Jones cleared...Police Detective says Jones hand not broken in fight..

[EndZone]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/0521cards0521.html

Prosecutors in Scottsdale decided not to pursue charges against Cardinals running back Thomas Jones for an alleged assault last year.

"I didn't think we had a substantial case," Scottsdale police Det. Dan Rincon said. "There's no doubt in my mind that the victim did get beaten up there."

But Jones wasn't the man who delivered the beating, Rincon said. There were no independent witnesses to the event, in which Maurice May alleged that Jones assaulted him at Sanctuary on Nov. 17, Rincon said.

Jones has denied the allegations, saying he was home at the time. Jones played in the Cardinals game that day in Philadelphia and said he went home after the team returned to the Valley that night.

Some speculated about whether the incident could have been the source of a broken hand Jones suffered last fall.

The evidence points against that theory, Rincon said.

Jones reported the injury six days after the fight allegedly took place and would have participated in drills and weight-lifting exercises during that week, Rincon said.

"With the fracture that he suffered, it would be excruciating to tolerate," Rincon said. "He wouldn't have been able to hide it."

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Well, hopefully this will finally put to rest the issue of Thomas Jones' off the field antics...

I wonder how this will affect the Cardinals ability to trade him, or perhaps reconcile with him to provide better depth at RB. The one thing I have always heard about Jones is that trys to learn what he can from those ahead of him on the depth chart because he wants to be "The Man". With a solid performer on the roster like Emmitt, I can only wonder if this is Jones' opportunity to finally "get it".

From all accounts, Emmitt is providing an excellent example to the other RB's with his workout habits and work ethic. We all know that Shipp and Anderson are benefiting, perhaps Jones will as well.

As much as I like Shipp, I still think Jones is better suited with tools to succeed in the NFL. It's all a matter of attitude in my opinion, and I hope Jones does indeed "get it" and make us a better ballclub this year.

 

[Ed B]

I hate to be nitpicky here, but much like the David Boston situation, remember that there is a difference between "innocent" and "police not pressing charges".

The fact that Jones isn't being charged with anything doesn't automatically "clear" him in the incident. Maybe they simply didn't have enough evidence. Maybe they gave him an athlete's free pass. Or maybe he's totally innocent. The point is, you can't say conclusively which one it is.

Regardless I think Graves has made it clear that Jones's cardinal career is over, as evidenced by his minicamp absence.

 

[EndZone]

I don't disagree that he is done here. I was just posting the article because it said that Jones had worked out, lifted weights, and practiced for 6 days after the said incident occured. Sounds like the report was false. Someone got in a fight that night and tried to get some dough out of it.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by EndZone
I don't disagree that he is done here. I was just posting the article because it said that Jones had worked out, lifted weights, and practiced for 6 days after the said incident occured. Sounds like the report was false. Someone got in a fight that night and tried to get some dough out of it.

Well, athletes' wallets have a big target painted on them (look at the Plummer situation).

But to say that jones's story about breaking his hand on the phone is "unconvincing" would be an understatement.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Ed B
I hate to be nitpicky here, but much like the David Boston situation, remember that there is a difference between "innocent" and "police not pressing charges".

The fact that the officer quoted in the story says:

"But Jones wasn't the man who delivered the beating"

-and-

"Some speculated about whether the incident could have been the source of a broken hand Jones suffered last fall. The evidence points against that theory"

Kind of makes it sound like this is a case of Jones being innocent.

I'm not saying the the "I was answering the phone theory" holds any watter, but here we have a police detective saying that Jones wasn't involved in this incident.

I know Graves has said that Jones is out the door one way or another. But I don't see too many teams trying to do anything to get Jones, except trying bend the Cardinals over the barrel.

Cutting Jones saves no money for the Cardinals, he either gets traded or stays for one more year.

All I'm saying is that the Cardinals need to make the best of it, one way or another.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Ed B
I hate to be nitpicky here, but much like the David Boston situation, remember that there is a difference between "innocent" and "police not pressing charges".

