JJ needs to start

[ThunderCard]

O line missing blocks, tight ends not blocking at all, guards not pulling !!!!! Where would you like TH to run? He has 9 TD's with not much opened. IMO the kid will be a good running back once we incourage who ever is on the line next year to block. We are always fast to pull the plug. Thomas Jones, Hearst, Johnny Jones. Give him the time and the personal and he will be find.

GBR
40

Completely agree, however JJ should be the starter due to his game changing speed. Or maybe even 50/50 between JJ and Tim

 

[RolleRocks]

If Giants can ask a stud like Brandon Jacobs to share time, then it seems absolutely reasonable that the Cards can ask 5th-round Rookie Tim Hightower to share the load.

 

[slanidrac16]

JJ may very well be the best back for OUR offense.

Here is the problem as I see it with our running game.

We are built to throw the ball. Every run play takes away another opportunity to get the ball to Q, Fitz or Breaston. The way to fix our running game would be to go with a 2 tight end , 2 wr package and commit to the run. However, to do that we would be going away from what we do best. Opposing teams would LOVE for us to do that.

Don't change for the sake of change. We put up 29 points against the best defense in the NFC. If we continue doing what we are doing, if we continue scoring 30 points a game, we will win most of our games and will have a very good chance at winning them all.

When the time comes and we are in the playoffs and it 10 degrees with a -5 wind chill factor, THEN we can worry about adjusting our offense. But keep in mind, when that time comes our opponent will be facing the same elements and be forced to play the same type a game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese I agree Edges last three starts were not good but who were they against again?

in Edge's last 4 starts he had 9 for 29 against the Jets (bad numbers against a good rushing D), 21 for 57 against the Bills (bad numbers against a bad run defense, 20th in the league), 9 for 29 against Cowboys (who's run defense is mediocre) and 7 for 17 against the Panthers (bad numbers against a good defense). like Hightower had against the Giants), they were against ther Bills who

Shoot how about his last 4 which honestly were the bad games by Edge this season right? Jets only 9 carries but they have a good run D,

and he was bad against them, just like Hightower was against the Giants.

Buffalo pretty good D and undefeated coming in,

Buffalo's rushing D is ranked 20th. That's not a good D and it wasn't at the time.

Dallas pretty good coming into AZ and only 9 carries again,

Dallas was 4-1 because of their offense. Their D at that point was pretty mediocre and still is, ranked #12 in the league. A bad game against a mediocre D.

and Carolina a very tough team to run on and road game and only 7 carries.

Carolina is ranked 16th in rushing D and Edge was not only completely ineffective there, but had a huge fumble. So there you have an atrocious game against a completely mediocre run defense.

So maybe the hardest stretch of our season he struggles on very few carries and he's done? Really? TH has played much easier Defenses (except Gmen) and done far worse than Edge was doing against good defenses?

I just don't see how he did "far worse" against much easier defenses. Do you realize that the 49ers rank better against the run than Carolina and Buffalo? Do you realize that Seattle is ranked only two spots below Buffalo's rushing D?

They both faced one tough as nails rushing D (the Giants and Jets) and failed miserably against them and then faced a a bunch of mediocre rushing Ds... and failed miserably.

I don't see your logic to go with youth when he is not getting it done sorry. [/QUOTE]

I just don't see how Edge was getting it done. AND we know now that Edge skipped the team's only practice during the bye week, was already chirpping about not getting the ball enough after the Carolina game and had asked for his outright release. That guy is not only not getting it done ON the field, but he's a problem OFF it. That's not a guy I want on my football field if I'm the coach.

Edge is CONSISTANT

he was just as consistently bad as Hightower. You can say he played tougher teams, but he didn't play tougher run defenses, and it didn't matter good, bad or mediocre, he wasn't getting the job done against them.

I will take the consistant 3rd and shorts over all the 3rd and longs we are seeing since TH took over.

do you have ANY proof that we're facing more 3rd and longs now than we were before? Our scoring hasn't suffered at all since Edge was benched. The running game has basically stayed the exact same and our ppg have actually gone up. Why play the washed up guy who doesn't want to be on the team when there's no drop off in production with the young guy?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Buffalo, Dallas, and Carolina do not have good run defenses at all. All three are average to below average. Rankings in YPC of 21st, 17th and 14th.

Surprisingly 49ers run D is the second best only the Jets better then them.

YPC rankings of the last 4 teams Edge played - 4, 21, 17, 14.
YPC rankings of the last 4 teams TH played - 28, 7, 14, 9.

There was not an advantage or disadvantage in terms of caliber of run D teams faced when comparing Tim to Edge.

i've yet to see Nashman respond to this point, no matter how many times someone makes it.

