he can guard PGs is absolutely vital--the Suns aren't going to beat the Spurs as long as Tony Parker is checked by Steve Nash--and Joe can also defend SGs and SFs, handle the ball, create offense and shoot threes. It will be tough to find another player who can do all that, especially on short notice.

I agree that there's a McDyess feel here, but at the time, the Suns would have taken McDyess back if they'd been able to, regardless of his feelings on the matter. Looks like we might find out with Joe whether that's a good idea or not.

 

[Joe Mama]

The problem for the Suns is that Joe J fits the team's needs almost perfectly. The fact that he can guard PGs is absolutely vital--the Suns aren't going to beat the Spurs as long as Tony Parker is checked by Steve Nash--and Joe can also defend SGs and SFs, handle the ball, create offense and shoot threes. It will be tough to find another player who can do all that, especially on short notice.

I agree that there's a McDyess feel here, but at the time, the Suns would have taken McDyess back if they'd been able to, regardless of his feelings on the matter. Looks like we might find out with Joe whether that's a good idea or not.

this is really not a lot like the Antonio McDyess fiasco. There are only a few similarities. Both of them are quiet and not especially aggressive. They both wanted to go somewhere else where they fell more love. However Phoenix was ready to give Antonio McDyess a maximum deal, more than Denver could give him, from the get go. That's the biggest difference in this. Also, no one out there doubted that Antonio McDyess was worth that maximum amount. The general consensus is that whoever pays JJ this maximum contract will be overpaying.

Joe