The fact that Jones isn't being charged with anything doesn't automatically "clear" him in the incident. Maybe they simply didn't have enough evidence. Maybe they gave him an athlete's free pass. Or maybe he's totally innocent. The point is, you can't say conclusively which one it is.

Regardless I think Graves has made it clear that Jones's cardinal career is over, as evidenced by his minicamp absence.

What part of the following statement don't you understand, Ed:

"But Jones wasn't the man who delivered the beating, Rincon said."

 

[Ed B]

Before the draft, when we were being offered low picks for Jones, Graves said he'd "rather cut Jones than accept a 7th rounder".

Coupled with Jones's absence at minicamp, I'd say that all signs point against the presence of Jones on our 2003 roster.

Jeez, you want to talk about a distraction? You think Emmitt Smith has the potential to be a whiner, wait till you see how much clubhouse disharmony a former top 10 pick riding pine as a 3rd stringer could cause.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by Northern Card
What part of the following statement don't you understand, Ed:

"But Jones wasn't the man who delivered the beating, Rincon said."

Well, the part I "don't understand" is that this phrase came 2 seconds after the detective said there were no witnesses.

 

[Russ Smith]

Which begs the question what did the Cards know that led them to not pay Jones? If the police aren't pressing charges but the Cards denied payment to Jones it suggests the Cards think they have enough evidence of how Jones really hurt his hand, but the police aren't convinced.

THe only other thing I can think of is that IF Jones really did hurt his hand hanging up the phone, that TOO is a non football injury and that's why we chose not to pay him but that seems unlikely even for Bidwill.

Hope it makes him more tradeable.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

CASE NOT CLOSED

Good for the police. They figured out something. (not that I hate the police, I just hate bad, corrupted cops who plant stuff on kids and arrest them)

But have they solved where Thomas Jones talent went once he left college. Start the investigation back up because his ability to hit a hole his be robbed, too.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Re: CASE NOT CLOSED

Originally posted by RugbyMuffin
Good for the police. They figured out something. (not that I hate the police, I just hate bad, corrupted cops who plant stuff on kids and arrest them)

But have they solved where Thomas Jones talent went once he left college. Start the investigation back up because his ability to hit a hole his be robbed, too.

If memory serves, Scottsdale's finest dectective, I.P. Freeley is working on that. But Det. Freeley has to split is time between the search for Jones' missing talent, and the murder of Bob Crane.

 

[Ed B]

Actually, I think they're still looking for the killers of Laura Palmer.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Which begs the question what did the Cards know that led them to not pay Jones? If the police aren't pressing charges but the Cards denied payment to Jones it suggests the Cards think they have enough evidence of how Jones really hurt his hand, but the police aren't convinced.

THe only other thing I can think of is that IF Jones really did hurt his hand hanging up the phone, that TOO is a non football injury and that's why we chose not to pay him but that seems unlikely even for Bidwill.

Hope it makes him more tradeable.

The detective and his overall statements would lead me to believe that TJ is innocent of that altercation. Howevor the answering the phone thing is still fishy, but honestly wierd and freaky household acccidents happen all the time so it is not beyond the realm of possability!

That being said Russ even if it was answering the phone they still wouldnt have to pay him right since it was a non-football injury right?

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Shane H
The detective and his overall statements would lead me to believe that TJ is innocent of that altercation. Howevor the answering the phone thing is still fishy, but honestly wierd and freaky household acccidents happen all the time so it is not beyond the realm of possability!

That being said Russ even if it was answering the phone they still wouldnt have to pay him right since it was a non-football injury right?

That's what my 2nd paragraph was about. But I'm not sure even Bidwill is "stingy" enough to deny payment because of a freak injury. It really implies to me the Cards believed Jones lied which is why I asked what did the Cards think they knew that the police were unable to corroborate?

