Kinda glad we didn't get James Harden

[Phrazbit]

Wow... just wow.



I cannot imagine how polarized this board would be if he were in a Suns uniform. It would be ugly.

 

[Chaz]

I could not watch more than a minute of that.

He is saving himself for the offensive end. LOL

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, pretty lazy on defense for sure!

 

[AzStevenCal]

I watched the first half of that video and I kept having Hakim Warrick flashbacks. No big surprise though, I've been harping on his play for awhile. I just don't get why people think he's a top 10 player. He's one of only a handful of players that can elevate a bad team to a decent team but that's about all he can do. He's not capable of being the star on a very good team IMO.

Steve

 

[Bufalay]

During his last year in OKC I remember him doing a good job defensively against Kobe Bryant in the playoffs. I guess he has different priorities in Houston, but he's certainly capable of playing good D.

 

[Superbone]

During his last year in OKC I remember him doing a good job defensively against Kobe Bryant in the playoffs. I guess he has different priorities in Houston, but he's certainly capable of playing good D.

Maybe World Peace knocked the defense out of him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

During his last year in OKC I remember him doing a good job defensively against Kobe Bryant in the playoffs. I guess he has different priorities in Houston, but he's certainly capable of playing good D.

He was fighting with a defensive specialist for playing time so he put forth the effort. He was also an excellent facilitator for that team. He had a role and played it to perfection. But Houston made him their star and he's been me, me, me ever since. You couldn't ask for a better 3rd or 4th wheel but I don't know if there is a worse player to build around than Harden.

Steve

 

[Shaggy]

Wow, never even knew he was that bad on D.

 

[Superbone]

He also frustrates me to no end with his flops on pretty darn every shot he takes.

 

[Cheesebeef]

he's definitely not a number one, but the idea that he's strictly a 3 or 4th option is a stretch. Offensively, not many guys can do what he can do, putting up 25/5/5. He's best suited as a #3, but he could be a really good 2 on a team with a bona-fide number 1. If Howard had any balls/offensive game, they'd be a pretty great compliment to each other, but both guys seem to be space cadets, thus they'll probably live in the land of one and done's for the duration of their run.

 

[Phrazbit]

That move he repeatedly displays where he literally steps out of his mans way, then lazily swipes at the ball as his man blows past him towards the hoop, has got to be the most appalling defense I've ever seen.

Its true though, he HAS shown the ability to play quality defense, but Steve is right. Houston turned the reigns of their offense to him, he has no accountability on D and no one to take his minutes should he fail.

Mentally, he does not seem like the kind of guy to lead a team to glory. Taking plays off, all the flopping, his line about him and Dwight being all that matters for Houston and everyone else is role players. I mean... I'm sure a TON of stars feel that way but you cannot say that. I'd think between him selling teammates out on D and then marginalizing them in the press, he probably has a lot of dudes in that locker room who do not like him very much.

 

[sunsfan88]

During his last year in OKC I remember him doing a good job defensively against Kobe Bryant in the playoffs. I guess he has different priorities in Houston, but he's certainly capable of playing good D.

He's definitely capable of being a very good defender, he just doesn't put the effort into it because he puts all his effort on the offensive end.

He's athletic enough and definitely strong enough to be a good defender, it's just desire. Same with Amare.

 

[HooverDam]

During his last year in OKC I remember him doing a good job defensively against Kobe Bryant in the playoffs. I guess he has different priorities in Houston, but he's certainly capable of playing good D.

He's actually a terrific defender, if he cares to be. Your memory of him sticking to Kobe is accurate. In OKC his role was to score some off the bench, play D and hustle.

In Houston they've told him to be the go to scorer, and clearly don't force him to play D or punish him when he doesn't, its unfortunate.

He could be an excellent 2 way player if he put the effort in, but he doesn't.

 

[Phrazbit]

He's actually a terrific defender, if he cares to be. Your memory of him sticking to Kobe is accurate. In OKC his role was to score some off the bench, play D and hustle.

In Houston they've told him to be the go to scorer, and clearly don't force him to play D or punish him when he doesn't, its unfortunate.

He could be an excellent 2 way player if he put the effort in, but he doesn't.

His lack of awareness when defending on the weak side is so atrocious though that I kinda wonder if he is okay defensively when his man has the ball and he KNOWS that guy is going to shoot, like he did when guarding Kobe, but if his man does not have the ball, he is a space cadet. I'd like to see some of those old games and see if he was active away from the ball or not.

 

[TRW]

He is just a strange, strange dude. Not Metta World Peace or Rodman strange, but he is out there.

A really good player but not worth the money he's making IMO.

 

[AzStevenCal]

he's definitely not a number one, but the idea that he's strictly a 3 or 4th option is a stretch. Offensively, not many guys can do what he can do, putting up 25/5/5. He's best suited as a #3, but he could be a really good 2 on a team with a bona-fide number 1. If Howard had any balls/offensive game, they'd be a pretty great compliment to each other, but both guys seem to be space cadets, thus they'll probably live in the land of one and done's for the duration of their run.