 

[Redrage]

Hightower is a great story and I'm glad we drafted him. He and Edge are similar enough that at this point in their carreers I give it to the rookie (more burst).

Going forward, I'd like to see the Cards draft a more balanced back. Hightower and JJ can certainly spell the number 1 in certain situations, but neither seems up to being a #1.

Hightower reminds me of another one of my favorites Cards running backs, Marcel Shipp. Always good enough to turn the occassional head, but ultimately not talented enough to be a featured back. Hope he proves me wrong.

 

[nashman]

Whatever guys the teams Edge ran against are and were much tougher teams than the chumps TH has been failing against. Call it however you want, keep riding that TH train of failure. 9TDs so what Edge could have 9 if they handed him the ball at the 1 or 2 yard line everytime they got there too. TH has played bad you guys forget that when we were 4 and 2 Edge wasn't doing bad then some tough teams and hes over the hill? You guys are a joke. Carry on with your Hightower lovefest, hopefully we draft a real back because TH is NOT IT!!

 

[Russ Smith]

Whatever guys the teams Edge ran against are and were much tougher teams than the chumps TH has been failing against. Call it however you want, keep riding that TH train of failure. 9TDs so what Edge could have 9 if they handed him the ball at the 1 or 2 yard line everytime they got there too. TH has played bad you guys forget that when we were 4 and 2 Edge wasn't doing bad then some tough teams and hes over the hill? You guys are a joke. Carry on with your Hightower lovefest, hopefully we draft a real back because TH is NOT IT!!

I respect Edge but he's not exactly doing much to earn his job back. Skipping meetings and a practice, asking to be cut. And since he got benched he has 4 carries for 4 yards with a long of 3. Obviously that's not many carries but if you're trying to win your job back you have to excel in the limited time you get.

Arrington was buried early, inactive several games, but when he finally got active he contributed and has earned more PT. Edge is doing a nice job coaching the young RB's but he's done nothing on the field to earn more carries.

Even going back the games before he got benched he has a total of 11 carries for 21 yards, under YPC, long of 10 and the one huge lost fumble against Carolina.

I agree TH probably isn't the long term solution to our RB issues, but there's nothing to suggest that he's not as good or better than Edge right now.

 

[Spielman]

Whatever guys the teams Edge ran against are and were much tougher teams than the chumps TH has been failing against.

Just a quick comparison of the rankings of the defenses faced by James and Hightower. Yardage is listed, then average per carry, and then the opponent's rank, first by raw yardage allowed, and then by yards per carry.

It's actually striking how few bad run defenses the Cards have faced. The Rams are legitimately putrid, but the Cards ran well against them. The Bills are bad, and they didn't do that great. Other than that, even the Seahawks aren't that terrible when you look at the average per carry allowed. It's obvious that part of their bad raw ranking is teams choosing to run more late in games they're out of.

James
Week 1 SFO - 100 yards, 3.8 per carry. 14th, 7th.
Week 2 MIA - 55 yards, 3.1 per carry. 9th, 9th.
Week 3 WAS - 93 yards, 5.2 per carry. 7th, 11th.
Week 4 NYJ - 29 yards, 3.2 per carry. 3rd, 4th.
Week 5 BUF - 57 yards, 2.7 per carry. 20th, 22nd.
Week 6 DAL - 29 yards, 3.2 per carry. 10th, 17th.
Week 8 CAR - 17 yards, 2.4 per carry. 17th, 14th.

Hightower
Week 9 STL - 109 yards, 5.0 per carry. 30th, 29th.
Week 10 SFO - 22 yards, 1.7 per carry. 14th, 7th.
Week 11 SEA - 35 yards, 3.2 per carry. 22nd, 14th.
Week 12 NYG - 21 yards, 1.9 per carry. 6th, 9th.

 

[RolleRocks]

Whatever guys the teams Edge ran against are and were much tougher teams than the chumps TH has been failing against. Call it however you want, keep riding that TH train of failure. 9TDs so what Edge could have 9 if they handed him the ball at the 1 or 2 yard line everytime they got there too. TH has played bad you guys forget that when we were 4 and 2 Edge wasn't doing bad then some tough teams and hes over the hill? You guys are a joke. Carry on with your Hightower lovefest, hopefully we draft a real back because TH is NOT IT!!

In 2 1/2 years, Edge has done nothing for this team.

20-25 short carries per game.

The guy never broke a long gainer.

In fact, our opponents were no longer even respecting him as a threat.

Is Hightower the answer?

Time will tell. No one is declaring him the savior of our running game.

I think JJ should be given more opportunities myself. JJ has the speed to make plays in our spread offense.

But, as for the Edge, it's ludicrous to portray his time in the desert as anything special!!!!

 

[SuperSpck]

In 2 1/2 years, Edge has done nothing for this team.