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by Cardinals.Ken
Well, hopefully this will finally put to rest the issue of Thomas Jones' off the field antics...

I wonder how this will affect the Cardinals ability to trade him, or perhaps reconcile with him to provide better depth at RB.

I was wondering the same thing myself when I heard about this.

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
That's what my 2nd paragraph was about. But I'm not sure even Bidwill is "stingy" enough to deny payment because of a freak injury. It really implies to me the Cards believed Jones lied which is why I asked what did the Cards think they knew that the police were unable to corroborate?

I dont think they knew anything they are far from a trained police investigator.

They just heard some bozo claiming that he was beat-up by Jones and I think the Cardinals decided to use that as an excuse not to pay TJ since the phone theory is somewhat fishy.

Either way no matter how it turned out they still had a right not to pay him.

 

[Ed B]

Let's review the good officer's statement one more time.

They couldn't charge Jones because there were no unbiased witnesses (meaning the only witnesses were either friends of Jones or friends of the victim) but somehow they know conclusively that Jones didn't do it.

Hmm.

Regardless, I agree with Russ that (for right or wrong) the Cardinals thought Jones's phone story was a load of bull and didn't wait for the police to make a decision before making their own decision.......which was to refuse to pay Jones.

I also agree with Shane that the Cardinals were within their right here. The injury was non-football-related. If they're charitable they could have decided to pay him even though they didn't have to, but since they obviously didn't believe jones's story they declined, as the NFLPA and Owners have agreed.

 

[AzKarl]

Originally posted by Cardinals.Ken
The fact that the officer quoted in the story says:

"But Jones wasn't the man who delivered the beating"

-and-

"Some speculated about whether the incident could have been the source of a broken hand Jones suffered last fall. The evidence points against that theory"

Kind of makes it sound like this is a case of Jones being innocent.

I'm not saying the the "I was answering the phone theory"
holds any watter, but here we have a police detective saying that Jones wasn't involved in this incident.

I know Graves has said that Jones is out the door one way or another. But I don't see too many teams trying to do anything to get Jones, except trying bend the Cardinals over the barrel.

Cutting Jones saves no money for the Cardinals, he either gets traded or stays for one more year.

All I'm saying is that the Cardinals need to make the best of it, one way or another.

I have a friend who lived in an apartment complex where several Cardinals live. He was told that Thomas Jones put his hand through a wall in his apartment over frustration about his playing time and deteriorating relationship with the team. He then concocted the answering the phone incident hoping his pay would not be docked in an accident versus the self inflicted injury. To TJ's chagrin the Cardinals still docked his pay because they knew the real story. Doesn't anyone feel that Jones would have filed a grievance over docked pay with the union if it was indeed a legitimate accident? The fact that he did not speaks volumes.

 

[ChiCard]

Well it's the classic "he said she said" now isn't it? I will say it's most unusual for a policeman to be quoted in the media as saying "so and so" is not the person who committed the offense. Strikes me as odd. When Johnny the drug dealer is rousted and the police toss his car on Scottsdale Road they don't put a story out to the media that says "anyone who saw us rousting Johnny yesterday, we were wrong, he wasn't the guy" so there's a level of favoritism present but I'm glad they said what they said because it will hopefully help us unload the guy because he's burnt his bridges here, Garrison Hurstitis not withstanding.

 

[phinius]

Originally posted by Cardinals.Ken
Well, hopefully this will finally put to rest the issue of Thomas Jones' off the field antics...

I wonder how this will affect the Cardinals ability to trade him, or perhaps reconcile with him to provide better depth at RB. The one thing I have always heard about Jones is that trys to learn what he can from those ahead of him on the depth chart because he wants to be "The Man". With a solid performer on the roster like Emmitt, I can only wonder if this is Jones' opportunity to finally "get it".

From all accounts, Emmitt is providing an excellent example to the other RB's with his workout habits and work ethic. We all know that Shipp and Anderson are benefiting, perhaps Jones will as well.