I'm not so sure. I think he's a number 1 on a bad team and a number 3 or 4 on a great team. Until last season I just assumed he could be a great number 2 but now I have doubts. Maybe he was just paired with the wrong kind of star (Howard) but a catch and shoot wing player that played solid defense would have made Houston much better than Harden did.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not so sure. I think he's a number 1 on a bad team and a number 3 or 4 on a great team. Until last season I just assumed he could be a great number 2 but now I have doubts. Maybe he was just paired with the wrong kind of star (Howard) but a catch and shoot wing player that played solid defense would have made Houston much better than Harden did.

Steve

how is that possible? He's a number 1 on a 54 win team... in the West. That right there shows he's a #1 on a good team.

 

[Ronin]

He's the Michael Crabtree of the NBA. A really good number 2 player on the team, but Harden leaves much more to be desired.

 

[AzStevenCal]

how is that possible? He's a number 1 on a 54 win team... in the West. That right there shows he's a #1 on a good team.

When you put it that way, it makes sense. OTOH, I've read multiple posts (here and elsewhere) making the point that the Suns were a bad team (or a below average team). Houston was loaded with talent and had pretty good luck as far as injuries go yet they are a "good team". They only won 5 more games than us and we were missing one of our stars for half the season. I'm struggling with the labels and the math.

Maybe Harden was the number 1 guy on that team but he was paired with a top 5 player in Howard so it's up for discussion. Also, the team was loaded with talent besides those two and they still couldn't get out of the first round.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

I think he can be the number one on a decent team... he was last year. But I dont see how that team can win a title unless it surrounds him with some ego-less defensive studs.

I do think they're a candidate to be a near 50 win, non playoff team this year though. Despite Harden's bizarre contention that the only guys that matter on their team are him and Dwight, they lost a fair amount of talent and there is not a lot of margin for error out west.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think he can be the number one on a decent team... he was last year. But I dont see how that team can win a title unless it surrounds him with some ego-less defensive studs.

I do think they're a candidate to be a near 50 win, non playoff team this year though. Despite Harden's bizarre contention that the only guys that matter on their team are him and Dwight, they lost a fair amount of talent and there is not a lot of margin for error out west.

I think he's a rare talent in his own way. Surround him with 9 players on a talent level similar to a PJ Tucker and he can drag them into the playoffs. But upgrade that talent at every position and I don't think they fare much better than a trip to the postseason. I put him alongside players such as Allen Iverson and Dominique Wilkens. Tremendous individual offensive players but the stars have to align perfectly for it to mean anything other than a quick exit from the playoffs.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

I think he's a rare talent in his own way. Surround him with 9 players on a talent level similar to a PJ Tucker and he can drag them into the playoffs. But upgrade that talent at every position and I don't think they fare much better than a trip to the postseason. I put him alongside players such as Allen Iverson and Dominique Wilkens. Tremendous individual offensive players but the stars have to align perfectly for it to mean anything other than a quick exit from the playoffs.

Steve

Those are very fair comparisons. Iverson was a guy who put up some misleading defensive stats. Frequently among the league leaders in steals but he was a terrible defender, who's gambling for steals probably led to about twice as many uncontested layups as they did breaks the other direction.

 

[Cheesebeef]

When you put it that way, it makes sense. OTOH, I've read multiple posts (here and elsewhere) making the point that the Suns were a bad team (or a below average team).

you've seen that from BC... and pretty much no one else. I don't put much stock into what he says and I don't think you do either when it comes to this team.

Houston was loaded with talent and had pretty good luck as far as injuries go yet they are a "good team". They only won 5 more games than us and we were missing one of our stars for half the season. I'm struggling with the labels and the math.

Maybe Harden was the number 1 guy on that team but he was paired with a top 5 player in Howard so it's up for discussion. Also, the team was loaded with talent besides those two and they still couldn't get out of the first round.

Steve

Howard hasn't been a top 5 player in a long time. He's the best C in the league, but that's not saying much in a league devoid of centers.

 

[AzStevenCal]

you've seen that from BC... and pretty much no one else.

So you're saying that one person here and one or two people on RealGM isn't enough to support my case? Okay, so I don't buy the idea that we were a bad team either but I'm not really sure where the line is for "good team". In terms of contending teams, I don't believe that Harden is capable of being the number 1 player.

Howard hasn't been a top 5 player in a long time. He's the best C in the league, but that's not saying much in a league devoid of centers.

I just looked up his stats. I must admit, I was expecting better numbers. So, you're right, he's not a top 5 player any more and not even the best center in the league last season.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

No need for discussion.

I didn't see it posted, so I will.

"I'm the best all-around basketball player in the NBA," said Harden.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234668/Harden-Im-The-Best-All-Around-Player-In-The-NBA