20-25 short carries per game.

The guy never broke a long gainer.

In fact, our opponents were no longer even respecting him as a threat.

Is Hightower the answer?

Time will tell. No one is declaring him the savior of our running game.

I think JJ should be given more opportunities myself. JJ has the speed to make plays in our spread offense.

But, as for the Edge, it's ludicrous to portray his time in the desert as anything special!!!!

Before Edge, name the last back-to-back 1,000 yard rusher. It may not be special, but it's sad.

Edge's signing in itself was big news for the organization. He still had something left to give the team, and no mistake, he did. It was one of the "turn-the-corner" moves for the franchise and should not be confused with the signing of Emmit Smith.

On most teams what Edge did may have not been special, but in the special land of suck the Cardinals have spent most of the last TEN YEARS in, he was something special.

You don't have to like the man, but respect the man.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

But, as for the Edge,(unless your nashman) it's ludicrous to portray his time in the desert as anything special!!!!

fixed

 

[RolleRocks]

Before Edge, name the last back-to-back 1,000 yard rusher. It may not be special, but it's sad.

Edge's signing in itself was big news for the organization. He still had something left to give the team, and no mistake, he did. It was one of the "turn-the-corner" moves for the franchise and should not be confused with the signing of Emmit Smith.

On most teams what Edge did may have not been special, but in the special land of suck the Cardinals have spent most of the last TEN YEARS in, he was something special.

You don't have to like the man, but respect the man.

Respect has to be earned.

Edge pranced in here, all big time, and treated everybody in this organization like they were jokes....like he was better than them.

And then what did he do?

He played like a chump.

And after 2 1/2 years of weak play, he has the gall to ask the Cardinals to pay him the rest of this years salary and then release him.

Are you kidding me?

Sorry, but I don't respect that at all.

You can have him.

If it were up to me, I'd deactivate him and let him carry a clipboard with gym shorts and a baseball hat.

 

[SuperSpck]

Respect has to be earned.

Edge pranced in here, all big time, and treated everybody in this organization like they were jokes....like he was better than them.

That's speculation. Are you in the locker room, are you in the front office? Lots of players have only nice things to say about Edge publicly. That could chance when he's released, but for now that's the word.

And then what did he do?

He played like a chump.

And after 2 1/2 years of weak play, he has the gall to ask the Cardinals to pay him the rest of this years salary and then release him.


If it were up to me, I'd deactivate him and let him carry a clipboard with gym shorts and a baseball hat.

I'm don't like the way he's handling his situation now, but I don't agree with the assertion that he's been a "chump" since he walked in the door.

JJ Arrington and Marcel Shipp wouldn't have gotten the yards Edge did the last two years. He got 1-4 yards when they weren't there. The problem was that he'd 1-4 yards when there was more to be had.

He was a small step in the legitimizing of these new Cardinals and I'm going to tip my cap to him and wish him better luck with another team next season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Whatever guys the teams Edge ran against are and were much tougher teams than the chumps TH has been failing against.

you're response to actual statistical data that the run defenses both faced are pretty equal is: Whatever. Good argument there.

Call it however you want, keep riding that TH train of failure.

that "train of failure" is still part of an offense that's averaging 29 ppg. a little bit better than when Edge was in there.

9TDs so what Edge could have 9 if they handed him the ball at the 1 or 2 yard line everytime they got there too.

really? How come Edge didn't have 9 TDs last year when the offense was just as good?

TH has played bad you guys forget that when we were 4 and 2 Edge wasn't doing bad then some tough teams and hes over the hill?

a lot of us were saying he was over the hill then also. And the coaches started agreeing us with us or do you not remember that Edge was basically benched the entire second half against Dallas?

You guys are a joke.

and, there's the insult we've all been waiting for.

Carry on with your Hightower lovefest, hopefully we draft a real back because TH is NOT IT!!

and here's where Nashman complete ignores or misunderstands that just because most of think Edge is completely finished doesn't mean we have a lovefest for Hightower. Pretty much everyone's aware that Hightower ain't the bees-knees. You already dismissed the argument that the run defense have been similar with the strong, well thought out "whatever" argument, you've called a bunch of people a joke and now you distort their opinions. as usual, kudos to you Nashman.

 

[nashman]

Kudos to you cheese for being ... well yourself I guess! And anyone who discounts Edges' time in Az., nevermind not worth it. We will just see how it plays out, right now our run game looks like crap as well as TH. And you all can say what you want go back and watch the first 5 or 6 games of the season and the last 5 or 6 of last season and it wasn't as bad as it has been the last 3 games. Bring up all the stats you want it means nothing WATCH the games the offense clicks better when its not constantly 3rd and long because TH gets hit for losses far to often.