As much as I like Shipp, I still think Jones is better suited with tools to succeed in the NFL. It's all a matter of attitude in my opinion, and I hope Jones does indeed "get it" and make us a better ballclub this year.

I agree - seems that Jones was judged guilty before he should have been. He did well, rushing for more than 200 yards against Seatttle before he suffered a high ankle strain. He would give us three good backs if we keep him. Phinius

 

[WizardOfAz]

What about this w/Jones:

Given that he was "cleared" by the Scottsdale PD and should be healthy as the season starts, what do we do with him?

At this point, I do not think there will be a trade for him. If they were going to do that, it would have been done by now.

I don't think he should be cut on June 1st. His cap number is fairly insignificant, so there would be nothing gained.

I suggest we hold on to him for insurance. If one of our running backs goes down, he is a servicable backup. If another team loses a running back, I think we could deal him for a pick.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by AzKarl
I have a friend who lived in an apartment complex where several Cardinals live. He was told that Thomas Jones put his hand through a wall in his apartment over frustration about his playing time and deteriorating relationship with the team. He then concocted the answering the phone incident hoping his pay would not be docked in an accident versus the self inflicted injury. To TJ's chagrin the Cardinals still docked his pay because they knew the real story. Doesn't anyone feel that Jones would have filed a grievance over docked pay with the union if it was indeed a legitimate accident? The fact that he did not speaks volumes.

Someone posted that here not long after the injury(I forget who) and of course the barfight story came out quite a bit later.

I guess I worded my first post wrong, I'm not saying the police are wrong and the Cards are right I'm just literally asking what did the Cards THINK they knew that convinced them he was lying?

Did they think he got into a fight(which hadn't been publicized yet), or did they simply think he hit a wall and broke it and that was it and they knew all along he had nothing to do with the fight?

My line of questioning is, if the Cards knew he hit a wall and broke it, why didn't that come out, wouldn't the Cards have contacted the police and said "hey he wasn't in that fight he broke the hand doing this and we have the following proof?"

Maybe that's why the Jones thing is such a mess, he lied about how he did it, a guy lied about Jones attacking him in a bar, the Cards are caught in the middle refusing to pay him, so now in the end everyone has at one point been labelled a jerk in this. First the Cards, then Jones, now the guy who said Jones beat him up.

Bizarre story beginning to end. And of course it's entirely possible he did break it just as he said he did at this point nobody but his mom is going to believe it, but it COULD be true.

 

[RLakin]

Re: What about this w/Jones:

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
I don't think he should be cut on June 1st. His cap number is fairly insignificant, so there would be nothing gained.

I suggest we hold on to him for insurance. If one of our running backs goes down, he is a servicable backup. If another team loses a running back, I think we could deal him for a pick.

I agree. We saw this w/ Baltimore 2 years ago. The Ravens lost Jamal Lewis in training camp and were offering Denver a high draft pick in exchange for Mike Anderson. Denver declined, mainly because they did not to aid another contender in the same conference. Even the most optimistic of fans does not believe that the Cards will be contending next season, so a deal w/ Jones may be easier to swing. Now all they need is someone’s starting running back to go down. Minnesota’s came close this week.
Sorry, that’s kind of harsh.

 

[CardLogic]

Let's look at the known facts:

1) TJ broke his hand under questionable circumstances.

2) The Cardinals elected to not pay the remainder of his
contract for the year, due to the non-football related
injury.

3) The Cardinals organization no longer wants the services
Thomas Jones.

4) TJ has not been seen around the Cardinal complex since
the incident (breaking his hand).

That is all we know, and all we are likely to ever know. Now we all can assume whatever other scenarios we would like to but they won't change the facts (see above).

Given the above facts; one can extrapolate that TJ's tenure with the Cardinals is over. END OF STORY!....
Except of course, the speculation of what the Cardinals might be able to swing in a trade deal.