Cheese you keep bringing up score totals and that falls under no shi# we score more against crap ass teams than we do against better ones! Shocker! The only time the offense remotely looks in sync the last few games is when Warner throws and doesn't hand to TH at all. Again I just happen to disagree that TH makes this offense better right now, its called an opinion, and have heard many others with the same. Edge is a HOF back whether some like it or not, he shouldn't be getting 1 freaking carry a game when the rookie thats starting is struggling badly.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kudos to you cheese for being ... well yourself I guess! And anyone who discounts Edges' time in Az., nevermind not worth it. We will just see how it plays out, right now our run game looks like crap as well as TH.

the run game looks just like it did with Edge in there as does the rest of the offense.

And you all can say what you want go back and watch the first 5 or 6 games of the season and the last 5 or 6 of last season and it wasn't as bad as it has been the last 3 games. Bring up all the stats you want it means nothing WATCH the games the offense clicks better when its not constantly 3rd and long because TH gets hit for losses far to often.

I'm still waiting for you to show actual proof that we're facing more 3rd and longs now than we were with Edge. Do you have ANY proof of this? Is our conversion rate on 3rd down worse now? Do you have any proof of that? Or is your response going to be: Whatever!

Cheese you keep bringing up score totals and that falls under no shi# we score more against crap ass teams than we do against better ones!

we just scored 29 points against one of the best teams in football. It doesn't matter who we play or who's in the back field. We score 29 ppg.

Shocker! The only time the offense remotely looks in sync the last few games is when Warner throws and doesn't hand to TH at all.

that was the case with Edge as well.

Again I just happen to disagree that TH makes this offense better right now, its called an opinion, and have heard many others with the same.

no one's begrudging you your opinion. We're just saying we believe it's wrong and we give our reasons why. Just as you have your opinion, we have ours. Difference is we back our opinions up with something more than "Whatever" or calling others a joke.

Edge is a HOF back whether some like it or not,

Edge is a running back who will be in the HOF but he's not a HOF running back right now. What will get him into the Hall will be what he did his first 8-10 years in the league. That doesn't mean that once that guy is past his prime (which Edge is) that he should continue to start just because one day he'll be inducted into the HOF. Do you think the Seahawks shouldn't have cut Shaun Alexander and that he should still be starting in Seattle. Afterall, he's a HOFer.

he shouldn't be getting 1 freaking carry a game when the rookie thats starting is struggling badly.

he's not as effective as he used to be, has skipped practiced, team meetings and has asked to be cut. tell me why that guy SHOULD be getting on the field?

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

I can't figure you nashman, did Edge come visit you in a hospital or something?

3.5 ypc avg is 3.5 is 3.5 etc... etc... etc...

 

[Duckjake]

Before Edge, name the last back-to-back 1,000 yard rusher. It may not be special, but it's sad.

Edge's signing in itself was big news for the organization. He still had something left to give the team, and no mistake, he did. It was one of the "turn-the-corner" moves for the franchise and should not be confused with the signing of Emmit Smith.

On most teams what Edge did may have not been special, but in the special land of suck the Cardinals have spent most of the last TEN YEARS in, he was something special.

You don't have to like the man, but respect the man.

Not to take anything away from James but before Edge we didn't have one back who got all the carries. The last Cardinal RB to get over 300 in a season was Ottis Anderson in 1981.

We did have a two back combination that went over 1000 yards every year from 2000-2004 with about the same number of carries combined that James got every year.

On the other hand James came to the Cards after a season in which the Cards had probably their worst rushing performance in franchise history.

Shipp and Arrington combined for 821 yards, a 3.05 avg and only 2TDs.
1999 was just as bad but they at least scored 13 rushing TDs.

 

[DoTheDew]

The RB's aren't really the problem. Every back that comes here as a free agent does worse than his previous team, and backs that did nothing here tend to be better else where (Thomas Jones anyone?). I honestly don't think AP would be doing that great here. He'd probably be better than what we've had but our run game would still bad bottom half of the league IMO.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

The RB's aren't really the problem. Every back that comes here as a free agent does worse than his previous team, and backs that did nothing here tend to be better else where (Thomas Jones anyone?). I honestly don't think AP would be doing that great here. He'd probably be better than what we've had but our run game would still bad bottom half of the league IMO.

Our free agent backs have been basically guys who were on their last legs, looking for one more fat payday based on past accomplishments.

That being said.. yes our run game is, and has been pathetic forever, I know Whis wants a powerful run game, but right now he's just going with a stacked passing team that he didn't build in his own image, but I admire him for going with the teams obvious strength.

People can piss and moan all day about our running game, but our t.o.p is right up there with most of the more balanced teams, and we score plenty of points... So lets ***** more about the defense and special teams.